Low testosterone

[Louis Balfour]

Scabutz said:

Louis Balfour said:

272BHP said:

I would guess that most have already gone down the gym and healthy eating route.

I know some people who had some success with Boron but these were individuals with borderline T levels and a high SHBG which was crushing their free T levels.

Boron has been known in some individuals to push SHBG down thus freeing up testosterone.

Sure. I wasn’t casting aspersions upon people’s efforts. However I do know a couple of people personally whose test issues would probably be improved with fewer calories and more regular lifting of weights.

I discussed this with my endo. She said if people are on the low end of normal and overweight and lazy they can make improvements and boost it a bit, but if you are out the bottom end of normal then there is 9 times out of 10 a medical reason and you need medication and no amount of diet and exercise will fix it.

Agreed. I suspect that there are a lot of marginal candidates that could do more though. I bumped into one of the chaps I mentioned earlier, at the gym today. His gut entered the gym well ahead of him. Whatever his level he is not helping himself.

[272BHP]

I thought it might be beneficial for the thread to document the unscheduled blood test I did this week.

I took advantage of a New Year 20% off voucher with Medichecks for a male hormone blood test this week because I wanted to see what good looks like on paper as I feel particularly good these last few weeks.

Current protocol:

Test - 50mg twice a week.
HCG - 300iu twice a week.
Exemestane - 1/8 a tab twice a week (tricky to split this accurately but I do my best!)

P5P - 100mg a day, I have used this in the past but not consistently, these past 2 months I have taken it every day in the hope of pushing my Prolactin down which is always above range.

Results were back today:

Total T - 29nmol/L
E2. - 120 pmol/L
SHBG. - 25 nmol/L
Free T. - 0.760 nmol/L
Prolactin - 166 mIU/L

Most of these levels were roughly as expected. SHBG is usually mid 30s so that was definitely below usual and that has subsequently elevated my free T. Prolactin was a pleasant surprise, I haven't seen it in the 100s before so I am guessing the P5P might well be doing it's job.

Crucially all other health markers are good on this protocol - I check everything.

How exactly do I feel? particularly good, there is a sweet spot that I am definitely in at the moment, assured, confident, energetic and with a steady gaze and a feeling that I can tackle anything. When everything is in a good place hormonally then there is what I have heard some people describe as a purr at the back of your throat - I know exactly what they mean.

[xx99xx]

Big Rod said:

So I'm sure this will be beneficial and obviously the results will take a time to manifest but short of going down the pharmaceuticals route, (which I'd rather treat as a last resort), is there anything else I should be considering before picking up a phone to a health professional?

Thanks in advance.

You're right to treat pharmaceuticals as a last resort, but I'd always say the first step should be a blood test. The results will determine what you need to focus on to treat your symptoms. E.g. not much point focusing on purely raising total T if it's already high and estrogen/SHGB is actually your problem.

Your GP may arrange this if you're lucky but otherwise the private tests are pretty easy and not too expensive. GPs will usually recommend lifestyle changes first anyway and say come back in 6 months if no change.

[popeyewhite]

272BHP said:

I thought it might be beneficial for the thread to document the unscheduled blood test I did this week.

I took advantage of a New Year 20% off voucher with Medichecks for a male hormone blood test this week because I wanted to see what good looks like on paper as I feel particularly good these last few weeks.

Current protocol:

Test - 50mg twice a week.
HCG - 300iu twice a week.
Exemestane - 1/8 a tab twice a week (tricky to split this accurately but I do my best!)

P5P - 100mg a day, I have used this in the past but not consistently, these past 2 months I have taken it every day in the hope of pushing my Prolactin down which is always above range.

Results were back today:

Total T - 29nmol/L
E2. - 120 pmol/L
SHBG. - 25 nmol/L
Free T. - 0.760 nmol/L
Prolactin - 166 mIU/L

Most of these levels were roughly as expected. SHBG is usually mid 30s so that was definitely below usual and that has subsequently elevated my free T. Prolactin was a pleasant surprise, I haven't seen it in the 100s before so I am guessing the P5P might well be doing it's job.

Crucially all other health markers are good on this protocol - I check everything.

How exactly do I feel? particularly good, there is a sweet spot that I am definitely in at the moment, assured, confident, energetic and with a steady gaze and a feeling that I can tackle anything. When everything is in a good place hormonally then there is what I have heard some people describe as a purr at the back of your throat - I know exactly what they mean.

