Grover's Goals
Discussion
I was going to pop this in the transformation thread but as I've had to drop out I thought I'd better start a fresh one.
About eight years ago I bought Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle (BFFM) by Tom Venuto. It was a revelation to me in many respects and I had great success with it. After several years of wasting my time and money at the gym, BFFM laid out exactly what to do and how to do it. At the time, I pretty much ignored all the goal-setting* 'nonsense' and NLP* jargon and got on pretty well. For a while.
Unfortunately, as I'd been quite successful, i.e. gained a pretty good physique and low BF, I became lazy thinking I'd accomplished my goal, time to relax. Big mistake.
It takes a while to realise how insidious the decline can be; after a couple of years of still going to the gym, but not working as hard or as regularly, and my diet slowly but surely getting worse and worse I'd lost most of my hard-earned gains and my BF had soared to c. 25%.
This is the silly part - I then started trawling the internet for the new, next best thing - a shortcut to my former glories.
It's just occurred to me - I had the answer all the time; BFFM.
BFFM is not a gimmick, it's what we all know and many coaches and experienced trainers know, including many here at PH. For whatever reason, many of us, myself included, think there is a secret or shortcut to health, fitness and well being. There isn't any, unless it's work hard, eat well, rest properly and don't deviate.
BFFM is not the only one by a long chalk, I'm sure there are plenty of others, maybe better programs, but I know BFFM works for ME, because it can work for pretty much everyone. You just have to DO it. Reading, understanding, accepting, etc. is all well and good, but unless you walk the walk, you're going to get less than you could, maybe nothing.
If I weren't so embarassed, I'd be going back through my posts over the last year or two and either deleting or editing them. I've regurgitated, spouted and hypothesised some guff. Sorry PHers.
Grover's Goals:
I'd appreciate feedback on my goals as I'm not sure whether it's feasible to make such a dramatic change in such a short time (at my age).
For my goals; lots of light cardio, eat clean & well, lift heavy things with good form and plenty of rest.
Once my hernia's fixed I'll be back on BFFM with a vengence and I'll show some of you young whippersnappers what it's all about.
NB. I have no connection with Tom Venuto or his books, just a grateful subscriber.
About eight years ago I bought Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle (BFFM) by Tom Venuto. It was a revelation to me in many respects and I had great success with it. After several years of wasting my time and money at the gym, BFFM laid out exactly what to do and how to do it. At the time, I pretty much ignored all the goal-setting* 'nonsense' and NLP* jargon and got on pretty well. For a while.
Unfortunately, as I'd been quite successful, i.e. gained a pretty good physique and low BF, I became lazy thinking I'd accomplished my goal, time to relax. Big mistake.
It takes a while to realise how insidious the decline can be; after a couple of years of still going to the gym, but not working as hard or as regularly, and my diet slowly but surely getting worse and worse I'd lost most of my hard-earned gains and my BF had soared to c. 25%.
This is the silly part - I then started trawling the internet for the new, next best thing - a shortcut to my former glories.
It's just occurred to me - I had the answer all the time; BFFM. BFFM is not a gimmick, it's what we all know and many coaches and experienced trainers know, including many here at PH. For whatever reason, many of us, myself included, think there is a secret or shortcut to health, fitness and well being. There isn't any, unless it's work hard, eat well, rest properly and don't deviate.
BFFM is not the only one by a long chalk, I'm sure there are plenty of others, maybe better programs, but I know BFFM works for ME, because it can work for pretty much everyone. You just have to DO it. Reading, understanding, accepting, etc. is all well and good, but unless you walk the walk, you're going to get less than you could, maybe nothing.
If I weren't so embarassed, I'd be going back through my posts over the last year or two and either deleting or editing them. I've regurgitated, spouted and hypothesised some guff. Sorry PHers.
Grover's Goals:
| Date | Weight | BF | Waist |
|---|---|---|---|
| Now | 90kgs | 16% | 36" |
| 11/8/12 | 89kgs | 14% | 34" |
| 3/11/12 | 88kgs | 12% | 32" |
| 26/1/13 | 87kgs | 10% | 30" |
I'd appreciate feedback on my goals as I'm not sure whether it's feasible to make such a dramatic change in such a short time (at my age).
For my goals; lots of light cardio, eat clean & well, lift heavy things with good form and plenty of rest.
Once my hernia's fixed I'll be back on BFFM with a vengence and I'll show some of you young whippersnappers what it's all about.
NB. I have no connection with Tom Venuto or his books, just a grateful subscriber.
* This time I'm taking it on board. It may be very 'merkan and un-British but I see great value in it now.
I'm keeping moving with light weights so DOMS shouldn't be too bad. Probably. 
I'm 186cms (6'1" in old money).
It's a way off yet so still planning what I'm going to do, which is a nice luxury. Because I'm going for fat loss rather than muscle building I'll be doing cardio 4-5 times/week 20-60 mins at a time and likely a three day split three times a week - one day a week off from everything.
