The Official Arsenal Thread (Volume2)
Discussion
Jetl3on said:
Is it just this season? I dont mean results or trophies, but is it unfair to suggest that whilst MCFC and to a lesser degree THFC have stepped up the past 3 seasons, AFC have not? Have Arsenal lost that Aura they once had? The fear factor?
It is interesting to compare. I think that Arsenal have been on a a much higher level, that a drop in form still finds them fourth in the league, but seems like they have dropped massively (not being biased, but just looking at the facts). Last year Arsenal had the best Away record, and were in several competitions and top of the league at the turn of Christmas.This year Arsenal lost some key players in the summer who haven't been replaced: Cesc, Nasri, Clichy and that shows massively - so the difference as always has been a few good players to be a great side - last years it was probably a defender, goalie and striker away - this year it is now 5-6 players away... Tottenham and Man City have continued to grow their teams in a way Arsenal haven't, and that is now showing - but then looking at Chelsea, you could argue they have done that and still find themselves 5th!
The annoying thing is that there have been players moved around in the transfer windows for low prices - Parker £5m, Cahill £7m, Bellamy free (though he was up at £4m), and these sit inside Wenger's plans but he refuses to buy - why I don't know.
But to say he is a disaster for the club and should be gone is short sighted - he has been great for the club - just with his previous success he has made it hard for himself now when we don't win things.
RacingPete said:
It is interesting to compare. I think that Arsenal have been on a a much higher level, that a drop in form still finds them fourth in the league, but seems like they have dropped massively (not being biased, but just looking at the facts). Last year Arsenal had the best Away record, and were in several competitions and top of the league at the turn of Christmas.
This year Arsenal lost some key players in the summer who haven't been replaced: Cesc, Nasri, Clichy and that shows massively - so the difference as always has been a few good players to be a great side - last years it was probably a defender, goalie and striker away - this year it is now 5-6 players away... Tottenham and Man City have continued to grow their teams in a way Arsenal haven't, and that is now showing - but then looking at Chelsea, you could argue they have done that and still find themselves 5th!
The annoying thing is that there have been players moved around in the transfer windows for low prices - Parker £5m, Cahill £7m, Bellamy free (though he was up at £4m), and these sit inside Wenger's plans but he refuses to buy - why I don't know.
But to say he is a disaster for the club and should be gone is short sighted - he has been great for the club - just with his previous success he has made it hard for himself now when we don't win things.
Wenger is an enigma, he has done so much for the game in general, but can be a tad stubborn and seems stuck in a rut. He is right about mental strength, but when I look at Gibbs, Arteta, Sagna, Djourou, Walcott, I see talent, but not that defiant leadership needed at times.This year Arsenal lost some key players in the summer who haven't been replaced: Cesc, Nasri, Clichy and that shows massively - so the difference as always has been a few good players to be a great side - last years it was probably a defender, goalie and striker away - this year it is now 5-6 players away... Tottenham and Man City have continued to grow their teams in a way Arsenal haven't, and that is now showing - but then looking at Chelsea, you could argue they have done that and still find themselves 5th!
The annoying thing is that there have been players moved around in the transfer windows for low prices - Parker £5m, Cahill £7m, Bellamy free (though he was up at £4m), and these sit inside Wenger's plans but he refuses to buy - why I don't know.
But to say he is a disaster for the club and should be gone is short sighted - he has been great for the club - just with his previous success he has made it hard for himself now when we don't win things.
RacingPete said:
This year Arsenal lost some key players in the summer who haven't been replaced: Cesc, Nasri, Clichy and that shows massively - so the difference as always has been a few good players to be a great side - last years it was probably a defender, goalie and striker away - this year it is now 5-6 players away... Tottenham and Man City have continued to grow their teams in a way Arsenal haven't, and that is now showing - but then looking at Chelsea, you could argue they have done that and still find themselves 5th!
