Just drove an Evora...

[dom180]

Car companies don't really make any money these days so ownership is pretty much irrelevant - Hethel gains most from Lotus rather than the shareholders forever writing off debts. :-)

[Fidgits]

Right, so it's okay that lotus is Malaysian owned because hethel benifits, but it's not okay that Honda is Japanese owned, even if Swindon benifits?

I'm sorry your argument just doesn't wash.

[dom180]

Fidgits said:

Right, so it's okay that lotus is Malaysian owned because hethel benifits, but it's not okay that Honda is Japanese owned, even if Swindon benifits?

I'm sorry your argument just doesn't wash.

I'm equally relaxed about the ownership of either - market forces operating well - in both cases significant gains come to both Swindon and Hethel. In Lotus' case, as they add higher value work including design, more gains acrue to them.

[Boggy]

NoelWatson said:

Boggy said:

NoelWatson said:

Boggy said:

Quicker than a Cayman S

Are Lotus being coy with the power claim, as the Porsche is supposed to have 320bhp? Did you drive the PDK Cayman?

I've driven 3 now (Cayman's) Fantastic Car's they are, I'm not knocking them in anyway just simply saying that the Evora is quicker

08 Cayman 2.7
07 Cayman S
58 Cayman S Sports

Not sure about the power claim that Lotus are making but it feel's much more powerful than the figures quoted??? really impressed

Boggy

So you haven't driven the new Cayman S?

I'm afraid I haven't, the last Cayman I drove was the Cayman S Sports but it didn't have the PDK gearbox

Boggy

[chevronb37]

I'm having a drive in an Evora on Saturday while the Elise has its MOT. Really looking forward to it. I don't expect something as pointy and tactile as the Elise, but I'm sure it will prove a delightful place to eat up the miles over any road, especially poor surfaces - of which Leeds has many. I'll add my thoughts over the weekend.

[beady]

I drove both an Evora and then a new 911 yesterday to compare.
The stats say both are 4.9secs 0-60 and they both felt about the same.
The evora had much lighter steering and the brakes were miles better than the 911.
So as a pure driving experience i would say the evora wins.
However the 911 did have a better soundtrack.
Rear seats are for kids in both but those in the 911 seemed slightly lager.

I did the costs with options i would want and i can get the evora for £55k.
The porche was just over £65k
I was being mean on options to keep costs down but did put satnav on the porche but not the evora - i think the re-sale requirements demand it on a porche but with so few evoras being sold i think you can live without it on the lotus.

Looks are subjective so you either like the evora/911 or you dont...

My main concern is that the 911 looks like a £50k+ motor and it has a quality feel.
I am not fully convinced the Evora looks like a £50k car.

You will get huge exclusivity in the Evora for less money than the 911 but i cant help thinking it is still just a little bit over-priced - perhaps £5k too much.

would love to buy the evora but not 100% sure

[NoelWatson]

beady said:

However the 911 did have a better soundtrack.

That is interesting because IIRC Autocar were saying the Evora had an NSX-like soundtrack, and the 997s (Gen1) I have been in sounded nowhere near as good as an NSX.

[KelWedge]

Ok So I do like Lotus to, !
The first time I saw an Evora I went OOPS pity shame etc etc,

They do grow on you, Now they look very good, time will tell. Better than the porch anytime.

Ps I have seen several Evora, Lotus being 5 miles up the road !

[bordseye]

beady said:

You will get huge exclusivity in the Evora for less money than the 911 but i cant help thinking it is still just a little bit over-priced - perhaps £5k too much.

The Evora will be a lot rarer than the 911 but not "exclusive" in the sense of being both desireable to and unobtainable by Mr Average. And that of course is the problem with the 911 - damn near every dentist and estate agent has one. They are not much more exclusive than 3 series.

The Evora like the Elise etc is an enthusiasts car. People will buy it because its a Lotus and not a Porker. There wont be a lot of people doing so but then Lotus dont need a lot to buy one for it to succeed.

In contrast, whilst some enthusiasts will buy a 911 I reckon most people who do so new do it as a status symbol. They cant quite stretch to a Ferrari so they settle for being seen in a Porker instead.

As for the price, well yes it is overpriced compared to the Boxster as indeed is the 911.

[chevronb37]

Really enjoyed driving it. For my tastes it is a little too refined and not quite quick enough in a straight line. However the ride and stability are absolutely awesome. It just glides everywhere and you can get hard on the throttle not matter what the surface. Very impressive machine indeed. I look forward to driving an Evora R with 350bhp and the soundtrack to match; that will be something pretty special - it will easily handle the power.

