The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 10]
Discussion
m3sye said:
Tony Barrett - saying BR is talking out of his arse again lol
He says he could not be more sure that LFC were indeed in for Depay - wonder if he is just talking s
t or FSG have told him to say that so doesnt look like we keep losing out on players?
I can imagine it as us being in for him, but if the price went too much then just move on. He could be a very good player so worth a shot if we got him before others. However our main priorities are elsewhere, so if the price went too high then we'd drop out and use the money on more important things (like 1 or 3 strikers)! It also would force the hand of other clubs who might be interested to use money/ sign a player which could affect our higher priorities later...He says he could not be more sure that LFC were indeed in for Depay - wonder if he is just talking s
t or FSG have told him to say that so doesnt look like we keep losing out on players? Edited by NRS on Friday 8th May 17:04
m3sye said:
Tony Barrett - saying BR is talking out of his arse again lol
He says he could not be more sure that LFC were indeed in for Depay - wonder if he is just talking st or FSG have told him to say that so doesnt look like we keep losing out on players?
That's what I was getting at earlier, it has a ring of 'well I never fancied you anyway' to it. Just a bit childish and unnecessary, he should perhaps be showing Sterling some more love instead.He says he could not be more sure that LFC were indeed in for Depay - wonder if he is just talking s
t or FSG have told him to say that so doesnt look like we keep losing out on players? BR doesn't even know what positions need strengthening imo.
It's been said for some time now, we need to agree on a formation and fit the players to that. It has to be a
433 that can morph into a 4312.
We just don't have enough of
the players for either formation. We need 3 strong central midfielders in both styles. We currently have Lucas, Allen and a new Cann. We need 2 strong fullbacks. We don't have a single one that is capable of defending. When playing a 433 we need two strikers in the 3 who are dynamic. We have a rarely fit Sturridge. When playing 4312 for the hole player we have the options of Coutinho, Lallana and even Sterling.
We've been buying players without thinking how they'd fit in with the way we want to play, hence Mario and Lambert on the bench, hence Laser and even Lovren who needs 2 defensive midfielder in front of him to perform.
We need
1 keeper
1 centre back or recall Illori/Wisdom
2 full backs
2 centre midfielders
2 strikers
Clearly not all in the same window but over the next 3 windows, if we are to build a team that competes, we need to have a plan. Makes me wander what on earth has been going on so far. I'd sell/get rid of
Jones
Enrique
Johnson
Lovren
Coates
Toure
Allen
Laser
Aspas
Alberto
Lambert
Borini
Mario if we're not going to play 2 up front
I'd even consider offers Sterling or Lallana. We're not going to be able to fit all 3 of Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana in the same team. Lallana in hindsight was a luxury signing. He needs to play regularly and I don't think he will here. The attacking midfielder has to be built around Coutinho.
Sterling, if he doesn't want to be here, and we can get anything around 40 million for, I'd sell.
Tomorrow will be the last time that we see the team that BR built under the current approach play against the best. I expect a new approach being implemented over the summer and we move on from the failures of the past 3 seasons.
It's been said for some time now, we need to agree on a formation and fit the players to that. It has to be a
433 that can morph into a 4312.
We just don't have enough of
the players for either formation. We need 3 strong central midfielders in both styles. We currently have Lucas, Allen and a new Cann. We need 2 strong fullbacks. We don't have a single one that is capable of defending. When playing a 433 we need two strikers in the 3 who are dynamic. We have a rarely fit Sturridge. When playing 4312 for the hole player we have the options of Coutinho, Lallana and even Sterling.
We've been buying players without thinking how they'd fit in with the way we want to play, hence Mario and Lambert on the bench, hence Laser and even Lovren who needs 2 defensive midfielder in front of him to perform.
