30 somethings - are you going to vax?
Discussion
GregK2 said:
superlightr said:
the site has indeed changed - its did give the full breakdown of the adverse reactions as per the chart copied. it now hides each bit of data away.
It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
Interesting that graph was pulled from the site. It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
The figures in the data you posted previously look quite alarming to me? And not reflected in what I can see on the site now unless I am missing something.
andy ted said:
GregK2 said:
superlightr said:
the site has indeed changed - its did give the full breakdown of the adverse reactions as per the chart copied. it now hides each bit of data away.
It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
Interesting that graph was pulled from the site. It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
The figures in the data you posted previously look quite alarming to me? And not reflected in what I can see on the site now unless I am missing something.
superlightr said:
andy ted said:
GregK2 said:
superlightr said:
the site has indeed changed - its did give the full breakdown of the adverse reactions as per the chart copied. it now hides each bit of data away.
It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
Interesting that graph was pulled from the site. It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
The figures in the data you posted previously look quite alarming to me? And not reflected in what I can see on the site now unless I am missing something.
Many suspected ADRs reported on a Yellow Card do not have any relation to the vaccine or medicine and it is often coincidental that they both occurred around the same time. The reports are continually reviewed to detect possible new side effects that may require regulatory action, and to differentiate these from things that would have happened regardless of the vaccine or medicine being administered, for instance due to underlying or undiagnosed illness.
Edited by andy ted on Wednesday 11th August 08:42
andy ted said:
superlightr said:
andy ted said:
GregK2 said:
superlightr said:
the site has indeed changed - its did give the full breakdown of the adverse reactions as per the chart copied. it now hides each bit of data away.
It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
Interesting that graph was pulled from the site. It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
The figures in the data you posted previously look quite alarming to me? And not reflected in what I can see on the site now unless I am missing something.
Many suspected ADRs reported on a Yellow Card do not have any relation to the vaccine or medicine and it is often coincidental that they both occurred around the same time. The reports are continually reviewed to detect possible new side effects that may require regulatory action, and to differentiate these from things that would have happened regardless of the vaccine or medicine being administered, for instance due to underlying or undiagnosed illness.
Edited by andy ted on Wednesday 11th August 08:42
Why did the govt take down the chart?
the report should be impartial - it clear is not by the language used.
hey but lets ignore any adverse reactions - lets jab everyone including children. If you are not at risk of covid weigh up if you want the risk of the vaccine. being coerced and blackmailed into having it is abhorrent.
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th August 08:50
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th August 08:50
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th August 08:52
superlightr said:
andy ted said:
superlightr said:
andy ted said:
GregK2 said:
superlightr said:
the site has indeed changed - its did give the full breakdown of the adverse reactions as per the chart copied. it now hides each bit of data away.
It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
Interesting that graph was pulled from the site. It now is just another gloss over and govt speech of what they want to do. The yellow card is there to highlight the risks but does not now put numbers on the individual adverse reactions in an easy to read chart.
As mentioned have the vaccine if you wish. Im not stopping anyone. For the under 40's there is effective zero risk from covid but there is a risk from the vaccine. Its immoral to jab children.
The figures in the data you posted previously look quite alarming to me? And not reflected in what I can see on the site now unless I am missing something.
Many suspected ADRs reported on a Yellow Card do not have any relation to the vaccine or medicine and it is often coincidental that they both occurred around the same time. The reports are continually reviewed to detect possible new side effects that may require regulatory action, and to differentiate these from things that would have happened regardless of the vaccine or medicine being administered, for instance due to underlying or undiagnosed illness.
Edited by andy ted on Wednesday 11th August 08:42
Edited by andy ted on Wednesday 11th August 08:58
superlightr said:
Why did the govt take down the chart?
….. being coerced and blackmailed into having it is abhorrent
The data was read wrongly to fit your anti vax view, and if you think everyone with a tie is out to get you you’re mistaken they’ve had enough trouble for 18 months running around trying to manage a global cockup up to worry about being big brother. ….. being coerced and blackmailed into having it is abhorrent
You shouldn’t need to be blackmailed, nearly 90% and counting have had the jab to reduce risk to them and others, so you won’t be giving the govt a bloody nose not having one although your resistance will be stuck in 2020 before the vax. If you want to help, reduce your risk and be part of the uk recovery then go for it.
superlightr said:
hey but lets ignore any adverse reactions - lets jab everyone including children. If you are not at risk of covid weigh up if you want the risk of the vaccine. being coerced and blackmailed into having it is abhorrent.
