PH Transformation Thread 2012 - Chat

[Ordinary_Chap]

NeMiSiS said:

Halb said:

What do you do for your forearms?



Myself I don't do any 'arm' exercises. My arms are big enough and it would be silly for them to get bigger.
I do sometimes wonder if working them as well will help compound lifts. Also the fact that I do so much pressing movements and only chins work my biceps if that will create an imbalance.
But since number chasing isn't a goal at the moment it's not too much of an issue.

Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy admiring my self in the mirrors.

I find forearms are involved in most Bi-cep exercises, but to isolate them I sit on a flat bench and hang my wrists off the end of it, using my knees to keep my elbows in close. Then I wrist curl using an E-Z bar loaded with 40kgs, I will do 3 sets of 8 holding for a second or two at the top of the stroke. Then 3 sets of 8 on the preacher curl board, same script, but hits a higher area.

One gym I used to use had two small bars, dumbbell size, and you would load the stack and squeeze like a grip, it gave serious forearm burn that I have yet to replicate.

On the odd occassion that people speak to me in the gym they often say.." Obviously I don't want to get as big as you."

To which I reply " Don't worry, you wont. "

Your arm reply was almost in the same league.

Well I'm different, I'd like to get as big as you, I think your arm structure is fantastic and so are your forearms.

Incidentally my forearm size is quite large compared to my bicep/tricep comparatively although I know why, when I was previously training my back and other areas I tended to load my forearms up due to not really understanding how to squeeze the back for instance so my forearms have often got smashed in different sessions.

How long have you been training to achieve that size?

Lee

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

deadmau5 said:

It's not quite the fine dining you envisage, it's frozen spears done in the microwave and fresh salmon also done in the microwave! (Hobson's choice at work!)

Yeah I know! I only have teaspoons though and they're spread over about 8 hours so I don't think they're doing too much damage.

I just thought you could get carried away. I quite like peanut butter and when I found out I could eat stacks of it... well, me this morning:

Been on a diet buddy?

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Been on a diet buddy?

FINALLY! Somebody has noticed!

I see you checking ma pecs.

Can you blame me? My eyes aren't painted on!

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Can you blame me? My eyes aren't painted on!

I get the feeling you've used that reply before.

I'm full of cheesy one liners from my military days, it was maybe the most useful thing I learned.

I like;

You are thicker than a whale omelet
Or
You drink like a budgie with chapped lips!

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

I'm full of cheesy one liners from my military days, it was maybe the most useful thing I learned.

I like;

You are thicker than a whale omelet
Or
You drink like a budgie with chapped lips!

Any thoughts (not army one liners) about my calorie deficit? I daren't move now.

Dunno if this is visible?
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/reports/printable_diar...

Any thoughts? You are eating way too little!

I believe eating is about balance, eat the right stuff in the right quantities and never starve yourself (well unless you are entering a BB comp and are days/weeks out).

I presume you are trying to rapidly lose weight at the moment? I'd say given your size even 1.6k calories is way too little.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Any thoughts? You are eating way too little!

I believe eating is about balance, eat the right stuff in the right quantities and never starve yourself (well unless you are entering a BB comp and are days/weeks out).

I presume you are trying to rapidly lose weight at the moment? I'd say given your size even 1.6k calories is way too little.

You said I was eating too much a week ago!

Current goal: look like Brad Pitt/Fight Club.

I said you may need to eat less, I didn't say how many calories!

Brad Pitt's look was most certainly drug assisted. It is achievable but requires masses of exercise/cardio and a incredibly strict diet without drugs.

Personally I'm happy at around 12% bodyfat.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Halb said:

Hot cross buns, chocolate, ice-cream...Easter...diet resumes next Tuesday.

Pah. Call it a cheat day.

According to MFP, I've eaten 1,297 calories yesterday and 1,261 calories on Wednesday. I'm not sure it's true but I'm gonna just eat whatever I want for a day (within reason)... if I fancy it I'll eat it... and record everything. I should have done this before. If the worst happens and I've eaten 3000 calories (really doubt it!) then I'll just pedal a bit harder and longer tomorrow. Also, it's weights day today.

I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here dude unless you just want to have a day off? I have one day off a week.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here dude unless you just want to have a day off? I have one day off a week.

To know what I'd normally eat and see if what I'm "normally" eating is actually fine. Yesterday, I ate about 1300 calories. But ultimately I want to get ripped. So should I eat lower, higher or continue as I am but exercise more? I am continuing with my weights routine.

Can you post your full exercise plan? Also are you wanted to eat this 7 days a week?