Well done, it's good to see someone regaining a feeling of wellbeing off a modest dose of test. Still a bit more than normal but not much. What do you think is raising prolactin?

[272BHP]

popeyewhite said:

Well done, it's good to see someone regaining a feeling of wellbeing off a modest dose of test. Still a bit more than normal but not much. What do you think is raising prolactin?

My prolactin has always come in high and is routinely between 400 - 800. I train pretty regularly and sometimes quite hard as well so I have always put it down to that.

If I do not train for 3-4 days before bloods then I can get it down to the 250 - 300 range. Never seen it as low as 166 though - I also trained hard 2 days before the test this time as well.

This was just one snapshot though and the jury is still out on the P5P and I need a few more data points to confirm it is knocking the prolactin down. Others have reported similar results though so I am hopeful.

[simonwhite2000]

xx99xx said:

simonwhite2000 said:

New here. Two lots of tests recently 3 weeks apart. First time test and free test second time just test.
TEST 6.4
FREE TEST 0.139

TEST 6.8

Being referred to endo but like many, debating if to go on TRT and if I did I would just go private I think. I've had gyno 5 years ago that was surgically removed but worried TRT could encourage the gyno again

What caused the gyno 5 years ago? Assume they did blood tests then, including estrogen?

T in the 6's isn't great, but SHBG would also be useful for you to know.

If you have symptoms and are generally struggling and can afford to go private, then it's a no brainer.

So I had my appointment with the endo yesterday at St Helens hospital. The dr was a fairly sound guy but it was a frustrating experience - I had two rounds of bloods end of Nov 23 early Dec 23 and now they want to do another round 'just to be sure'. Anyway, I am having to have another round of bloods done and go back in 3 months. Only reason I am hanging in there is they definitely are going to do an MRI to try and see if its a pituitary gland issue or not. Plus if there is anything else funky going on upstairs outside of this issue it might get picked up so never a bad thing to have a head MRI.

Anyway, the guy said if the 3rd bloods are again in a similar range we can move forward with TRT. Post MRI and feedback I have decided to go private anyway given there is more choice on the solution but always worth seeing what the NHS offer. Has anyone ever been offered enanthate of the NHS or is it gel and sus only?

I was asked previously in here what my SHBG was - 25.1 as I saw the full readout on the screen. They said a normal range is 12 to 52 which seems like a typical NHS range - wide.

I need to look into SHBG more to understand how that fits in with my other results. Lots of learning still to do!

[Mojooo]

Where are people going for blood tests? Came across Optimale but some reviews saying the first test just draws you in for further paid stuff before you actually get a result.

[Scabutz]

Mojooo said:

Where are people going for blood tests? Came across Optimale but some reviews saying the first test just draws you in for further paid stuff before you actually get a result.

Plenty of places will do a T test. Medichecks, Forth, even saw an advert that Superdrug are doing them.

You prick a finger and squeeze some blood.

If you want treatment though most places will want the test repeated at their labs. At least that was my experience with NHS and differences between GP and Hospital

[xx99xx]

All mine were via NHS GP. The private route doesn't necessarily drag you in for repeats unless you want to use it for private treatment where the private endo will want to do another test. A private blood test is just that, a test of your blood. What you do with the results is up to you.

Via NHS you'll usually have 2 via the GP (if the first is low and they'll be a few weeks apart) then if both are low you'll get referred to an endo (unless you're unlucky and they say it's normal and send you on your way, disregarding your symptoms). Then XX months later when you get the endo appointment they'll want to run their own test so maybe another 2 lots to do then.

XX months later you'll get the follow up consultation to discuss the results. I've been down the NHS endo route several times and it still didn't result in any treatment. Got it from a GP in the end.

If you can afford it and symptoms are bad, go private!

[paddy1970]

Best to bin those plastic containers....

https://youtu.be/zN7oxGV0ASI?si=4HPxIBAWz-kbl68a

[CAH706]

I had my levels checked Oct 2022 as I was feeling tired, brain fog, lacking motivation and generally feeling weak in the gym compared to how I used to feel. Diet etc all good

My levels then were

Testosterone 13.9nmol/L
Free test 0.249 nmol/L
SHBG 41 nmol/L

I got a full check of everything via medichecks and they said that all was OK and in the normal range

I've had another test today (still have similar symptoms to before)with the following readings

Testosterone 19nmol/L
Free test 0.282 nmol/L
SHBG 58 nmol/L

This was a basic test done with Manual and they have said this is sub optimal.