what was it, 29k out of what 40m? that's nothing. Everyone is aware of the fact that vaccines have risk of reaction. It is a much lower risk than covid but you keep being blind to the facts. It's literally been repeated a million times here.Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th August 08:50
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th August 08:50
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th August 08:52
what about covid? 6m cases in uk, 130k dead? and that doesn't include those who survived with life changing damage to lungs etc.
ffs.
what i think people fail to look at is the risk vs reward.
in an 60-65+ the risk of serious complication to death of covid is fairly high and the risk of an an adverse reaction to the jab is relitively low so makes taking the jab very worthwhile but as the age cycles down and the risk of highlevel of illness from covid goes down too but the risk of adverse reactions to the jab particuarly in young, teenage to mid/late 20 males seems to go up. this is the risk vs reward that needs to be weighed up rather than just insisting everyone goes and gets the vaccine.
looking at the deaths of under 30s since the very start vs the adverse reactions that have been reported in what is quite a small number of that age group does start to look a bit higher and requires more research than just go and get it and everything that may come of it as reactions is just a coincidence
in an 60-65+ the risk of serious complication to death of covid is fairly high and the risk of an an adverse reaction to the jab is relitively low so makes taking the jab very worthwhile but as the age cycles down and the risk of highlevel of illness from covid goes down too but the risk of adverse reactions to the jab particuarly in young, teenage to mid/late 20 males seems to go up. this is the risk vs reward that needs to be weighed up rather than just insisting everyone goes and gets the vaccine.
looking at the deaths of under 30s since the very start vs the adverse reactions that have been reported in what is quite a small number of that age group does start to look a bit higher and requires more research than just go and get it and everything that may come of it as reactions is just a coincidence
As I mentioned before, a lot of highly educated people are unconvinced of the benefits of the vaccine.
https://t.co/eqE7MzcQZC
https://t.co/eqE7MzcQZC
ORD said:
As I mentioned before, a lot of highly educated people are unconvinced of the benefits of the vaccine.
https://t.co/eqE7MzcQZC
If we're taking level of education as a direct correlation of intelligence (I don't personally) then I still think the ONS results I published before are more relevant as they're based on the UK, but there's still very limited conclusions we can draw from it, especially without knowing what their education is in. So I think it's moot personally. https://t.co/eqE7MzcQZC
What is more important here, is not the authority, but what the counterargument actually is. I.e. What sensible and rational reason do you have to not take the vaccine. There may well be one, but we have yet to see it here. What we see here repeatedly is very arrogant men applying specious reasoning, failing to grasp statistics, and a consistent lack of understanding about the drug approval, and safety reporting processes, leading to fault conclusions.
I said it before, but to decline a vaccine during a pandemic, without any rational reason to do so, is at best ignorant, at worst moronic.
I put a lot of the vax pushers in the same bracket as the remainers during and after bexit. their only real argument was telling others they are stupid which is the worst thing you can do as that will only strengthen someones stubborness to stick with a current view.
I am neither for or against the vaccine, in fact for the older and more vulnerable with the data that is available then the sensible thing to do is to take the vaccine and hope it offers a level of protection to limit symptoms. for younger people with the likelyhood of lesser symptoms then i think it is purely down to the individule to choose what is best for them and it should remain a completely private matter now and in the future in every situation.
I am neither for or against the vaccine, in fact for the older and more vulnerable with the data that is available then the sensible thing to do is to take the vaccine and hope it offers a level of protection to limit symptoms. for younger people with the likelyhood of lesser symptoms then i think it is purely down to the individule to choose what is best for them and it should remain a completely private matter now and in the future in every situation.
Prof Prolapse said:
ORD said:
As I mentioned before, a lot of highly educated people are unconvinced of the benefits of the vaccine.
https://t.co/eqE7MzcQZC
If we're taking level of education as a direct correlation of intelligence (I don't personally) then I still think the ONS results I published before are more relevant as they're based on the UK, but there's still very limited conclusions we can draw from it, especially without knowing what their education is in. So I think it's moot personally. https://t.co/eqE7MzcQZC
What is more important here, is not the authority, but what the counterargument actually is. I.e. What sensible and rational reason do you have to not take the vaccine. There may well be one, but we have yet to see it here. What we see here repeatedly is very arrogant men applying specious reasoning, failing to grasp statistics, and a consistent lack of understanding about the drug approval, and safety reporting processes, leading to fault conclusions.
