Reversing Type 2 Diabetes
Discussion
Badda said:
zygalski said:
I don't remember government advice suggesting a high carb diet.
I do remember regular advice with regards to eating a balanced diet, as I mentioned before.
There was a massive low-fat push in the 80s. Guess what replaced the fat? I believe that’s in part for the crisis, that and cheap crap food now. I do remember regular advice with regards to eating a balanced diet, as I mentioned before.
They're all overweight, don't exercise, drink regularly & some of them smoke.
Clearly we should hold the government responsible.
Phil. said:
If they eat processed food containing added sugar and goodness knows what else, I expect they will exceed even the government’s (too high) daily carb recommendation.
Eating carbs become addictive so many increase their intake over time, thus the cycle toward T2 accelerates and the number of T2’s increases too.
The original question answered was why over the last 20 years are there increasing cases of T2 and it is because people eat more carbs now than before.
300g of carbs is about 1200kcal, no? If a moderately active male ate that and another 1200kcal of balanced food he would not* get fat and would be unlikely** to get T2.Eating carbs become addictive so many increase their intake over time, thus the cycle toward T2 accelerates and the number of T2’s increases too.
The original question answered was why over the last 20 years are there increasing cases of T2 and it is because people eat more carbs now than before.
The issue is not carbs, it's the volume.
*Assuming no other (rare) metabolic disorders.
**All things being equal, if those carbs are entirely sugar he will.
And, yes, a few T2 diabetics aren't fat. But they're the exception.
Perhaps interestingly for some, really it’s of little wonder that many type 2 diabetics carry on with seemingly little regard for their condition. The general prognosis is that they have a chronic and progressive disease that will get worse and will lead to complications. I would think many take the view that may as well do what they want while they still draw breath. In fact I know this to be the case.
Of course this is exactly what the pharmaceutical companies need - a steady supply of lifetime customers. Healthy people are non profitable. Myself being one example who used freewill and critical thinking to put their T2DM into remission. A drug company’s worst enemy
Of course this is exactly what the pharmaceutical companies need - a steady supply of lifetime customers. Healthy people are non profitable. Myself being one example who used freewill and critical thinking to put their T2DM into remission. A drug company’s worst enemy
Bill said:
300g of carbs is about 1200kcal, no? If a moderately active male ate that and another 1200kcal of balanced food he would not* get fat and would be unlikely** to get T2.
The issue is not carbs, it's the volume.
*Assuming no other (rare) metabolic disorders.
**All things being equal, if those carbs are entirely sugar he will.
And, yes, a few T2 diabetics aren't fat. But they're the exception.
Deleted. Can’t be bothered.The issue is not carbs, it's the volume.
*Assuming no other (rare) metabolic disorders.
**All things being equal, if those carbs are entirely sugar he will.
And, yes, a few T2 diabetics aren't fat. But they're the exception.
Bill said:
300g of carbs is about 1200kcal, no? If a moderately active male ate that and another 1200kcal of balanced food he would not* get fat and would be unlikely** to get T2.
The issue is not carbs, it's the volume.
*Assuming no other (rare) metabolic disorders.
**All things being equal, if those carbs are entirely sugar he will.
And, yes, a few T2 diabetics aren't fat. But they're the exception.
2400 kcal/day is a 500kcal surplus for most people. Unless your list of wrong assumptions includes a 10km every day, they will get fat on that. And 50% calories from carbs is pretty much exactly the modern government advice level that has led to our epidemics of obesity and diabetes.The issue is not carbs, it's the volume.
*Assuming no other (rare) metabolic disorders.
**All things being equal, if those carbs are entirely sugar he will.
And, yes, a few T2 diabetics aren't fat. But they're the exception.
It’s been pretty much conclusively proven that total calories are what make people fat. T2 diabetes is a different matter, but most fat people simply overeat and have done for many years.
Not to say that high carb diets aren’t a real problem. They are. Mostly because they make it extremely easy to consume hundreds of junk calories.
Not to say that high carb diets aren’t a real problem. They are. Mostly because they make it extremely easy to consume hundreds of junk calories.
Kenny Powers said:
They’re overweight because they’re diabetic.
But I have a feeling this will turn into yet another Dunning-Kruger driven argument...
Although yeah they shouldn’t really be drinking, and ideally no one should smoke.
Not true - the only 3 people I personally know who have it developed T2 after years of being overweight & leading sedentary lifestyles.But I have a feeling this will turn into yet another Dunning-Kruger driven argument...
Although yeah they shouldn’t really be drinking, and ideally no one should smoke.
I'm sure other thin people who are active, never touch a drop & never smoke develop type 2 diabetes, in much the same was as some people who never smoked a fag in their lives get lung cancer.
But these are a tiny minority.
Growing up as part of the Playstation Generation has far more to do with people in their 40's & 50's developing T2 diabetes, than some mystical genetic predisposition.