We need
1 keeper
1 centre back or recall Illori/Wisdom
2 full backs
2 centre midfielders
2 strikers
Clearly not all in the same window but over the next 3 windows, if we are to build a team that competes, we need to have a plan. Makes me wander what on earth has been going on so far. I'd sell/get rid of
Jones
Enrique
Johnson
Lovren
Coates
Toure
Allen
Laser
Aspas
Alberto
Lambert
Borini
Mario if we're not going to play 2 up front
I'd even consider offers Sterling or Lallana. We're not going to be able to fit all 3 of Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana in the same team. Lallana in hindsight was a luxury signing. He needs to play regularly and I don't think he will here. The attacking midfielder has to be built around Coutinho.
Sterling, if he doesn't want to be here, and we can get anything around 40 million for, I'd sell.
Tomorrow will be the last time that we see the team that BR built under the current approach play against the best. I expect a new approach being implemented over the summer and we move on from the failures of the past 3 seasons.
RedTrident said:
BR doesn't even know what positions need strengthening imo.
It's been said for some time now, we need to agree on a formation and fit the players to that. It has to be a
433 that can morph into a 4312.
We just don't have enough of
the players for either formation. We need 3 strong central midfielders in both styles. We currently have Lucas, Allen and a new Cann. We need 2 strong fullbacks. We don't have a single one that is capable of defending. When playing a 433 we need two strikers in the 3 who are dynamic. We have a rarely fit Sturridge. When playing 4312 for the hole player we have the options of Coutinho, Lallana and even Sterling.
We've been buying players without thinking how they'd fit in with the way we want to play, hence Mario and Lambert on the bench, hence Laser and even Lovren who needs 2 defensive midfielder in front of him to perform.
We need
1 keeper
1 centre back or recall Illori/Wisdom
2 full backs
2 centre midfielders
2 strikers
Clearly not all in the same window but over the next 3 windows, if we are to build a team that competes, we need to have a plan. Makes me wander what on earth has been going on so far. I'd sell/get rid of
Jones
Enrique
Johnson
Lovren
Coates
Toure
Allen
Laser
Aspas
Alberto
Lambert
Borini
Mario if we're not going to play 2 up front
I'd even consider offers Sterling or Lallana. We're not going to be able to fit all 3 of Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana in the same team. Lallana in hindsight was a luxury signing. He needs to play regularly and I don't think he will here. The attacking midfielder has to be built around Coutinho.
Sterling, if he doesn't want to be here, and we can get anything around 40 million for, I'd sell.
Tomorrow will be the last time that we see the team that BR built under the current approach play against the best. I expect a new approach being implemented over the summer and we move on from the failures of the past 3 seasons.
It's like you posted an interview with yourself It's been said for some time now, we need to agree on a formation and fit the players to that. It has to be a
433 that can morph into a 4312.
We just don't have enough of
the players for either formation. We need 3 strong central midfielders in both styles. We currently have Lucas, Allen and a new Cann. We need 2 strong fullbacks. We don't have a single one that is capable of defending. When playing a 433 we need two strikers in the 3 who are dynamic. We have a rarely fit Sturridge. When playing 4312 for the hole player we have the options of Coutinho, Lallana and even Sterling.
We've been buying players without thinking how they'd fit in with the way we want to play, hence Mario and Lambert on the bench, hence Laser and even Lovren who needs 2 defensive midfielder in front of him to perform.
We need
1 keeper
1 centre back or recall Illori/Wisdom
2 full backs
2 centre midfielders
2 strikers
Clearly not all in the same window but over the next 3 windows, if we are to build a team that competes, we need to have a plan. Makes me wander what on earth has been going on so far. I'd sell/get rid of
Jones
Enrique
Johnson
Lovren
Coates
Toure
Allen
Laser
Aspas
Alberto
Lambert
Borini
Mario if we're not going to play 2 up front
I'd even consider offers Sterling or Lallana. We're not going to be able to fit all 3 of Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana in the same team. Lallana in hindsight was a luxury signing. He needs to play regularly and I don't think he will here. The attacking midfielder has to be built around Coutinho.
Sterling, if he doesn't want to be here, and we can get anything around 40 million for, I'd sell.