I said it before, but to decline a vaccine during a pandemic, without any rational reason to do so, is at best ignorant, at worst moronic.
Prof Prolapse said:
ORD said:
As I mentioned before, a lot of highly educated people are unconvinced of the benefits of the vaccine.
https://t.co/eqE7MzcQZC
If we're taking level of education as a direct correlation of intelligence (I don't personally) then I still think the ONS results I published before are more relevant as they're based on the UK, but there's still very limited conclusions we can draw from it, especially without knowing what their education is in. So I think it's moot personally. https://t.co/eqE7MzcQZC
What is more important here, is not the authority, but what the counterargument actually is. I.e. What sensible and rational reason do you have to not take the vaccine. There may well be one, but we have yet to see it here. What we see here repeatedly is very arrogant men applying specious reasoning, failing to grasp statistics, and a consistent lack of understanding about the drug approval, and safety reporting processes, leading to fault conclusions.
I said it before, but to decline a vaccine during a pandemic, without any rational reason to do so, is at best ignorant, at worst moronic.
My own reasoning is as follows:
-The risk to myself from Covid as a 30-something is negligible. People such as yourself describe the risks as 'moderate', and some of the vaccine fanatics on here like to mix in average estimated CFR across all age ranges to try and demonstrate why we're all going to die, but statistically the risk is tiny. The fact that the vaccine is even lower risk is irrelevant. The initial risk in the first place is so low that it's not worth bothering with. I wouldn't bother with a vaccine that protects me against lightning strike either.
-The virtue signalers dream of 'protecting others' seems to be turning out to be largely nonsense too, and will make no long term difference to the outcome of the situation.
-I am in strong disagreement with the behaviour of the government lately regarding the coercion towards taking this jab, and what it means going forward, especially considering the point above. Rolling over and taking the jab makes me complicit in this act and suggests that I'm ok with it. I'm not. Unfortunately I may be in a minority here, because most young-ish people have rolled over (largely for an easy life I suspect, not because they're well smart like you).
witko999 said:
There have been plenty of sensible and rational reasons not to take the vaccine. It's just that you prefer to latch onto more ludicrous arguments to demonstrate your superiority.
My own reasoning is as follows:
-The risk to myself from Covid as a 30-something is negligible. People such as yourself describe the risks as 'moderate', and some of the vaccine fanatics on here like to mix in average estimated CFR across all age ranges to try and demonstrate why we're all going to die, but statistically the risk is tiny. The fact that the vaccine is even lower risk is irrelevant. The initial risk in the first place is so low that it's not worth bothering with. I wouldn't bother with a vaccine that protects me against lightning strike either.
-The virtue signalers dream of 'protecting others' seems to be turning out to be largely nonsense too, and will make no long term difference to the outcome of the situation.
-I am in strong disagreement with the behaviour of the government lately regarding the coercion towards taking this jab, and what it means going forward, especially considering the point above. Rolling over and taking the jab makes me complicit in this act and suggests that I'm ok with it. I'm not. Unfortunately I may be in a minority here, because most young-ish people have rolled over (largely for an easy life I suspect, not because they're well smart like you).
Leading and finishing with an ad-hominem argument, eh? Look, none of us are here due to altruism, but if I do seize on the most ridiculous posts, it's simply because I don't think "ludicrous" arguments should go by undefended as they're often the most toxic, and you often have the highest chance of convincing someone of reality.My own reasoning is as follows:
-The risk to myself from Covid as a 30-something is negligible. People such as yourself describe the risks as 'moderate', and some of the vaccine fanatics on here like to mix in average estimated CFR across all age ranges to try and demonstrate why we're all going to die, but statistically the risk is tiny. The fact that the vaccine is even lower risk is irrelevant. The initial risk in the first place is so low that it's not worth bothering with. I wouldn't bother with a vaccine that protects me against lightning strike either.
-The virtue signalers dream of 'protecting others' seems to be turning out to be largely nonsense too, and will make no long term difference to the outcome of the situation.
-I am in strong disagreement with the behaviour of the government lately regarding the coercion towards taking this jab, and what it means going forward, especially considering the point above. Rolling over and taking the jab makes me complicit in this act and suggests that I'm ok with it. I'm not. Unfortunately I may be in a minority here, because most young-ish people have rolled over (largely for an easy life I suspect, not because they're well smart like you).
