Just drove an Evora...
Discussion
kevin ritson said:
Twit said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
Didn't want to waste their time driving a car I wouldn't buy. Genuinely, I was that disappointed by the overall package. Frustrating when there was such potential to get it right.
Without wishing to labour point I have made elsewhere, this is exactly what Lotus have under-estimated. It is a flawed concept let alone a failure to meet the concept, it won't matter how well it drives if it does not meet a buyers needs! Simply being good to drive will not sell cars in this market segment.I think these two reviews have been more balanced and 'real world' than the journalistic waffle in the mags, the basis that they judge the car on is not the same as buyers will use.
Edited by kevin ritson on Wednesday 10th June 21:22
Oh, sorry wrong thread! I can't keep up with them all...
Nice post Kevin.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Of course I care how my cars drive but I'm not going to buy any car whose packaging makes no sense regardless of how well it might drive. A Noble is as a Noble does. A 911 is as a 911 does. I'm just not clear what the Evora is trying to be or do. Right now I have access to a 2 seater and a 4 seater, both of which have a clear purpose. I don't feel the need to acquire a large and expensive car with compromised styling and rear accomodation fit only for diminutive amputees. Show me an attractive Lotus 2-seater with the same V6 engine and a sensible price tag and I'll be right there at the front of the queue. Meantime I'm looking elsewhere.
Out of interest; what do you think a 911 does that an Evora doesn't? The boot in a 911 is hardly huge (it's a rather different shape to the Evora's but I don't think there's much difference in size) and the 911's rear seats are useless for carrying anyone other than very small children or paraplegics. If I'm driving a 911 my seat-back all but touches the rear seats. Add to that the fact that the Evora apparently handles better than the 911; rides better than the 911; and (IMHO) looks better than the 911; and is cheaper than a 911...
If I may step in at this point...
having owned a 996, well, this is why i used it as a reference point in the first post here...
The rear seats - well, they are slightly bigger in a 996 - i could sit behind my drivers seat with my head resting on the roof - the Evora, while its a bench (rather than 2 seats seperated by a transmission tunnel) which is more practical for carrying "things" on, with the drivers seat fully forward, I had to have my knees either side of the drivers seat, and i was crushed down.
I dont think anyone over 5' tall could fit in the back of the Evora for more than a few minutes.
As for handling better, hard to say, its a subjective thing - the Evora had a stunning turn-in, and did handle beautifully - but the 911 is sublime...
Yes, the Evora rode over bad roads amazingly, thats its party piece - it manages to glide over rough road services, and you feel in complete control...
Looks, again subjective, and its not that much cheaper really...
Performance wise though, I think the 911 is faster, it certainly feels it, and im confident around a track the 911 would easily stay ahead of the Evora in its current guise.
having owned a 996, well, this is why i used it as a reference point in the first post here...
The rear seats - well, they are slightly bigger in a 996 - i could sit behind my drivers seat with my head resting on the roof - the Evora, while its a bench (rather than 2 seats seperated by a transmission tunnel) which is more practical for carrying "things" on, with the drivers seat fully forward, I had to have my knees either side of the drivers seat, and i was crushed down.
I dont think anyone over 5' tall could fit in the back of the Evora for more than a few minutes.
As for handling better, hard to say, its a subjective thing - the Evora had a stunning turn-in, and did handle beautifully - but the 911 is sublime...
Yes, the Evora rode over bad roads amazingly, thats its party piece - it manages to glide over rough road services, and you feel in complete control...
Looks, again subjective, and its not that much cheaper really...
Performance wise though, I think the 911 is faster, it certainly feels it, and im confident around a track the 911 would easily stay ahead of the Evora in its current guise.
I thought the price difference was quite substantial if you compared like-for-like spec-wise?
I'm by no means trying to say that the Evora is better than the 911, I'd have to drive one myself to make that decision. I'm just saying that someone writing it off as worse having not driven it seems rather silly.
I'm by no means trying to say that the Evora is better than the 911, I'd have to drive one myself to make that decision. I'm just saying that someone writing it off as worse having not driven it seems rather silly.