Tomorrow will be the last time that we see the team that BR built under the current approach play against the best. I expect a new approach being implemented over the summer and we move on from the failures of the past 3 seasons.
RedTrident said:
BR doesn't even know what positions need strengthening imo.
It's been said for some time now, we need to agree on a formation and fit the players to that. It has to be a
433 that can morph into a 4312.
No, it doesn't need to be that at all.It's been said for some time now, we need to agree on a formation and fit the players to that. It has to be a
433 that can morph into a 4312.
If there is any reason for changing the formations this season it's to do with injuries and not having mobile strikers, meaning we cannot play the same way Rodgers wants/ that we did last season.
RedTrident said:
We just don't have enough of
the players for either formation. We need 3 strong central midfielders in both styles. We currently have Lucas, Allen and a new Cann. We need 2 strong fullbacks. We don't have a single one that is capable of defending. When playing a 433 we need two strikers in the 3 who are dynamic. We have a rarely fit Sturridge. When playing 4312 for the hole player we have the options of Coutinho, Lallana and even Sterling.
We've been buying players without thinking how they'd fit in with the way we want to play, hence Mario and Lambert on the bench, hence Laser and even Lovren who needs 2 defensive midfielder in front of him to perform.
We need
1 keeper
1 centre back or recall Illori/Wisdom
2 full backs
2 centre midfielders
2 strikers
I'd even consider offers Sterling or Lallana. We're not going to be able to fit all 3 of Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana in the same team. Lallana in hindsight was a luxury signing. He needs to play regularly and I don't think he will here. The attacking midfielder has to be built around Coutinho.
You're complaining we don't have cover for a keeper or some other positions, yet complaining about Lallana being a luxury. Surely that is called cover, even if he could play elsewhere under different formations. I also don't agree Lallana would only be competing for the same positions as Sterling, if he is in his normal position.the players for either formation. We need 3 strong central midfielders in both styles. We currently have Lucas, Allen and a new Cann. We need 2 strong fullbacks. We don't have a single one that is capable of defending. When playing a 433 we need two strikers in the 3 who are dynamic. We have a rarely fit Sturridge. When playing 4312 for the hole player we have the options of Coutinho, Lallana and even Sterling.
We've been buying players without thinking how they'd fit in with the way we want to play, hence Mario and Lambert on the bench, hence Laser and even Lovren who needs 2 defensive midfielder in front of him to perform.
We need
1 keeper
1 centre back or recall Illori/Wisdom
2 full backs
2 centre midfielders
2 strikers
I'd even consider offers Sterling or Lallana. We're not going to be able to fit all 3 of Coutinho, Sterling and Lallana in the same team. Lallana in hindsight was a luxury signing. He needs to play regularly and I don't think he will here. The attacking midfielder has to be built around Coutinho.
Buying players who don't fit in...
No one said Lovren needed cover in midfield before we signed it, so that is hindsight talking again.
Lambert was a cheap option to deliberately avoid the way we normally play for those hard to break down teams.
Balo was a last minute gamble as it didn't seem Rodgers would be allowed/ have the option of signing anyone else who might be good.
Make all the excuses you want. The point i made was valid. A team like ours shouldn't be spending over 20 million on cover and have 3 strikers that cost over 30 million between them and have us start with a winger as a striker ahead of any one of these. As for Lovren, you agree then that he needs defensive cover in front of him to even come close to not being a liability. This shouldn't be about hindsight, the club should be considering whether a record signing defender can play to the style the manager will be. I call it common sense.
The manager, whoever he is, needs to either make the formation fit the players or the players fit the formation. We do neither.
I'm certain you'll see a change in strategy this summer. The last summer was a car crash. FSG won't be repeating what took place this time round. They're successful businessmen.
The manager, whoever he is, needs to either make the formation fit the players or the players fit the formation. We do neither.
I'm certain you'll see a change in strategy this summer. The last summer was a car crash. FSG won't be repeating what took place this time round. They're successful businessmen.
