PH Transformation Thread 2012 - Chat
Discussion
Sushi said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
Are you doing that everyday buddy? i.e. the cardio/legs/upper body or am I reading that wrong?
my current schedule looks like thisSunday Cardio, legs
Monday Cardio, upper body
Tuesday Gentle cardio warmup, boxercise
Wednesday Cardio, legs
Thursday Cardio
Friday off
Saturday Cardio, upper body
I may swap wednesday and thursday round depending how I get on with the boxercise (scared it's going to kill me)
I'd also recommend you do cardio after weights as the fat loss potential is far higher after weight training with cardio. You also risk injuries doing cardio first as you really should in my view only do weights when you are fresh.
There's tons of scientific studies out there that support this view. I've copied a article from a quick google that lists a few of them.
article said:
If you do weight training and cardio, you probably do your cardio after the weight training. This order of doing things is beneficial, as this way round the cardio training won’t sap your energy for pumping iron. But according to a human study done by sports scientists at the University of Tsukuba, and published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, this order is also good for your cardio training as you burn more fat during the cardio part of your training.
The researchers did a trial with 10 healthy male students, average age 23. On one occasion the students had to cycle for 60 minutes at 50 percent of their VO2max. [E] That’s a bit more intensive than just pedalling along, but where you’re still capable of discussing your relationship problems.
On another occasion the test subjects did weight training before cycling. They did 3-4 sets of the shoulder press, butterfly, biceps curl, squat, bench press and lat pulldown, using weights at which they were just capable of doing 10 reps. After this they rested 20 minutes [RE20] and on another occasion they rested 120 minutes before they started their cardio workout [RE120].
To cut a long story short, the subjects lost more fat on the RE20 combination than on the E and RE120.
This is probably because adrenalin and noradrenalin are released during weight training, the researchers think. These ‘pep’ hormones force the fat cells to release their contents into the bloodstream.
Another advantage is that doing cardio training after weight training gives a higher growth hormone peak. And growth hormone stimulates not only fat burning, but also muscle tissue recovery. In studies where athletes do cardio training before weight training, their growth hormone production is lower than you’d expect.
"This study showed that fat availability during submaximal exercise was enhanced by prior resistance exercise", the researchers write in their conclusion. "However, augmentation of fat oxidation during the submaximal exercise was observed only in the trial with a shorter rest period between resistance and submaximal endurance exercises."
Source:
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 Feb; 39(2): 308-15.
More:
Trained body burns more fat with gentle endurance exercise 09.01.2010
Weight loss with cardio requires four sessions a week 02.12.2009
Cardio in two parts burns more energy 31.08.2009
More intensive cardio means fewer reps with strength training 03.08.2009
Moderate and intensive training equally good with weight-loss diet 16.05.2009
Training is more fun with a bottle of water 20.01.2009
http://www.ergo-log.com/cardioafterweighttraining....The researchers did a trial with 10 healthy male students, average age 23. On one occasion the students had to cycle for 60 minutes at 50 percent of their VO2max. [E] That’s a bit more intensive than just pedalling along, but where you’re still capable of discussing your relationship problems.
On another occasion the test subjects did weight training before cycling. They did 3-4 sets of the shoulder press, butterfly, biceps curl, squat, bench press and lat pulldown, using weights at which they were just capable of doing 10 reps. After this they rested 20 minutes [RE20] and on another occasion they rested 120 minutes before they started their cardio workout [RE120].
To cut a long story short, the subjects lost more fat on the RE20 combination than on the E and RE120.
This is probably because adrenalin and noradrenalin are released during weight training, the researchers think. These ‘pep’ hormones force the fat cells to release their contents into the bloodstream.
Another advantage is that doing cardio training after weight training gives a higher growth hormone peak. And growth hormone stimulates not only fat burning, but also muscle tissue recovery. In studies where athletes do cardio training before weight training, their growth hormone production is lower than you’d expect.
"This study showed that fat availability during submaximal exercise was enhanced by prior resistance exercise", the researchers write in their conclusion. "However, augmentation of fat oxidation during the submaximal exercise was observed only in the trial with a shorter rest period between resistance and submaximal endurance exercises."
Source:
Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 Feb; 39(2): 308-15.
More:
Trained body burns more fat with gentle endurance exercise 09.01.2010
Weight loss with cardio requires four sessions a week 02.12.2009
Cardio in two parts burns more energy 31.08.2009
More intensive cardio means fewer reps with strength training 03.08.2009
Moderate and intensive training equally good with weight-loss diet 16.05.2009
Training is more fun with a bottle of water 20.01.2009
But anyway, well done sir!
Bolognese said:
Hoofy said:
Sushi said:
300 short quick fire front wing chun punches (this is the real killer for me, my arms are usually spent after this)
I've started trying to do 1000 a day (10 x 100 so not as impressive as it first sounds!). It does knacker you! Also, due to miscounting, I may be doing sets of 110 as I f
k up the count and recount the previous 10 punches I did.Sushi said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
Thanks for the pointers, I'll try switching things round from next week (I'm already in this weeks groove so would hate to break it)Yesterdays cardio and upper body workout burned 932 calories according to my heart rate monitor but only 14% of that was fat burning the rest was marked as fitness?