So despite recommendations by impartial experts, senior medics and scientists, you don't see what's in it for you personally, you don't care about what role you have in the success of the vaccine programme, and you've spat the dummy because an entirely unrelated part of the government is doing something you don't like.
We are in the midst of the largest global pandemic for over a hundred years. 4.3 million people have died with the virus to date, global economies have been shattered, trillions have been lost, and the only way out of this is a vaccination programme. Whilst nothing is without risk, the vaccine is safe, and much safer than COVID for you personally, our best data and medical knowledge supports this. It also suggests that we all have a role to play in supporting the vaccination programme, but this is admittedly less certain.
You have a right to decline a vaccine, no one is suggesting you don't, but that doesn't
Edit.
Edited by Prof Prolapse on Thursday 12th August 09:31
Prof Prolapse said:
<edited for brevity>
You have a right to decline a vaccine, no one is suggesting you don't, but that doesn't make it a stupid decision, and it seems fair and right that the government should not support such decisions at the expense of those of us who are acting in accordance with the best guidance available.
It's good that you accept that declining the vaccine is not stupid; that's a change in tone from your usual "I respect your choice but it's a moronic one" line.You have a right to decline a vaccine, no one is suggesting you don't, but that doesn't make it a stupid decision, and it seems fair and right that the government should not support such decisions at the expense of those of us who are acting in accordance with the best guidance available.
However, you say that the government should not support such decisions, which I find odd. I believe that each person's choice regarding the vaccine should be none of the government's business, beyond providing facts and a recommendation.
What concerns me is the government's continuing use of behavioural psychology designed to scare people into making the "correct" decision. For example, the thinly veiled threat to enforce Covid passports for nightclubs "and other large events". Given that the vaccinated can still transmit the virus, a vaccine passport makes no sense, and can only be yet another example of the campaign of fear employed by this government. Discrimination against those who have declined the vaccine is, in my opinion, morally wrong.
Brave Fart said:
What concerns me is the government's continuing use of behavioural psychology designed to scare people into making the "correct" decision. For example, the thinly veiled threat to enforce Covid passports for nightclubs "and other large events". Given that the vaccinated can still transmit the virus, a vaccine passport makes no sense, and can only be yet another example of the campaign of fear employed by this government. Discrimination against those who have declined the vaccine is, in my opinion, morally wrong.
You do get why they would like Covid passports don’t you? Prof Prolapse said:
So despite recommendations by impartial experts, senior medics and scientists, you don't see what's in it for you personally, you don't care about what role you have in the success of the vaccine programme, and you've spat the dummy because an entirely unrelated part of the government is doing something you don't like.
That's because there's nothing in it for me personally (other than avoiding the coercive element). I won't have a role in the success or otherwise of the vaccine programme regardless of my choices, because my age group was never the one at risk. And I'd suggest by your posting frequency in these threads that it's you who has spat the dummy. Indeed, I think anyone that wants a vaccine should get one. I do not make it my business to tell others what to do and that they're stupid if they don't.
I've seen you telling people that they can't comprehend statistics and yet it's you who seems the most incapable.
Prof Prolapse said:
We are in the midst of the largest global pandemic for over a hundred years. 4.3 million people have died with the virus to date, global economies have been shattered, trillions have been lost, and the only way out of this is a vaccination programme. Whilst nothing is without risk, the vaccine is safe, and much safer than COVID for you personally, our best data and medical knowledge supports this. It also suggests that we all have a role to play in supporting the vaccination programme, but this is admittedly less certain.
This paragraph is such regurgitated rubbish I'm not sure where to begin.Many dead, trashed economy, only way out is vaccines, take the vaccine, its safer than Covid..... Did you even read my last post?
witko999 said:
This paragraph is such regurgitated rubbish I'm not sure where to begin.
Many dead, trashed economy, only way out is vaccines, take the vaccine, its safer than Covid..... Did you even read my last post?
I think you feel too invincible. Now my friends group is all 23-32 and 2 of them have got life changing damage from covid. I personally don't want any of that... No matter how small the risk the vaccine risk is much smaller. Seeing my mate go down with it bad at the start of it was scary.. then another recently got hit and still has no voice and permanently damaged lungs. First had no choice, 2nd made a choice of no vaccine, wonder what state he'd be in now if had one. Guess we'll never know but personally never say never. Many dead, trashed economy, only way out is vaccines, take the vaccine, its safer than Covid..... Did you even read my last post?
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