RedTrident said:
Make all the excuses you want. The point i made was valid. A team like ours shouldn't be spending over 20 million on cover and have 3 strikers that cost over 30 million between them and have us start with a winger as a striker ahead of any one of these. As for Lovren, you agree then that he needs defensive cover in front of him to even come close to not being a liability. This shouldn't be about hindsight, the club should be considering whether a record signing defender can play to the style the manager will be. I call it common sense.
The manager, whoever he is, needs to either make the formation fit the players or the players fit the formation. We do neither.
I'm certain you'll see a change in strategy this summer. The last summer was a car crash. FSG won't be repeating what took place this time round. They're successful businessmen.
I don't think Lallana was bought as cover, he's not meant to replace/ cover Sterling, and I don't think for PC either. It's just you're complaining about a lack of cover, and yet complaining about someone who you regard plays in the same place. The manager, whoever he is, needs to either make the formation fit the players or the players fit the formation. We do neither.
I'm certain you'll see a change in strategy this summer. The last summer was a car crash. FSG won't be repeating what took place this time round. They're successful businessmen.
I think a lot of people recognise Lovren needs that now WITH HINDSIGHT. Carragher and Nevill said he was very good. However since you're so good evaluating players and tactics can you point us to the posts saying where Lovren was a liability without a defensive cover in front of him when we bought him? You actually said he and Lallana were starting 11 players at the time when we signed them. And that we needed to pay more money and get him and Moreno and that would be the back 4 sorted out. And that you were confident Laser would perform. Oops!
You actually have seen Rodgers changing the formation to fit the players. It moved us up around 7 places, getting a clean sheet record on the way. It's not the ideal formation, which is also part of the reason we've done badly now that teams have worked it out, but it got us a lot of results for a while.
I'm not the manager. Nor a member of the transfer committee. The club spent over 20 million on Lovren, 20 million on Laser, 16 million on Mario and over 20 million on Lallana. This isn't bout my hindsight. It is about the manager having a plan on how he will use these players and the manager/transfer committee having identified strengths/weaknesses of the players and their ability to play to the system we want to play.
The finding a system that got us results shouldn't be a system that has all of these players either out of the match day squad and/or playing bit part roles.
I'm certain that we won't be repeating these same mistakes this summer. You're not even accepting they were mistakes..
The finding a system that got us results shouldn't be a system that has all of these players either out of the match day squad and/or playing bit part roles.
I'm certain that we won't be repeating these same mistakes this summer. You're not even accepting they were mistakes..
RedTrident said:
I'd sell/get rid of
Jones
Enrique
Johnson
Lovren
Coates
Toure
Allen
Laser
Aspas
Alberto
Lambert
Borini
Mario
I don't normally agree with a lot of your views (but remain an observer to this thread rather than as an active participant), but I agree with all of the above, with the exception of Laser. I think perhaps give him a second season (as a lot of over seas players can take a season to adapt). Jones
Enrique
Johnson
Lovren
Coates
Toure
Allen
Laser
Aspas
Alberto
Lambert
Borini
Mario
The problem is, getting rid of that number of players would leave us paper thin again. I know, I know - having no one might be better than having Joe Allen. Who would you realistically like to see in for the positions you mentioned (and that I have deleted out of my post accidentally)? For the keepers, Bergovic has been touted as coming to us from Stoke - is he adequate standard? Mignolet was, or so we thought, before he left Sunderland. I don't think Jose will sell Cech to another Premier League club.
Mario has to go - I feel he is a bit of a disruptive influence (plus he's s
t). If we can get 10 mil for him from Sampdoria, the club should snap their hand off and get shot. Hopefully we can get something off Chelsea - a lot of the other results have gone our way today!
Edited by mustdash on Saturday 9th May 16:55
Mario was a massive mistake, he was never going to fit into the style of football we had been playing or were intending to play.
However BR didn't want him so that ones down to the TC/FSG.