The best results I see are from weight training followed by HIIT and a good diet. For then even more crazy rapid changes, I did low effort cardio in the mornings before breakfast.
I performed transformations on my own body over the past few years doing this (I have some old threads on here).
Keep it up!
Lee
Sushi said:
Hoofy said:
Indeed. When using MyFitnessPal, whatever they suggest is the burn amount, I halve it, think whether it's reasonable and sometimes knock off a bit more.
I always thought it was linked to your height and weight and general fitness, I have a heart rate band which fits snuggly under my man boobs (neatly accentuating them) and my heart rate at gym averages 144 over an hour, usually peak around 160. I'll keep going with what I'm doing, but swap my cardio and weights around to maximise fat burning ('cos there's a shed load still to get rid of)
Here are a couple of interesting dieticians I often read;
Lyle McDonald - dietician to the stars and is also bluntly truthful about everything.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/
Will Brink - Provides lots of interesting videos on different subjects and general information about the markets.
http://www.brinkzone.com/
Hoofy said:
theshrew said:
No its leveled off now. Last night went down - having said that the last 2 weeks ive not trained as much as i normally do due to working lots and Mrs being away so had to stay home with my daughter.
Maybe that was the reason for last nights poo effort + i was really tired.
One option is to consider trimming back the fat, focusing on getting lean, just to give yourself a bit of motivation, before going at the weights again ie bulking up. I understand a lot of bodybuilders zigzag upwards bulking and cutting.Maybe that was the reason for last nights poo effort + i was really tired.
You can do it staying lean as long as you don't mind sacrificing a great deal of growth you could of been having by eating more.
Personally the zig-zag approach works for me as I want to see progress in gaining muscle, like to eat and don't really want to stay sub 10% body fat all year around!
I did one session of mega bulking (my part 2 thread) enjoyed lifting a lot and getting really fat then lost it all and at the end I was so much bigger than when I started.
Hoofy said:
Nice going. I wonder if the reason for the increase in benching is due to the way you dip on the rings with your upper body leaning forwards thus training the lower part of the pectorals as well as the triceps and lats.
Well thats a theory I suppose...... 
After training for a few years with weights now, I personally find growth and strength often happen in spirts as opposed to continuously.
Sometimes I train for a few months with no noticeable changes and then suddenly I start growing and getting stronger before going back to getting stuck.
I'm not suggesting everyone is like this but the body is a complex thing and growth/strength gains don't always appear to be predictable.
Thats my theory!
Hoofy said:
Since you're here, OC, there's another thread asking about beginner tips...
I usually try not to post on all threads otherwise it becomes the OC show and there are plenty of folk on here who know far more than I anyway! Also I often find it interesting watching how threads play out with different suggestions!
I will take a look anyway!
Hoofy said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
I usually try not to post on all threads otherwise it becomes the OC show
You have no fear of that. Don't you know PH is the Hoofy Show?
I try not to be overbearing, I have strong views and know how to make this stuff work, I've trained enough people now but I also recognise there are tons of other ways to achieve a good outcome so I try not to preach too much!
Lee
Hoofy said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
I try not to be overbearing, I have strong views and know how to make this stuff work, I've trained enough people now but I also recognise there are tons of other ways to achieve a good outcome so I try not to preach too much!
Lee
How is your training coming along?
Hoofy said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
Well thank you kind sir!
How is your training coming along?
Very well, all things considered. I'm at a point where I've started introducing new exercises to work particular weak areas eg shoulders. I'm trying to split the routine up (am still doing stuff as a result of advice on this thread but need to think about what equipment is available as I train at a gym once a week and at home on another day. I need to have a proper think about it.How is your training coming along?
LordGrover said:
Since my hernia I've not done any weight lifting so that's about six weeks off. It's alarming how quickly you lose muscle even after a short lay-off.
Had to shift some metal yesterday because I was going mental. Very light, about 50% of last workout(s); lat. pull-downs, cable rows, deadlifts*, OHP and bench press. Daren't risk squats yet. Felt good to do something - I doubt it did much good except make me feel better.
* Deads were at just 60kgs, more to stretch my hamstrings than work my quads or back.
Good to see you back on it LG. Had to shift some metal yesterday because I was going mental. Very light, about 50% of last workout(s); lat. pull-downs, cable rows, deadlifts*, OHP and bench press. Daren't risk squats yet. Felt good to do something - I doubt it did much good except make me feel better.
* Deads were at just 60kgs, more to stretch my hamstrings than work my quads or back.
Have you had the op yet? How long until do you think you'll be recovered?
Lee
LordGrover said:
Nope. Just received 'approval' from PCT, so now to arrange the operation. No idea of waiting list either.
I still may go private yet - I can't find out which 'method' the NHS are offering. For the sake of a few quid I'd rather get it done properly in good time.
If anyone has a personal recommendation for either a hospital or surgeon I'd be pleased to hear it.
Sorry can't help there but I wish you a full and speedy recovery buddy.I still may go private yet - I can't find out which 'method' the NHS are offering. For the sake of a few quid I'd rather get it done properly in good time.