The only difference diet wise to 20 22 is I haven't drunk alcohol for the last 4 weeks so hopefully a positive.

I'm going to get a more comprehensive test but anyone any thoughts? I don't feel terrible but definately below par to was what I did a few years back.

[xx99xx]

CAH706 said:

I had my levels checked Oct 2022 as I was feeling tired, brain fog, lacking motivation and generally feeling weak in the gym compared to how I used to feel. Diet etc all good

My levels then were

Testosterone 13.9nmol/L
Free test 0.249 nmol/L
SHBG 41 nmol/L

I got a full check of everything via medichecks and they said that all was OK and in the normal range

I've had another test today (still have similar symptoms to before)with the following readings

Testosterone 19nmol/L
Free test 0.282 nmol/L
SHBG 58 nmol/L

This was a basic test done with Manual and they have said this is sub optimal.

The only difference diet wise to 20 22 is I haven't drunk alcohol for the last 4 weeks so hopefully a positive.

I'm going to get a more comprehensive test but anyone any thoughts? I don't feel terrible but definately below par to was what I did a few years back.

SHBG is too high, hence the lower free T and probably hence the symptoms persist. Look at trying to lower SHBG naturally and see what happens.

[CAH706]

xx99xx said:

CAH706 said:

I had my levels checked Oct 2022 as I was feeling tired, brain fog, lacking motivation and generally feeling weak in the gym compared to how I used to feel. Diet etc all good

My levels then were

Testosterone 13.9nmol/L
Free test 0.249 nmol/L
SHBG 41 nmol/L

I got a full check of everything via medichecks and they said that all was OK and in the normal range

I've had another test today (still have similar symptoms to before)with the following readings

Testosterone 19nmol/L
Free test 0.282 nmol/L
SHBG 58 nmol/L

This was a basic test done with Manual and they have said this is sub optimal.

The only difference diet wise to 20 22 is I haven't drunk alcohol for the last 4 weeks so hopefully a positive.

I'm going to get a more comprehensive test but anyone any thoughts? I don't feel terrible but definately below par to was what I did a few years back.

SHBG is too high, hence the lower free T and probably hence the symptoms persist. Look at trying to lower SHBG naturally and see what happens.

Thanks.

A quick google suggests increasing protein, reducing alcohol and exercise are factors in lowering SHBG

I'll look in more detail as I'm currently not drinking, eating a high protein lower carb diet and exercising hard and often.

I wonder if the calorie defect in on to drop c.1 stone is the main factor influencing results.

[xx99xx]

CAH706 said:

Thanks.

A quick google suggests increasing protein, reducing alcohol and exercise are factors in lowering SHBG

I'll look in more detail as I'm currently not drinking, eating a high protein lower carb diet and exercising hard and often.

I wonder if the calorie defect in on to drop c.1 stone is the main factor influencing results.

I've done low carb (low calorie) before and it can certainly affect things. Not that I did blood tests or anything but I actually felt different (and not necessarily in a good way). Great for weight loss but rubbish for other things!

[272BHP]

CAH706 said:

Thanks.

A quick google suggests increasing protein, reducing alcohol and exercise are factors in lowering SHBG

I'll look in more detail as I'm currently not drinking, eating a high protein lower carb diet and exercising hard and often.

I wonder if the calorie defect in on to drop c.1 stone is the main factor influencing results.

Not many things can safely lower SHBG. SARMS and other potentially harmful things certainly can but that is not a long term solution.

Boron can be bought off the shelf and has been known to be effective.

[CAH706]

Thanks both

I'll be reducing the strictness of my current diet at the end of Feb and will gradually up my calories to a maintenance level by the end of April.

I'll get my levels rechecked then. May get a more comprehensive check next time so I have a wider view of what's going on.

[simonwhite2000]

simonwhite2000 said:

xx99xx said:

simonwhite2000 said:

New here. Two lots of tests recently 3 weeks apart. First time test and free test second time just test.
TEST 6.4
FREE TEST 0.139

TEST 6.8

Being referred to endo but like many, debating if to go on TRT and if I did I would just go private I think. I've had gyno 5 years ago that was surgically removed but worried TRT could encourage the gyno again

What caused the gyno 5 years ago? Assume they did blood tests then, including estrogen?