Lallana and Lovren everyone thought would be a big boost to the team, Lovren just hasn't lived up to the expectation at all, Lallana I will admit has IMHO been left out too much to have had a chance to settle.
Moreno I feel will be a great asset.
Enrique I just don't know what to say some games he's great some he is invisible.
Manquillo is he still alive ?
However BR didn't want him so that ones down to the TC/FSG.
Lallana and Lovren everyone thought would be a big boost to the team, Lovren just hasn't lived up to the expectation at all, Lallana I will admit has IMHO been left out too much to have had a chance to settle.
Moreno I feel will be a great asset.
Enrique I just don't know what to say some games he's great some he is invisible.
Manquillo is he still alive ?
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Mario was a massive mistake, he was never going to fit into the style of football we had been playing or were intending to play.
However BR didn't want him so that ones down to the TC/FSG.
Lallana and Lovren everyone thought would be a big boost to the team, Lovren just hasn't lived up to the expectation at all, Lallana I will admit has IMHO been left out too much to have had a chance to settle.
A few questions if you don't mind. However BR didn't want him so that ones down to the TC/FSG.
Lallana and Lovren everyone thought would be a big boost to the team, Lovren just hasn't lived up to the expectation at all, Lallana I will admit has IMHO been left out too much to have had a chance to settle.
Do you think the transfer committee (fsg) forced BR to take Mario? Could BR have refused?
Would you give Lovren another season?
Lallana, clearly a hole player to get the most out of him. Surely only cover for Coutinho? Even if he was fit all season, exactly where would he play do you think?
RedTrident said:
I'm not the manager. Nor a member of the transfer committee. The club spent over 20 million on Lovren, 20 million on Laser, 16 million on Mario and over 20 million on Lallana. This isn't bout my hindsight. It is about the manager having a plan on how he will use these players and the manager/transfer committee having identified strengths/weaknesses of the players and their ability to play to the system we want to play.
The finding a system that got us results shouldn't be a system that has all of these players either out of the match day squad and/or playing bit part roles.
I'm certain that we won't be repeating these same mistakes this summer. You're not even accepting they were mistakes..
I think the plan was quite simple in regards to those players. Lovren, safe bet in defense (although that has not worked). It seems due to the attacking nature of our football we need someone who is good on their own when we get hit on the break. Laser has failed to do well this season, hence him not playing regularly. Mario was a gamble I'm sure because he wasn't allowed/ had no other options to sign as a striker. We all knew it would probably not work, but better a gamble than nothing surely? Lallana has had a few injuries and has not been in the team so much. I think he could do well if he gets a bit of time to play.The finding a system that got us results shouldn't be a system that has all of these players either out of the match day squad and/or playing bit part roles.
I'm certain that we won't be repeating these same mistakes this summer. You're not even accepting they were mistakes..
If those players were signed thinking they would do well and be first team players/ improve the cover in the area but the players turn out to have failed then it's better to not use them. I do agree we are playing too many players out of position, but a mix of injuries and people playing badly have meant this season has never really got started in the way planned when buying the players I suspect. Obviously there has been mistakes made, but many of them are only apparent with hindsight when we see players have not done well. As I've said a few times before I think with two good strikers this season (or next season now) would have turned out different with us in the CL spots. Add +25 goals to our tally through good strikers and it's a very different end of season we'd have been looking at.
RedTrident said:
A few questions if you don't mind.
Do you think the transfer committee (fsg) forced BR to take Mario? Could BR have refused?
Yes I do, BR clearly stated Mario would not be coming to Liverpool.Do you think the transfer committee (fsg) forced BR to take Mario? Could BR have refused?
RedTrident said:
Would you give Lovren another season?
I would keep him, But I would use him as cover for a new CB.RedTrident said:
Lallana, clearly a hole player to get the most out of him. Surely only cover for Coutinho? Even if he was fit all season, exactly where would he play do you think?
I think he could rotated with both Sterling and Coutinho, He knows where the net is ( at least he did for Southampton )Could BR not have tried using him as a make shift forward ?
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