I share your frustrations but it is worth pointing out the Wilshere is a ready made replacement for Cesc, over the next couple of seasons I think the OX will be a better player than Nasri has ever been in his dreams but the left back replacement does need to be looked at. Need somebody with experience and willing to stay back if we are to see more of the ox according to the team last night. Klitschko should perhaps stay out there for now but that will leave us exposed in the middle. I think Song is a better centre defender than Wenger gives him credit for but that does mean the middle of the park misses out. Booey said:
RacingPete said:
This year Arsenal lost some key players in the summer who haven't been replaced: Cesc, Nasri, Clichy and that shows massively - so the difference as always has been a few good players to be a great side - last years it was probably a defender, goalie and striker away - this year it is now 5-6 players away... Tottenham and Man City have continued to grow their teams in a way Arsenal haven't, and that is now showing - but then looking at Chelsea, you could argue they have done that and still find themselves 5th!
I share your frustrations but it is worth pointing out the Wilshere is a ready made replacement for Cesc, over the next couple of seasons I think the OX will be a better player than Nasri has ever been in his dreams but the left back replacement does need to be looked at. Need somebody with experience and willing to stay back if we are to see more of the ox according to the team last night. Klitschko should perhaps stay out there for now but that will leave us exposed in the middle. I think Song is a better centre defender than Wenger gives him credit for but that does mean the middle of the park misses out. RacingPete said:
Jetl3on said:
Is it just this season? I dont mean results or trophies, but is it unfair to suggest that whilst MCFC and to a lesser degree THFC have stepped up the past 3 seasons, AFC have not? Have Arsenal lost that Aura they once had? The fear factor?
It is interesting to compare. I think that Arsenal have been on a a much higher level, that a drop in form still finds them fourth in the league, but seems like they have dropped massively (not being biased, but just looking at the facts). Last year Arsenal had the best Away record, and were in several competitions and top of the league at the turn of Christmas.This year Arsenal lost some key players in the summer who haven't been replaced: Cesc, Nasri, Clichy and that shows massively - so the difference as always has been a few good players to be a great side - last years it was probably a defender, goalie and striker away - this year it is now 5-6 players away... Tottenham and Man City have continued to grow their teams in a way Arsenal haven't, and that is now showing - but then looking at Chelsea, you could argue they have done that and still find themselves 5th!
The annoying thing is that there have been players moved around in the transfer windows for low prices - Parker £5m, Cahill £7m, Bellamy free (though he was up at £4m), and these sit inside Wenger's plans but he refuses to buy - why I don't know.
But to say he is a disaster for the club and should be gone is short sighted - he has been great for the club - just with his previous success he has made it hard for himself now when we don't win things.
A few years ago I thought the sun shone out of Wengers arse, my emotions of the seasons have changed from admiration,to frustration, to anger and now total hatred, I can't stand him!
He has no tactical awareness at all. If plan A doesn't work he simply doesn't know what to do and generally resorts to chucking on a striker in the hope this may bring about a result. We have been dire at defending and set plays for years, repeatedly making the same the same mistakes without obvious signs of improvement. I would like someone to explain to me what Pat Rice and the rest of the coaching staff contribute, because I can't see what they do?
Those suggesting he hasn't had any money, it may be the case that he has had limited funds. However, he wasted £17 on Reyes and a similar amount on Arshavin and about £12 on Wiltord to name but a few.
The actions of the board are shrouded in mystery , there is no clear business plan or future direction for the club. Arsenal are mismanaged at almost every level from football to business affairs.
The management need to go and the board with them. I honestly can't see this club winning anything at all for a long time to come. I certainly don't think Wenger will ever win anything again at Arsenal.
Alfahorn said:
We can go back as far as the sale of Vieira as an example of players who have not been replaced.
A few years ago I thought the sun shone out of Wengers arse, my emotions of the seasons have changed from admiration,to frustration, to anger and now total hatred, I can't stand him!
He has no tactical awareness at all. If plan A doesn't work he simply doesn't know what to do and generally resorts to chucking on a striker in the hope this may bring about a result. We have been dire at defending and set plays for years, repeatedly making the same the same mistakes without obvious signs of improvement. I would like someone to explain to me what Pat Rice and the rest of the coaching staff contribute, because I can't see what they do?
Those suggesting he hasn't had any money, it may be the case that he has had limited funds. However, he wasted £17 on Reyes and a similar amount on Arshavin and about £12 on Wiltord to name but a few.
The actions of the board are shrouded in mystery , there is no clear business plan or future direction for the club. Arsenal are mismanaged at almost every level from football to business affairs.
The management need to go and the board with them. I honestly can't see this club winning anything at all for a long time to come. I certainly don't think Wenger will ever win anything again at Arsenal.