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Ok, my exercise routine (which is subject to being increased depending on whether I meet up with others to train or climb):
Monday: 1 hour kung fu (consider it medium level cardio)
Tuesday: weights, 60 minutes
Wednesday: 45 minutes medium cardio including stationary cycling and HIIT
Thursday: 45 minutes medium cardio including stationary cycling and HIIT
Friday: 1 hour kung fu then weights, 60 minutes (I know it's the wrong way round but no way I'm lifting then training )
Saturday: 2 hours medium cardio including cycling and HIIT
Sunday: 45 minutes medium cardio including cycling and HIIT

As for eating, Sunday is my cheat day.

Thats quite a bit of exercise buddy, I'd suggest you'd need a lot more calories.

How are you measuring fat loss? Also are you recording measurements/weight or whatever? If so post it here if you don't mind.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Thats quite a bit of exercise buddy, I'd suggest you'd need a lot more calories.

How are you measuring fat loss? Also are you recording measurements/weight or whatever? If so post it here if you don't mind.

So my body is panicking over how little I'm getting and how much it's having to do?

I just look in the mirror.

If you say to do XYZ because it will get the results I want, I'll do it for a month and see how I get on... No, I won't kiss you.

Time for a pint or two of cider!

Edited by Hoofy on Friday 6th April 11:15

I think everyone should spend time experimenting with different approaches to see how they affect their bodies but to do this you need to be at least a little scientific, measurements, pictures and weight can all be helpful, obviously if its about weight loss then more specific fat measurements like calipers and the advanced weight tests.

I'd advise you take a picture/measurements same time once a week at the very least to see how you're getting on and you may need to consider doing it for more than a month. I personally think 3 months is always a good measure of change.

When I'm dieting I'm still usually over 2.5k calories but everyone is different in size, metabolism etc.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Smitters said:

I'd be interested to see what people thought of these weights and if I look hideously imbalanced. I know they're low, but I'm working to change that...

Bench 5x5 - 40kg
Standing OHP w. bar 5x5 - 20kg
Lat Pull down 5x5 - 40kg
Standing bent over barbell row - 40kg

What do you mean? Presumably, you're lifting weights that are challenging, so just keep going and the numbers will grow. Pay attention to good form to avoid injury and watch the numbers increase over the next few months.

If you're worried about, for instance, having massive lats and skinny biceps, you can focus on specific areas later. My weakness is shoulders so I started hitting those more. Have started to get comments so clearly it's working. (They're still st by other PHers' standards but people I know have commented so they must be growing.)

Other PHers standards? Like who?

Anyway my revelation over the past 6 months has been obtaining maximum muscle contraction and volume.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Other PHers standards? Like who?

Fishing for compliments are we?

Heh no - I'm just not aware of any outstanding posters in this thread.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Bolognese said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Other PHers standards? Like who?

Anyway my revelation over the past 6 months has been obtaining maximum muscle contraction and volume.

This is what I have been concentrating on since the start of the year. After watching the Kai Greene vid - I will never be a weightlifter. I have seen great gains already and Im not lifting nearly as much weight as before. Just high intensity and full muscle stretch and squeeze. I find DOMS lasts longer with this style. Hopefully doing something right!

I'm glad you like it! I posted that.

I've found seeking strong muscle contraction mixed with volume can get very painful very quickly.

My coach encourages me to seek failure as fast as reasonably possible.

The pain days after this type of training sure isn't pleasant! Phil Heath trained in my gym a few times and trains exactly the same.

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Thursday 12th April 11:49

[Ordinary_Chap]

Jimbo NW said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

Hoofy said:

Smitters said:

I'd be interested to see what people thought of these weights and if I look hideously imbalanced. I know they're low, but I'm working to change that...

Bench 5x5 - 40kg
Standing OHP w. bar 5x5 - 20kg
Lat Pull down 5x5 - 40kg
Standing bent over barbell row - 40kg

What do you mean? Presumably, you're lifting weights that are challenging, so just keep going and the numbers will grow. Pay attention to good form to avoid injury and watch the numbers increase over the next few months.

If you're worried about, for instance, having massive lats and skinny biceps, you can focus on specific areas later. My weakness is shoulders so I started hitting those more. Have started to get comments so clearly it's working. (They're still st by other PHers' standards but people I know have commented so they must be growing.)

Other PHers standards? Like who?

Anyway my revelation over the past 6 months has been obtaining maximum muscle contraction and volume.

That "I'll never be a weightlifter" Video helped me no end, since then dropping the weights right down and focusing on "Stretccccch, Contract..." I've noticed my muscles looking fuller, wider and broader than ever before.