If anyone has a personal recommendation for either a hospital or surgeon I'd be pleased to hear it.
Lee
Pete102 said:
Fell of the proverbial wagon of late, put 1lb back on! but it could of been worse I suppose. Was back at the gym this morning, have eaten pretty well today, lots of protein and a few complex carbs.
On the plus side Mrs Pete102 is having another baby Pete 102...due date 18th December...you know its coming christmas day!
Congrats! Wish Mrs Pete well from all of us!On the plus side Mrs Pete102 is having another baby Pete 102...due date 18th December...you know its coming christmas day!
Lee
So tonight was a legs session and I say it was the most brutal training set I've ever done.
The gym owner and his training partner let me train with them as they reckon I'm one of the few true masochists out there who enjoy the pain. To be honest, I wasn't sure which way to take that....
Anyway I was honored as he is successful bodybuilder and very rarely lets anyone train with him.
So after 40 minutes of super-sets, squats, leg press, hack squat, reverse leg press and when I got back I realised it looks like a vein has come out of the front of my leg lol!
My legs are usually shaky after legs but tonight I had to question if I was fit to drive my car!
Lee
The gym owner and his training partner let me train with them as they reckon I'm one of the few true masochists out there who enjoy the pain. To be honest, I wasn't sure which way to take that....
Anyway I was honored as he is successful bodybuilder and very rarely lets anyone train with him.
So after 40 minutes of super-sets, squats, leg press, hack squat, reverse leg press and when I got back I realised it looks like a vein has come out of the front of my leg lol!
My legs are usually shaky after legs but tonight I had to question if I was fit to drive my car!
Lee
LordGrover said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
So tonight was a legs session and I say it was the most brutal training set I've ever done.
The gym owner and his training partner let me train with them as they reckon I'm one of the few true masochists out there who enjoy the pain. To be honest, I wasn't sure which way to take that....
Anyway I was honored as he is successful bodybuilder and very rarely lets anyone train with him.
So after 40 minutes of super-sets, squats, leg press, hack squat, reverse leg press and when I got back I realised it looks like a vein has come out of the front of my leg lol!
My legs are usually shaky after legs but tonight I had to question if I was fit to drive my car!
Lee
Yo Dawg!The gym owner and his training partner let me train with them as they reckon I'm one of the few true masochists out there who enjoy the pain. To be honest, I wasn't sure which way to take that....
Anyway I was honored as he is successful bodybuilder and very rarely lets anyone train with him.
So after 40 minutes of super-sets, squats, leg press, hack squat, reverse leg press and when I got back I realised it looks like a vein has come out of the front of my leg lol!
My legs are usually shaky after legs but tonight I had to question if I was fit to drive my car!
Lee
Sushi said:
fk you guys!
fk you in the ass!
I did my cardio after weights last night, I stepped off the cross trainer, stumbled 4 or 5 steps before managing to regain my composure, looked around to see 2 young ladies sniggering
I can see why you reccomend it, it was a much better workout, but damn it hurts this morning. I think I'll have to keep it up, and hopefully my legs will hold up better next time
I'm at an odd stage on the treadmill now though, I feel as though I'm walking to fast to be walking, it's difficult to explain, but it's like I've reached a speed where it would be more comfortable running? Anyone had this before?
My usual treadmill is 25 minutes
start 4% incline at 5.0kph for 5 mins
then 8% incline at 6.0kph for 5 mins
then 6% incline at 5.0kph for 5 mins
then 10% incline at 6.0kph for 5 mins
then 6% incline at 5.0kph for 5 mins
at 6kph I'm really not sure if I should be jogging or walking.
Personally buddy I don't do cardio after training legs but I do on other training nights. k you guys!f
k you in the ass!I did my cardio after weights last night, I stepped off the cross trainer, stumbled 4 or 5 steps before managing to regain my composure, looked around to see 2 young ladies sniggering
I can see why you reccomend it, it was a much better workout, but damn it hurts this morning. I think I'll have to keep it up, and hopefully my legs will hold up better next time
I'm at an odd stage on the treadmill now though, I feel as though I'm walking to fast to be walking, it's difficult to explain, but it's like I've reached a speed where it would be more comfortable running? Anyone had this before?
My usual treadmill is 25 minutes
start 4% incline at 5.0kph for 5 mins
then 8% incline at 6.0kph for 5 mins
then 6% incline at 5.0kph for 5 mins
then 10% incline at 6.0kph for 5 mins
then 6% incline at 5.0kph for 5 mins
at 6kph I'm really not sure if I should be jogging or walking.
And yes its usually much harder!
deadmau5 said:
LordGrover said:
The first two weeks was probably mostly water loss.
If you're training you're probably gaining muscle while losing d=fat so overall mass remains pretty much constant.
Rely on the tape measure and photos/mirror for what's actually changing.
I hadn't really considered that, but it would seem the most logical reason.If you're training you're probably gaining muscle while losing d=fat so overall mass remains pretty much constant.
Rely on the tape measure and photos/mirror for what's actually changing.
I actually always do that when I start training hard, my weight remains constant but my body composition changes.
I like using pictures once a week, it helps me see change.
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