[bertie]

Fidgits said:

heebeegeetee said:

dom180 said:

Fidgits said:

i'm sorry, if your main argument for buying a car is that its built in britain then you should be buying Honda's and Nissan's - they employ far more people than Lotus in this country...

Edited by Fidgits on Monday 15th June 07:05

It wasn't my main arguement for buying one - I just noted that it's funny how little the fact that it's designed and built in the UK, seems to matter to most people.

My main reason for being interested in it, is the great reception the car's received from the World press. But if it also means not supporting German industry, so much the better!

You're going to be supporting the japanese industry though, like it or not.

It's a good job the japs and germans did come here if you ask me, and show us how a car industry should be managed. God knows what we'd have done if they hadn't.

I'm sorry - remind me what the difference is between supporting a Japanese and Malaysian company? Or is it just because Lotus used to be british that I should be supporting them?

Lotus do design and engineer the cars here, plus whilst some parts, most notably engine, may come from Japan or wherever it'a assembled, the vast majority of parts for the Lotus are also designed and manufactured in the UK.

I'm afraid the other large car assemblers design and source almost nothing in the UK. Almost every single supplier is Japanese, even if they have a site in the UK.

[bordseye]

Fidgits said:

I think you missed my point.

Is lotus not owned by proton, a Malaysian company? So there is no real difference.

If you really want to support a british motor manufacturer you should buy a noble or atom...

The difference Figits is that Lotus is a British company with Malaysian shareholders - ie it designs and manufactures its own products. Honda and Nissan are screwdriver assembly plants - all the technology and design in Japan with just the oik jobs for the Brits.

Its a fine distinction but what really matters is where the skills lie. And with Lotus that is the UK, with the others - Japan.

[Stu_00]

If you turn up at a track, with 911 well, your just be someone.

With Evora you will be part of the Lotus club, and that is a nice place to be. People in general are outgoing, friendly and interested.

Again visit Europe and 911 are just the focus of the middle class. Evora will be looked at very well and as such you will be let out all the time, people giving you the tumbs up etc.

Basically everyone will think your a petrolhead rather than a business man. As such people seem to respect you a bit more.

I probably would like drive a 911, but really not sure I have a massive urge to get one unless it has GT3 on it or GT3RS and I can drive like a racing driver, becasue trust me everyone will be trying to race you !

GET THE EVORA!

beady said:

I drove both an Evora and then a new 911 yesterday to compare.
The stats say both are 4.9secs 0-60 and they both felt about the same.
The evora had much lighter steering and the brakes were miles better than the 911.
So as a pure driving experience i would say the evora wins.
However the 911 did have a better soundtrack.
Rear seats are for kids in both but those in the 911 seemed slightly lager.

I did the costs with options i would want and i can get the evora for £55k.
The porche was just over £65k
I was being mean on options to keep costs down but did put satnav on the porche but not the evora - i think the re-sale requirements demand it on a porche but with so few evoras being sold i think you can live without it on the lotus.

Looks are subjective so you either like the evora/911 or you dont...

My main concern is that the 911 looks like a £50k+ motor and it has a quality feel.
I am not fully convinced the Evora looks like a £50k car.

You will get huge exclusivity in the Evora for less money than the 911 but i cant help thinking it is still just a little bit over-priced - perhaps £5k too much.

would love to buy the evora but not 100% sure

[shoestring7]

bordseye said:

Honda and Nissan are screwdriver assembly plants - all the technology and design in Japan with just the oik jobs for the Brits.

I'm not sure my mate, a member of the Honda Europe engineering team that developed the Euro-only Civic would really agree with you there.

SS7

[bertie]

shoestring7 said:

bordseye said:

Honda and Nissan are screwdriver assembly plants - all the technology and design in Japan with just the oik jobs for the Brits.

I'm not sure my mate, a member of the Honda Europe engineering team that developed the Euro-only Civic would really agree with you there.

SS7

The people I know at HRE UK are quite open about the fact all the engineering comes from Japan with local homologation assisted by Belguim.

[Redlake27]

I've just had 45 minutes in an Evora.

I was hugely impressed with its turn-in ability. It resists understeer superbly. The engine is torquey, characterful and flexible. It is also effortlessly quick.

The high 6th gear is a fantastic cruising gear. 2k rpm at 80mph. I'd be interested in knowing its real-world motorway MPG. (Actually, I wouldn't - that's too boring)

The boot looks small, but then the backseat offers a far better boot than most rivals.