Edited by kambites on Thursday 11th June 10:51
i agree completley.
its why i drove one, and i liked it...
I see what you mean on the pricing though, a base Evora is £54k, a base 997 C2 is £59... specced up the Evora is up at £65k whereas you can probably put the porsche past £70k if you got tick happy on the options list..
However, I could pick up a 997 for as little as £30k today... and probably get a good £5k discount off a new one. I cant see you getting an Evora for less than £60k for at least the next 12 months.
and as much as i hate to say it (after all, i loved my elise, and have a huge respect for what the guys in a shed in Hethel are capable of) the Porsche is the better car.
its why i drove one, and i liked it...
I see what you mean on the pricing though, a base Evora is £54k, a base 997 C2 is £59... specced up the Evora is up at £65k whereas you can probably put the porsche past £70k if you got tick happy on the options list..
However, I could pick up a 997 for as little as £30k today... and probably get a good £5k discount off a new one. I cant see you getting an Evora for less than £60k for at least the next 12 months.
and as much as i hate to say it (after all, i loved my elise, and have a huge respect for what the guys in a shed in Hethel are capable of) the Porsche is the better car.
I thought the base price for the Evora was under 50k?
It is 49K for the base spec car, but that basically comes with nothing, by time you spec the bare minimum of options - which you will need to simply to get in the car - it will come in about 55K. The launch ones have a lot of options ticked, but not all of them hence the 60K price. You simply cannot get one sub 50K, that was the point made on drivers republic if you read their review. Somewhere on here I posted what the basic price options were as I had the price list.
No matter what anybody says this car is 55k in base spec and then you move up - its too expensive!
Edited, found the prices:
49k base
tec pack - 2,495.00
the premium pack - 2495.00
sports pack - 950.00.
I think the car would have bad residuals without those.
So that is 49k to start, plus 6k for essential options and then another 2-3k for paint and wheels should you want - looking at the other Lotus cars I guess you would.
That comes in at 54K with the options but base cosmetic spec; with a decent colour and say black wheels add another 2-3k so 56-57K
Those prices are based in the price list I was sent last month.
No matter what anybody says this car is 55k in base spec and then you move up - its too expensive!
Edited, found the prices:
49k base
tec pack - 2,495.00
the premium pack - 2495.00
sports pack - 950.00.
I think the car would have bad residuals without those.
So that is 49k to start, plus 6k for essential options and then another 2-3k for paint and wheels should you want - looking at the other Lotus cars I guess you would.
That comes in at 54K with the options but base cosmetic spec; with a decent colour and say black wheels add another 2-3k so 56-57K
Those prices are based in the price list I was sent last month.
Edited by Twit on Thursday 11th June 11:32
Edited by Twit on Thursday 11th June 11:36
47k is for one without back seats; 49k is for one with - that really is bascially engine, shell and seats!! Maybe not wheels though 
You really need to see what comes with each pack, it is basic stuff. I guess you could get one without the packs, but be prepared for it to be worth about 50p in 3 years time. Boring I know, but if you are spending the cash you want to at least protect some of the investment!
A good example of the pricing is like the mini. You can get a base mini without all the packs, but those cars simply do not exist! You have to have all the different packs to prevent being well and truly shafted when you come to sell it on. Porsche is the same, how many truly bog standard cars do you see on the used market? Very few, if any; its bacause if you want residuals there are some options you have to take!
The launch cars have a fair number of the options ticked but not all of them!!
You really need to see what comes with each pack, it is basic stuff. I guess you could get one without the packs, but be prepared for it to be worth about 50p in 3 years time. Boring I know, but if you are spending the cash you want to at least protect some of the investment!
A good example of the pricing is like the mini. You can get a base mini without all the packs, but those cars simply do not exist! You have to have all the different packs to prevent being well and truly shafted when you come to sell it on. Porsche is the same, how many truly bog standard cars do you see on the used market? Very few, if any; its bacause if you want residuals there are some options you have to take!
The launch cars have a fair number of the options ticked but not all of them!!
