Fitness gurus on the juice...
Discussion
MC Bodge said:
There must surely be an element of wanting to look big/powerful/dominant for some/many who build up a muscular physique.
Lots of bbers have self-esteem issues, but then so do lots who take up fighting arts. Initially at least.MC Bodge said:
He is correct regarding the "fighting". There are plenty of skilled, trained fighters (strikers/grapplers, both) out there who do not look imposing, but are very capable as that is what they have trained for.
Bulk and strength are handy for very short scraps and doorwork. Against a trained figher who knows what they're doing if it goes more than 30 secs the big guy will lose. Muscle makes you sloooow and only grants strength in the planes of movement you lift in. Generally as LT says it's all show and no go, though why he said it is beyond me. 
MC Bodge said:
It'd be like fighting the Death Star, that's Emanuel Yarbrough, I recall him from the early UFC. Japan loves freak fights. Bob Sapp is another good one, he makes other heavyweights look like lightweights.
https://youtu.be/dbpJ1pr_wG8
popeyewhite said:
Bulk and strength are handy for very short scraps and doorwork. Against a trained figher who knows what they're doing if it goes more than 30 secs the big guy will lose. Muscle makes you sloooow and only grants strength in the planes of movement you lift in. Generally as LT says it's all show and no go, though why he said it is beyond me.
The problem with these kinds of discussions is that everyone immediately starts thinking about extremes - the 120kg bodybuilder that’s never done any martial arts, for example. The real question is whether anyone seriously doubts that if the average bloke gained 5-10kg of muscle, he would not be quite a lot harder to kill. I don’t think anyone doubts that.
I trained with some huge guys that were less good at grappling and sparring than I was but I would never want to fight. Once you’ve been kicked or punched by someone who weighs 100kg + of mostly muscle, a few times, you understand why there are narrow weight classes in fighting sports.
Halb said:
MC Bodge said:
We have gone off topic quite a bit here....
All I would say is don't assume that big muscles necessarily make a good brawler.
For those who haven't experienced it, don't underestimate the level of skill, resilience, speed and leverage/strength of an accomplished grappler, whatever their size.
That's because some tired, drunk mentalist came in chatting about fighting!All I would say is don't assume that big muscles necessarily make a good brawler.
For those who haven't experienced it, don't underestimate the level of skill, resilience, speed and leverage/strength of an accomplished grappler, whatever their size.
Only speaking for myself, I know looking at muscles which look for show and which can go. I used to wrestle, and I was normally (though not always) the biggest. My strength/mass could be stalemated by the best in my gym, sometimes beaten, but I was a rookie and they were top shoot wrestlers. I only had to learn a little bit to start sliding the rule up the possibilities of outcome. All combat sports people need to look into strength training. It's a slide rule and you have to maximise your time as to where to spend it. YOutuber Ramsey Dewey has a few excellent videos where he mentions this I think. I also watch JUggernaut since he's a former powerlifter moving into BJJ as a competitive sport.
Martial Artists are TERRIBLE Athletes!
Ramsey Dewey
https://youtu.be/G4_L7cK1YZ8
How Heavy Do You Need To Lift for BJJ? | JTSstrength.com
Juggernaut Training Systems
https://youtu.be/pof8TcpRbZY
I've read steroids can make people irritable though..
Edited by lord trumpton on Friday 31st January 11:49
mcelliott said:
Have you seen the state the average bb gets into trying to tie his shoe laces, heart attack central!!
My training partner when i was a kid had to have and extra long comb made as his arm wouldnt bend enough to get close to his barnet LTs troll has made this thread even funnier
lord trumpton said:
As an avid boxer I often find myslef smiling inside at these 'bodybuilders'
Walking around with the chest out, shoulders back and a tough guy look.
From a 'hardness' perspective if you like, many would associate a muscle bound gym rat as being a better brawler.
To me its just like sticking spoilers and bodykits on a non performance car - look the part but its just an illusion.
At boxing you meet/train with people who are the nicest, most placid and unassuming people you could wish to meet - the type many would just think 'they don't look much to me' or whom gym monkeys would scoff at. Yet get a pair of wraps and gloves on and these wimps would eat them alive in seconds and spit them out.
Whats the point in spending all the time and money looking big and beefy but inside being no different, no toucher, no better fighter or gassing out after 30 seconds of swinging punches?
Bodybuilders are maggots (well a lot are haha)
Had to laugh at the start of your post "As as avid boxer!" Walking around with the chest out, shoulders back and a tough guy look.
From a 'hardness' perspective if you like, many would associate a muscle bound gym rat as being a better brawler.
To me its just like sticking spoilers and bodykits on a non performance car - look the part but its just an illusion.
At boxing you meet/train with people who are the nicest, most placid and unassuming people you could wish to meet - the type many would just think 'they don't look much to me' or whom gym monkeys would scoff at. Yet get a pair of wraps and gloves on and these wimps would eat them alive in seconds and spit them out.
Whats the point in spending all the time and money looking big and beefy but inside being no different, no toucher, no better fighter or gassing out after 30 seconds of swinging punches?
Bodybuilders are maggots (well a lot are haha)
It reminded me of all the builders/ trades I had on site that always start with this line when I first meet them, as it they have to tell me how 'hard' they are!!! Always makes me laugh (out loud)
ORD said:
The real question is whether anyone seriously doubts that if the average bloke gained 5-10kg of muscle, he would not be quite a lot harder to kill. I don’t think anyone doubts that.
I can categorically say it's untrue. He would punch, if he knew how to punch properly, with a bit more weight behind the punch. He would be just as easy 'to kill'.
ORD said:
popeyewhite said:
I can categorically say it's untrue. He would punch, if he knew how to punch properly, with a bit more weight behind the punch. He would be just as easy 'to kill'.
You don’t think being heavier and stronger offers an advantage in a fight? 
Halb said:
rope-a-dope isn't a great strategy for long term health 
On a serious note - sadly not. Or just getting whacked upside the head in general. It's a paradox of the current woke/ H+S conscious society we live in that the popularity of boxing has increased whereas schools are banning heading the football below certain ages because of associated health risks.
popeyewhite said:
5-10 kgs won't make any real difference except to the perception of the opponent. Fighting is a sport where strength doesn't really play a part beyond the fact it's an element of fitness. As another poster has inferred there's the odd freak, but generally speed and technique beats weight and strength in any fighting sport. The classic brains vs brawn (fitness vs strength if you like) clash is the Rumble in the Jungle.
Why do you think boxing and all other fighting sports have weight classes?popeyewhite said:
Halb said:
rope-a-dope isn't a great strategy for long term health
On a serious note - sadly not. Or just getting whacked upside the head in general. It's a paradox of the current woke/ H+S conscious society we live in that the popularity of boxing has increased whereas schools are banning heading the football below certain ages because of associated health risks.
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