Why the sudden increase in type 2 diabetes in the last few decades?
It's not rocket science. People are less active now than in the 1970's, eat too much food they know is bad for them & often also drink too much.
Kenny Powers said:
Perhaps interestingly for some, really it’s of little wonder that many type 2 diabetics carry on with seemingly little regard for their condition. The general prognosis is that they have a chronic and progressive disease that will get worse and will lead to complications. I would think many take the view that may as well do what they want while they still draw breath. In fact I know this to be the case.
Of course this is exactly what the pharmaceutical companies need - a steady supply of lifetime customers. Healthy people are non profitable. Myself being one example who used freewill and critical thinking to put their T2DM into remission. A drug company’s worst enemy
Good for you, but most who have T2 have years of overeating behind them. The message is that this is unhealthy, and the consequences of carrying on are pretty inevitable. Of course this is exactly what the pharmaceutical companies need - a steady supply of lifetime customers. Healthy people are non profitable. Myself being one example who used freewill and critical thinking to put their T2DM into remission. A drug company’s worst enemy
Predisposition to poor insulin sensitivity plus excessive carbohydrate leads to insulin resistance which leads to obesity and diabetes.
Generally speaking, diabetics are fat because of insulin resistance coupled with blissfully unaware carbohydrate consumption which made them fat and diabetic. It’s a very common misconception that being obese gave them diabetes. The two are inextricably linked, and are both symptoms of metabolic syndrome.
Most people don’t understand this because they don’t have a basic grasp of endocrinology. But they’ll argue that they know best anyway. I won’t be drawn into this debate again
Generally speaking, diabetics are fat because of insulin resistance coupled with blissfully unaware carbohydrate consumption which made them fat and diabetic. It’s a very common misconception that being obese gave them diabetes. The two are inextricably linked, and are both symptoms of metabolic syndrome.
Most people don’t understand this because they don’t have a basic grasp of endocrinology. But they’ll argue that they know best anyway. I won’t be drawn into this debate again
this is a 3 hour podcast, for those interested details below, not watched it all myself.
some interesting chat (as always) on nutrition with JOe and guests
PowerfulJRE Streamed live 17 hours ago
Dom D’Agostino, Ph.D., is an assistant professor in the Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology at the University of South Florida Morsani College of Medicine, and a senior research scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition (IHMC). Layne Norton is a renowned prep/physique coach and pro-natural bodybuilder/powerlifter with a PhD in Nutritional Sciences.
some interesting chat (as always) on nutrition with JOe and guests
Joe Rogan Experience #1176 - Dom D'Agostino & Layne Norton
https://youtu.be/u93oh9kC-rUPowerfulJRE Streamed live 17 hours ago
Dom D’Agostino, Ph.D., is an assistant professor in the Department of Molecular Pharmacology and Physiology at the University of South Florida Morsani College of Medicine, and a senior research scientist at the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition (IHMC). Layne Norton is a renowned prep/physique coach and pro-natural bodybuilder/powerlifter with a PhD in Nutritional Sciences.
Edited by Halb on Monday 8th October 10:37
Bill said:
300g of carbs is about 1200kcal, no? If a moderately active male ate that and another 1200kcal of balanced food he would not* get fat and would be unlikely** to get T2.
The issue is not carbs, it's the volume.
Do you mean ‘volume of carbs’ or something else?The issue is not carbs, it's the volume.
I disagree that it’s not the carbs that results in a lot of people gaining weight. Anyone with insulin resistance (IR) will gain weight if they eat too many carbs, and nowadays there is easy access to food loaded with carbs. Most people haven’t a clue what they are eating but carbs taste nice and are addictive so they eat more than they should. Then over time their IR worsens and so they move ever faster towards T2 whilst putting on more weight, particularly around their organs which only exacerbates the situation. What other explanation do you have for the exponential increase inT2 across the western world in the past 20 years?
I have read much of Tim Noakes work and taken on board the evidence he uses to substantiate his theories, much of which is now being taken on board by society and even the NHS because it produces results. By results I mean generally healthier people. I am therefore reasonably convinced of his arguments in relation to carb consumption which begin pre-birth, all the way through to T2 and it’s ‘reversal’. I am yet to find much evidence to the contrary but welcome sight of it if it exists?
As a vet nurse I can relate better to dogs and cats!!
They have shown in dogs that it is not being fat that causes them to have diabetes, however it does make stabilising their diabetes harder if they are overweight (especially as they are likely to have other health conditions exacerbated by the obesity) Diabetes is very occasionally triggered by hormonal changes in an entire b
h, sometimes if caught quickly spaying will in effect properly reverse the diabetes (I guess like gestational diabetes in pregnant women) this is rare though so usually the spaying will just help stabilise it as their seasons will mess with glucose levels.