However, its strongest point is the supple, composed ride. It means you can attack cambered, bumpy B-roads in a way that would be familiar to Elise owners.

The only negative was a notchy gearshift and rear visibility that is far inferior to the Cayman, Europa and Elise.

My overall verdict: It feels like a Lotus should. It is effortless, but has pace that puts any doubts over its power-to-weight ratio to rest. A longer drive could convince me it is 'thrilling', but my initial verdict would be 'immensely satisfying and rewarding'. I'd certainly part with £35K for one.......

[chandrew]

Here in Switzerland Lotus are taking advantage of the exchange rate and are pricing the basic Evora (in 2+0 format) just under the price of a Cayman S. Speaking to a local dealer yesterday who had 2 in his showroom, he said that most were being ordered without the rear seats (though the two cars were launch editions). Spec a new Porsche to a reasonable level and you'll add a decent amount more onto the cost. Caymans come with more of the 'basic' stuff on the option list than the 911 does. I think you'd probably be looking at an extra 10-15% for a reasonably specced car. I think you'd be looking at a similar percentage to get an Evora to a decent level.

[shoestring7]

chandrew said:

Here in Switzerland Lotus are taking advantage of the exchange rate and are pricing the basic Evora (in 2+0 format) just under the price of a Cayman S. Speaking to a local dealer yesterday who had 2 in his showroom, he said that most were being ordered without the rear seats (though the two cars were launch editions). Spec a new Porsche to a reasonable level and you'll add a decent amount more onto the cost. Caymans come with more of the 'basic' stuff on the option list than the 911 does. I think you'd probably be looking at an extra 10-15% for a reasonably specced car. I think you'd be looking at a similar percentage to get an Evora to a decent level.

It depends what you mean by a 'decent 'level'. I don't really understand the obssession with 'essential' options to ensure good re-sale. I don't know the details of the Evora but in my experience its not necessary to over-spec a Porsche. The Cayman S comes with leather, manual a/c, decent ICE, 18" alloys, sublime chassis and parsimonious 300+bhp engine. Add ~£200 for auto a/c and ~£600 for metallic silver (aren't they all?) paint and you're about done. Why wreck the ride with big wheels, or add a fairly useless sat-nav, or lots of added bits of leather? They don't add to the enjoyment, just Porsche AG's bottom line.

SS7

[chandrew]

Here in Switzerland the base Cayman S comes with simulated leater / alacantara. Anyway I quickly went through the config just as I had when discussing with the dealer about the C2 purchase last year. Options that I added were directional Xenons - for night driving passes, sports seats which means taking leather (not chosen the full leather), LSD, Sports Chrono - for increased slip angles from the traction contol, sports exhaust, metalic colour (though I'd possibly go white with side-scripts), tyre pressure monitoring (useful for unrestricted autobahn which is only 30km from my house), ipod connection and cruise control - mainly to avoid horrendous Swiss speed fines on the motorways). Total price - base car CHF 93,800 plus CHF 15,408.40 in options.

This would be way under the usual spec for a Swiss car where sat-nav would be seen as 'essential' and most would have PASM. Adding those would mean 22,743.30 in options. All that I suggested apart from the ipod connection I see as either increasing driving experience or increasing active safety. I would be ticking similar boxes on an Evora or even if I bought a BMW etc. Of course you'd probably get directional xenons or cruise or an ipod connection free on a Mondeo.

[Carl_Docklands]

NoelWatson said:

heebeegeetee said:

I think the styling has been compromised by those rear 'seats', and those rear seats serve no purpose whatsoever, imo.

Someone that currently has a 2 seat car but would like a 2+2 for a couple of kids under 2 years old may disagree.

And it is for this reason that i was also put off. I have a 15 month old daughter and I was in the market for a new car, preferably a 2+2 but I ended up compromising and going with a new Boxster as I could not settle on anything else in my budget range of £50k.

A new 911 with the spec i wanted was £70K ish. I am not too sure if the previous poster(s) who quoted costs for a 911 were looking at a second hand model but you are looking at £64k list+£10k of options minus any discount you can get.

If the Evora was a just a smidge better at the 2+2 thing i would have stretched for the extra money and gone for it at £55k. The reviews it has been getting on the drive have been fantastic though, maybe in 3 years my situation will be different and i will go for one.

PS. Not too sure how/why the Evora is being compared to the Cayman, when Evo are comparing it to the GT3. Surely the Evora is beyond the capabilities of the Cayman if Evo gave it the car of the year award....?

Edited by Carl_Docklands on Sunday 17th January 18:25