Edited by Twit on Thursday 11th June 11:47
I think the difference between base and top spec Lotus is much narrower than base and top spec Porsche - and the prices match that. You can add 20K+ to a Porsche if you get spec happy, only about 15K to an Evora.
Certainly, the Evora comes with aircon, leather, multi cd player, traction control and so on as standard. You don't have to pay a premium to get 'sports' seats like you would on the Porsche.
Personally though, I'd rather work the other way - see how much I want to spend and test drive a few cars in that region. Some will have strengths that the others don't. But you can't really judge how suitable a car is for you until you've tried out a few alternatives. After all, everyone said that the Cayman handling was excellent until the Evora came along. Now journalists are describing it as 'heavy' and 'dull' compared to the Lotus.
When you're actually sitting in the driver's seat you can decide if the downsides are so bad that you wouldn't want the car - and all cars have down sides. Doing it on paper makes no sense when you're talking about the sports end of the market where passion and excitement are such an important part of the deal. Sit in it and see if it makes you feel good.
As for residuals, the first couple of years' production of Evoras are going to remain pretty exclusive. I wouldn't want to have picked up a Cayman in the last 12 months when the dealers have been so keen to drop prices to get sales and the classifieds are full of second hand ones.
Certainly, the Evora comes with aircon, leather, multi cd player, traction control and so on as standard. You don't have to pay a premium to get 'sports' seats like you would on the Porsche.
Personally though, I'd rather work the other way - see how much I want to spend and test drive a few cars in that region. Some will have strengths that the others don't. But you can't really judge how suitable a car is for you until you've tried out a few alternatives. After all, everyone said that the Cayman handling was excellent until the Evora came along. Now journalists are describing it as 'heavy' and 'dull' compared to the Lotus.
When you're actually sitting in the driver's seat you can decide if the downsides are so bad that you wouldn't want the car - and all cars have down sides. Doing it on paper makes no sense when you're talking about the sports end of the market where passion and excitement are such an important part of the deal. Sit in it and see if it makes you feel good.
As for residuals, the first couple of years' production of Evoras are going to remain pretty exclusive. I wouldn't want to have picked up a Cayman in the last 12 months when the dealers have been so keen to drop prices to get sales and the classifieds are full of second hand ones.
>>"49k base
tec pack - 2,495.00
the premium pack - 2495.00
sports pack - 950.00.
I think the car would have bad residuals without those. "
You think, I think.....
Even on Porsches' (according to a Porsche salesman friend of mine at an OPC) you loose most of the money on options and standard cars sell well enough (edited: but not in the current climate...) as long as they are in a sensible normal person colour and have FPSH. Even 997s... Porsche salesman and garages like to propigate the myth 'cos the markup on options is so high....
I'd spec mine with seats and sports pack and try and get a momo prototipo fitted at the factory... I wouldn't want leather or toys on mine.
tec pack - 2,495.00
the premium pack - 2495.00
sports pack - 950.00.
I think the car would have bad residuals without those. "
You think, I think.....
Even on Porsches' (according to a Porsche salesman friend of mine at an OPC) you loose most of the money on options and standard cars sell well enough (edited: but not in the current climate...) as long as they are in a sensible normal person colour and have FPSH. Even 997s... Porsche salesman and garages like to propigate the myth 'cos the markup on options is so high....
I'd spec mine with seats and sports pack and try and get a momo prototipo fitted at the factory... I wouldn't want leather or toys on mine.
Edited by dom180 on Thursday 11th June 23:58
Edited by dom180 on Friday 12th June 00:03
Well
Drove Castle's demonstrator today and without doubt the Evora is the best Car I've ever driven. Quicker than a Cayman S, more involved than a 911 C2, build quality has moved on again since the latest Europa, Elise etc but I'd agree not as good as a Porsche
Forget what anyone else says, if you like sports cars and you want something special you will buy it! You don't need to tick all the options and for 55k you can get everything you need.