T in the 6's isn't great, but SHBG would also be useful for you to know.

If you have symptoms and are generally struggling and can afford to go private, then it's a no brainer.

So I had my appointment with the endo yesterday at St Helens hospital. The dr was a fairly sound guy but it was a frustrating experience - I had two rounds of bloods end of Nov 23 early Dec 23 and now they want to do another round 'just to be sure'. Anyway, I am having to have another round of bloods done and go back in 3 months. Only reason I am hanging in there is they definitely are going to do an MRI to try and see if its a pituitary gland issue or not. Plus if there is anything else funky going on upstairs outside of this issue it might get picked up so never a bad thing to have a head MRI.

Anyway, the guy said if the 3rd bloods are again in a similar range we can move forward with TRT. Post MRI and feedback I have decided to go private anyway given there is more choice on the solution but always worth seeing what the NHS offer. Has anyone ever been offered enanthate of the NHS or is it gel and sus only?

I was asked previously in here what my SHBG was - 25.1 as I saw the full readout on the screen. They said a normal range is 12 to 52 which seems like a typical NHS range - wide.

I need to look into SHBG more to understand how that fits in with my other results. Lots of learning still to do!

Got my latest batch of blood tests back that were requested by the endo - weird results - test now at 13.2. Baffled by how end of Nov and early Dec I got 6.4 and 6.8 respectively, now end of Jan I pull 13.2.

Anyone else had such a weird fluctuation?

All my blood tests are done before 9am and fasted and I have not made any lifestyle changes in terms of sleep or diet. If anything I am under more stress and haven't been jogging since December.

Going back further I checked with my GP and a few years back I was in the 8 region so this 13 results seems nuts.

Got another new set of blood tests scheduled to see what that reveals but curious to see if anyone else has seen any fluctuations like that.

Needless to say, the endo now wants to discharge me.

[Louis Balfour]

simonwhite2000 said:

simonwhite2000 said:

xx99xx said:

simonwhite2000 said:

New here. Two lots of tests recently 3 weeks apart. First time test and free test second time just test.
TEST 6.4
FREE TEST 0.139

TEST 6.8

Being referred to endo but like many, debating if to go on TRT and if I did I would just go private I think. I've had gyno 5 years ago that was surgically removed but worried TRT could encourage the gyno again

What caused the gyno 5 years ago? Assume they did blood tests then, including estrogen?

T in the 6's isn't great, but SHBG would also be useful for you to know.

If you have symptoms and are generally struggling and can afford to go private, then it's a no brainer.

So I had my appointment with the endo yesterday at St Helens hospital. The dr was a fairly sound guy but it was a frustrating experience - I had two rounds of bloods end of Nov 23 early Dec 23 and now they want to do another round 'just to be sure'. Anyway, I am having to have another round of bloods done and go back in 3 months. Only reason I am hanging in there is they definitely are going to do an MRI to try and see if its a pituitary gland issue or not. Plus if there is anything else funky going on upstairs outside of this issue it might get picked up so never a bad thing to have a head MRI.

Anyway, the guy said if the 3rd bloods are again in a similar range we can move forward with TRT. Post MRI and feedback I have decided to go private anyway given there is more choice on the solution but always worth seeing what the NHS offer. Has anyone ever been offered enanthate of the NHS or is it gel and sus only?

I was asked previously in here what my SHBG was - 25.1 as I saw the full readout on the screen. They said a normal range is 12 to 52 which seems like a typical NHS range - wide.

I need to look into SHBG more to understand how that fits in with my other results. Lots of learning still to do!

Got my latest batch of blood tests back that were requested by the endo - weird results - test now at 13.2. Baffled by how end of Nov and early Dec I got 6.4 and 6.8 respectively, now end of Jan I pull 13.2.

Anyone else had such a weird fluctuation?

All my blood tests are done before 9am and fasted and I have not made any lifestyle changes in terms of sleep or diet. If anything I am under more stress and haven't been jogging since December.

Going back further I checked with my GP and a few years back I was in the 8 region so this 13 results seems nuts.

Got another new set of blood tests scheduled to see what that reveals but curious to see if anyone else has seen any fluctuations like that.

Needless to say, the endo now wants to discharge me.

Jogging - steady state cardio - allegedly can suppress testosterone. Big change though no?

[lord trumpton]

Just buy test from a reputable UGL and monitor via medichecks if you are fed up with the NHS

[Legacywr]

UGL?