As an example, before applying these principles I would finish back and bi's with 22kg dumbbells, more likely than not throw them up using my back, now using controlled and timed reps i'm only lifting 14's however the burn and pump is incredible, very much a preacher of that type of lifting now.

Or on the flip side you can use Dorian Yates, who advocates slightly cheat movements on the positive motion, along as the negative is controlled and focusing on stretch, which i have nicknamed negative volume training.

Either way, both these top bodybuilders advocate and preach slow controlled movements and leaving number chasing for the powerlifters.

I'm glad it was useful!

Dorian's technique is similar to Kai's in that squeezing the muscle is very important for working the muscle. If you've watched any Dorian video's he's constantly screaming SQUEEEEEEEEEZE!

I had a huge spurt of growth from doing this type of training.

Previously I lifted a lot of weight and grew but at a much slower rate. My main issue in the past was not squeezing the muscle. For instance my forearms are comparatively big compared because when I did exercises like back exercises I was engaging them to help as opposed to focusing on my back.

Its amazing how much of this is a mental/muscle game.

[Ordinary_Chap]

maximus123 said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

I'm glad it was useful!

Dorian's technique is similar to Kai's in that squeezing the muscle is very important for working the muscle. If you've watched any Dorian video's he's constantly screaming SQUEEEEEEEEEZE!

I had a huge spurt of growth from doing this type of training.

Previously I lifted a lot of weight and grew but at a much slower rate. My main issue in the past was not squeezing the muscle. For instance my forearms are comparatively big compared because when I did exercises like back exercises I was engaging them to help as opposed to focusing on my back.

Its amazing how much of this is a mental/muscle game.

Can you just clarify the 'squeezing' the muscle. I can see it working easily for say bacep curls but how about bench press? Do you squeeze at the end of the movement? Also does this type of training work with the squats and deadlifts?

What type of reps/sets are people using?

You can normally squeeze the muscles when doing bench, with bench I've also been pausing at the bottom and squeezing, then explosive up and slow down.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Hoofy this is a good Kai video on shoulders/back. He really offers some truly superb advice to the chap he is training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cG32kXQxFu8&fea...

There is a part one of this video if you like it.

Lee

[Ordinary_Chap]

Lost_BMW said:

Bolognese said:

Just did a back a bi's session. I tried the behind style lat pulldown technique from the above Kai vid. I couldnt really get on with it - just didnt feel comfortable. Not sure if you have to work up to it. The other stuff was cool though.

(I kept hearing his voice in my head saying "squeeeeeezeeeee")

Used to be all the rage when I started training then seemed to get linked to shoulder injuries, a bit like press behind neck. I stopped doing them years ago as it felt like it made my shoulders click + hurt my elbow tendons for some reason.

It's an exercise that some can do safely but was generally considered a no-no for the average gym goer due the increased possibility of injury.

I personally find it difficult to do but my coach has others who do it.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Lost_BMW said:

Ordinary_Chap said:

It's an exercise that some can do safely but was generally considered a no-no for the average gym goer due the increased possibility of injury.

I personally find it difficult to do but my coach has others who do it.

IMO it - like anything I guess - is only safe until the day it causes an injury. Only takes one event and then sit out the setback.

Fair enough, no exercise is totally safe but with all the options available why risk one that might be more risky and doesn't seem to offer any particular or unique advantage?

I suspect it is somewhat but not completely to do with biomechanics. I've seen folk injured doing it supposedly the safe way, although that isn't a reasonable argument I think some folk find some exercises more comfortable than others due to size, length of limbs etc.

I know folk who don't squat and/or deadlift for the same reasons.

[Ordinary_Chap]

theshrew said:

Went to the gym last night in one of those moods when your really up for it and feel like your going to smash it up. Woman on the desk said its closed lol

Felt like i should still do something so went for a 7.5 mile run instead. Defo no more cardio for me until next week. Thats my 4th run this week. Legs are heavy as foof.

Was even tempted to have a ice bath when i got home but chickend out lol Anyone else tried one ?

Ice baths nah! I don't think that is at all required unless you do something like play competitive rugby and have a body that is badly beaten up!

There has always been two schools of thought over these things, either have ice baths or stay warm and using a hot bath/shower to relax. Some Pro bodybuilders still wear a lot of clothing when they train to keep temperature up.

Personally I'm not convinced with either method but I'm happy to be persuaded if there is a body of evidence to suggest more conclusively that a particular method works, however I probably still will not do either heh!

[Ordinary_Chap]

It's funny we have been talking about the lat-pull down when my weekly update came through on T-Nation with an article on why the lat pull down can be a useful exercise.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_r...