Cats however will have diabetes triggered by obesity. Their slight advantage is they have the chance to reverse it (or go into remission) if they slim down (if caught quickly enough). The diets designed for cats is protein based and removal of cereal (due to cats being obligate carnivores)
However slim cats can develop diabetes, for them there is very rarely remission only managing it.
Not sure if this adds anything to the conversation but thought there were some interesting comparisons!
They have shown in dogs that it is not being fat that causes them to have diabetes, however it does make stabilising their diabetes harder if they are overweight (especially as they are likely to have other health conditions exacerbated by the obesity) Diabetes is very occasionally triggered by hormonal changes in an entire b
h, sometimes if caught quickly spaying will in effect properly reverse the diabetes (I guess like gestational diabetes in pregnant women) this is rare though so usually the spaying will just help stabilise it as their seasons will mess with glucose levels. Cats however will have diabetes triggered by obesity. Their slight advantage is they have the chance to reverse it (or go into remission) if they slim down (if caught quickly enough). The diets designed for cats is protein based and removal of cereal (due to cats being obligate carnivores)
However slim cats can develop diabetes, for them there is very rarely remission only managing it.
Not sure if this adds anything to the conversation but thought there were some interesting comparisons!
My glucose numbers are continuing to drop even further, ten months into keto. Wakeup fasting glucose usually starts with a 4, and never goes above 5.5 even postprandial. My last A1c test was 33 but will probably be around 30 or less next time around.
Basically I’m no longer diabetic. No doubt I’m probably still carbohydrate intolerant, but I’ll never find out or care, because carbs suck balls anyway. Cured against all expectations by doing the polar opposite of all official advice, and eating whatever I like, all the time. And to think I was told it was a chromic degenerative disease with no hope beyond taking pills and/or insulin for the rest of my life. Laughable
Basically I’m no longer diabetic. No doubt I’m probably still carbohydrate intolerant, but I’ll never find out or care, because carbs suck balls anyway. Cured against all expectations by doing the polar opposite of all official advice, and eating whatever I like, all the time. And to think I was told it was a chromic degenerative disease with no hope beyond taking pills and/or insulin for the rest of my life. Laughable
Interested to read the entire thread last night; some thought provoking debate and the low carb/sufficient protein approach makes initial sense to me as lay person. Just one aspect that's either not been mentioned or that I didn't pick up on, is the likely effect of increasing dietary fats on the vascular system? Is there not a corresponding impact on cholesterol etc? Or is the thinking that more effective fat metabolisation counters this?
Typically, total cholesterol may rise, but the cholesterol profile will improve. Higher HDL and lower LDL. Additionally, triglycerides will be reduced (improved).
Further, cholesterol has been erroneously vilified since the 1950s. It’s absolutely crucial to human life. Every cell in the body requires cholesterol. It’s so critical that the body makes its own. The artery problem occurs essentially where too much of it appears in the arteries attempting to heal chronic oxidative stress and inflammation, which is much less a factor when eating a diet of real food and all-natural fats.
That’s the simplest and shortest answer I’m able to give. If you’re inclined, Cholesterol Clarity and Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore are great books worth reading. Another absolutely fabulous and essential read more focused on reversing T2DM is The Diabetes Code by Jason Fung.
Further, cholesterol has been erroneously vilified since the 1950s. It’s absolutely crucial to human life. Every cell in the body requires cholesterol. It’s so critical that the body makes its own. The artery problem occurs essentially where too much of it appears in the arteries attempting to heal chronic oxidative stress and inflammation, which is much less a factor when eating a diet of real food and all-natural fats.
That’s the simplest and shortest answer I’m able to give. If you’re inclined, Cholesterol Clarity and Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore are great books worth reading. Another absolutely fabulous and essential read more focused on reversing T2DM is The Diabetes Code by Jason Fung.
Pupp said:
Interested to read the entire thread last night; some thought provoking debate and the low carb/sufficient protein approach makes initial sense to me as lay person. Just one aspect that's either not been mentioned or that I didn't pick up on, is the likely effect of increasing dietary fats on the vascular system? Is there not a corresponding impact on cholesterol etc? Or is the thinking that more effective fat metabolisation counters this?
The mental imagery you have of the fats you eat "blocking" your arteries is plain wrong. Your body just doesn't work like that. The same goes for the "cholesterol" in foods like eggs. Dietary fat, "cholesterol", and red meat have all been vilified to promote other food products, mostly sugar and "vegetable" oils, simply for profit. This miseducation has gone on since the 1940s, and has become such "common knowledge" that it is difficult to even contemplate otherwise. But facts are stubborn things.If you like reading, try Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz, Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes, and The Great Cholesterol Con by Dr Malcolm Kendrick. Or try the diet yourself. Tell your doctor what you are doing and ask for blood tests before and after three months to see what happens; most will be happy to. It's difficult not to open your mind when you lose weight, feel better, and see the improvement in your lipid profile.
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