Problem = Cost £££ I do agree it is too expensive but what do you want? The car's made in England employing local people keeping British job's secure, we all moan when job's are disappearing over seas Delhi, China etc well we have to pay proper money in this country so that's why I suppose
Would or will we buy, wouldn't even hesitate the Car is out of this world
Don't say anything until you've driven it because you will end up eating your words
Boggy
Drove Castle's demonstrator today and without doubt the Evora is the best Car I've ever driven. Quicker than a Cayman S, more involved than a 911 C2, build quality has moved on again since the latest Europa, Elise etc but I'd agree not as good as a Porsche
Forget what anyone else says, if you like sports cars and you want something special you will buy it! You don't need to tick all the options and for 55k you can get everything you need.
Problem = Cost £££ I do agree it is too expensive but what do you want? The car's made in England employing local people keeping British job's secure, we all moan when job's are disappearing over seas Delhi, China etc well we have to pay proper money in this country so that's why I suppose
Would or will we buy, wouldn't even hesitate the Car is out of this world
Don't say anything until you've driven it because you will end up eating your words
Boggy
Edited by Boggy on Saturday 13th June 21:08
I'm afraid i agree wholeheartedly with Raja, early on page 1. The convertible can't come out quick enough.
I'm not a Lotus owner, and possibly may never be, but as a car enthusiast i sincerely want to see Lotus succeed, it's very, very important that they do, imo.
But i'm struggling with the Evora as it is right now. Guys, i've waited a while before saying this, but honestly,the car is not a great looker. I saw one this morning going round a roundabout, and held the guy up behind me whilst i sat and watched the Evora for as long as i could, wanting to tell myself that there's a great looking car right there. But it wasn't. It isn't. Me and a couple of pals had a good look at the Evoras that were at the Elise Garden Party. We all had to agree that whilst there are some nice styling touches, overall it is a tad bland.
I think the styling has been compromised by those rear 'seats', and those rear seats serve no purpose whatsoever, imo.
However, they provide space for a power roof to drop down into, plus some space to drop bits and bobs into when out and about in the car with the roof down. I believe if the engine is supercharged too, the car will be a big, big seller. My only worry is if the cars sublime ride/handling compromise (which must be the best in the world, surely?) suffers in the conversion, though given the nature of the cars construction, i'll be surprised if it did.
The only purpose those rear seats serve is to carry luggage, but who wants luggage in the car with them? (Having said that, the boot isn't so bad - 2 reasonable soft bags would go in side by side i would have thought, with lots of loose items around them).
I don't see the price as a problem myself, not for the next 3 years or so anyway. For me the bigger problem is, once the Lotus fans have bought up, will the rest of the car-buying public 'get' the car?
I'm not a Lotus owner, and possibly may never be, but as a car enthusiast i sincerely want to see Lotus succeed, it's very, very important that they do, imo.
But i'm struggling with the Evora as it is right now. Guys, i've waited a while before saying this, but honestly,the car is not a great looker. I saw one this morning going round a roundabout, and held the guy up behind me whilst i sat and watched the Evora for as long as i could, wanting to tell myself that there's a great looking car right there. But it wasn't. It isn't. Me and a couple of pals had a good look at the Evoras that were at the Elise Garden Party. We all had to agree that whilst there are some nice styling touches, overall it is a tad bland.
I think the styling has been compromised by those rear 'seats', and those rear seats serve no purpose whatsoever, imo.
However, they provide space for a power roof to drop down into, plus some space to drop bits and bobs into when out and about in the car with the roof down. I believe if the engine is supercharged too, the car will be a big, big seller. My only worry is if the cars sublime ride/handling compromise (which must be the best in the world, surely?) suffers in the conversion, though given the nature of the cars construction, i'll be surprised if it did.
The only purpose those rear seats serve is to carry luggage, but who wants luggage in the car with them? (Having said that, the boot isn't so bad - 2 reasonable soft bags would go in side by side i would have thought, with lots of loose items around them).
I don't see the price as a problem myself, not for the next 3 years or so anyway. For me the bigger problem is, once the Lotus fans have bought up, will the rest of the car-buying public 'get' the car?
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