Once BF down to 10% I'll look at reducing cardio, increasing the weights and food.
I'm 186cms (6'1" in old money).
It's a way off yet so still planning what I'm going to do, which is a nice luxury. Because I'm going for fat loss rather than muscle building I'll be doing cardio 4-5 times/week 20-60 mins at a time and likely a three day split three times a week - one day a week off from everything.
Once BF down to 10% I'll look at reducing cardio, increasing the weights and food.
This is why I queried the feasibility.
My calculations show a reduction in fat of 5.7kgs (possible?) increase in LBM of 2.7kgs (too much?).
I'm deliberately setting a difficult target, there's no point in aiming low. However, if it's not achievable, that's probably even worse - just letting myself in for defeat.
My calculations show a reduction in fat of 5.7kgs (possible?) increase in LBM of 2.7kgs (too much?).
I'm deliberately setting a difficult target, there's no point in aiming low. However, if it's not achievable, that's probably even worse - just letting myself in for defeat.
I agree, but you tell me where to find someone who is skilled/experienced enough to be more consistent than me. I've tried two PTs at local gym, not only were their measurements inconsistent with each other, but with themselves just a week later. Clueless chumps.
I'm happy that I am consistent enough to get a reliable reading, month-on-month - whether the percentage figure is accurate is not really important to me - it's the downward trend that I'm looking for.
FWIW I have a half decent set of calipers which I could use to grab a few more pinches myself like thigh and abs, but the useful ones at tricep, subscapular and chest are next to impossible to do oneself.
I'm happy that I am consistent enough to get a reliable reading, month-on-month - whether the percentage figure is accurate is not really important to me - it's the downward trend that I'm looking for.
FWIW I have a half decent set of calipers which I could use to grab a few more pinches myself like thigh and abs, but the useful ones at tricep, subscapular and chest are next to impossible to do oneself.
BenM77 said:
I don't think your goals are unrealistic but am interested in the method you will use. For example, to get to your end goal you can't just cut as you are aiming to put on muscle. would you be better off going on a lean bulk first before cutting to 10% ?
Genuinely interested as to me it is one or the other, gain weight or lose weight. It will be good to hear the advice you get for achieving your end goal
I'm concerned about it too. The more important thing, especially as I'll be recuperating for a while at the start, is fat loss so if a little muscle/LBM is lost on the way, so be it.Genuinely interested as to me it is one or the other, gain weight or lose weight. It will be good to hear the advice you get for achieving your end goal
Clearly not going to post everything I eat, but today for example:
0630 Breakfast
sweet potato & egg omelette
0930
grilled salmon steak
sweet potato
carrots
leeks
1300 Lunch
grilled turkey breast
brown rice
broccoli
carrots
pear
1600
grilled salmon steak
sweet potato
broccoli
leeks
1830 post gym
tin of tuna
banana
2000 supper
grilled chicken breast
red cabbage
c. 2,200kcals. The salmon meant fat content a little high today at the expense of carbs, but I don't usually have salmon twice a day.
Very much so, but not ideal fuel for the 6kms treadmill tonight. 
TBH, I don't much care. I do it for the reason above.
I need food to live and so long as my expenditure exceeds consumption I'll end up in the right direction. I'm not doing anything extreme like marathon running, nor do I plan to so so.
If I'm looking to build muscle I'll increase protein at the expense of carbs and if I want accessible energy for cardio then carbs increase at the expense of protein. Fats typically remain constant -ish at 20-25% kcals.
I need food to live and so long as my expenditure exceeds consumption I'll end up in the right direction. I'm not doing anything extreme like marathon running, nor do I plan to so so.
If I'm looking to build muscle I'll increase protein at the expense of carbs and if I want accessible energy for cardio then carbs increase at the expense of protein. Fats typically remain constant -ish at 20-25% kcals.
goldblum said:
If you want a measurement that can be used to accurately calculate lean muscle mass/muscle density/bf gains or losses you might ask someone to take the measurements at 4 or 7 locations..given your age, height, weight and waist and current situation vis a vis taking it relatively easy I would be extremely surprised if you're bf is below 23%.This is very important to know accurately..the accuracy of which improves in proportion to the number of locations used for the skin fold test.If you don't do this properly you will be like a blind man blundering about in the dark...You need to set an accurate baseline by which any change can be measured against.
goldblum said:
I would suggest asking for help from a friend and showing them the correct way to do the skin fold test.You'd only have to show them once and they could help with any subsequent measurements.Obviously you'd have to offer them something in return.
I've done a few sums and now appreciate why it's so important. Duh!If I accept my 16% figure, my 'ideal' weight at 10% BF and starting at 90kgs would be 87kgs.
If it is in actual fact 20% then ideal would be 80kgs and if it's actually 25% then 75kgs.
Basing this on Current LBM/(1 - Target %BF)
Guess I'll have to get it checked out properly.
Thanks for keeping on, I was just discounting it out of hand as I just had numbers to compare.
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