For this reason, I would like him to step upstairs into a development role, if possible. Getting a tactician in to do the day to day first team coaching. A few years ago I thought the sun shone out of Wengers arse, my emotions of the seasons have changed from admiration,to frustration, to anger and now total hatred, I can't stand him!
He has no tactical awareness at all. If plan A doesn't work he simply doesn't know what to do and generally resorts to chucking on a striker in the hope this may bring about a result. We have been dire at defending and set plays for years, repeatedly making the same the same mistakes without obvious signs of improvement. I would like someone to explain to me what Pat Rice and the rest of the coaching staff contribute, because I can't see what they do?
Those suggesting he hasn't had any money, it may be the case that he has had limited funds. However, he wasted £17 on Reyes and a similar amount on Arshavin and about £12 on Wiltord to name but a few.
The actions of the board are shrouded in mystery , there is no clear business plan or future direction for the club. Arsenal are mismanaged at almost every level from football to business affairs.
The management need to go and the board with them. I honestly can't see this club winning anything at all for a long time to come. I certainly don't think Wenger will ever win anything again at Arsenal.
I am also at a loss to see what kind of money the club have available. As I said, I heard/read somewhere there is 90million, but if its true is anybodies guess.
mylesmcd said:
For this reason, I would like him to step upstairs into a development role, if possible. Getting a tactician in to do the day to day first team coaching.
This may have come up before, but Wenger move upstairs and get who? Wenger is more than just a coach, he is credited with everything, from the stadium, staff, regime, training, players, successes and failures, talent spotting, absolutely everything. The million dollar question, who is available in world football that understands the PL, has the knowledge and huge experience to continue the leagcy Wenger has put in place, oversee all of the above, manage on a shoestring budget and challenge for honours, whilst maintaining the values and traditions of the club?
Jetl3on said:
The million dollar question, who is available in world football that understands the PL, has the knowledge and huge experience to continue the leagcy Wenger has put in place, oversee all of the above, manage on a shoestring budget and challenge for honours, whilst maintaining the values and traditions of the club?
nobody.If the shoestring doesn't change then Arsenal are f
ked !Agreed;
On both of the above. If Arsenal continue with the shoestring budget, then the fans will grow tired of throwing money at the Directors dividend. The tail won't wag the dog for too long on this one.
If Arsene could lay off the first team and continue with the overall running of the club, that would be ideal, but your right, Pep or Mourinho wouldn't stand for it.
On bring new talent into the club, we have a major problem with below par players. i.e. Diaby, Denlsion,Djouru Rosicky, Arshavin etc etc, who are on comparatively high wages (for their skill level) so bringing a player, say Eden Hazard (who Wenger clearly wants!) to the club will upset the entire wage structure, meaning the mentioned players will go up in pay too. This means the actual price of bring talent like this in is huge and also means that we can off load a Diaby who demands 80-90k per week!
On both of the above. If Arsenal continue with the shoestring budget, then the fans will grow tired of throwing money at the Directors dividend. The tail won't wag the dog for too long on this one.
If Arsene could lay off the first team and continue with the overall running of the club, that would be ideal, but your right, Pep or Mourinho wouldn't stand for it.
On bring new talent into the club, we have a major problem with below par players. i.e. Diaby, Denlsion,Djouru Rosicky, Arshavin etc etc, who are on comparatively high wages (for their skill level) so bringing a player, say Eden Hazard (who Wenger clearly wants!) to the club will upset the entire wage structure, meaning the mentioned players will go up in pay too. This means the actual price of bring talent like this in is huge and also means that we can off load a Diaby who demands 80-90k per week!
CIE560 said:
Why is your team going through a rough patch (even if it's a big patch) reason to cancel your season ticket? Surely it's when the team need the crowd most...
That sentiment applies only when the players give a $hit about the club/fans - which doesn't seem to be the case at Arsenal at all !Allyc85 said:
Out of curiosity how many Arsenal memebers on here are considering not to re-new their membership/season ticket?
Im only a red member and rarely even get a chance to go to games so dont think il be bothering!
I think I will have a decision to make about a season ticket at the start of next season. Getting towards the top of the list and not sure if I want to wait another 6 years. A lot of games seem to be going on general sale now... Worth keeping your red though because you are on the list for silver which pretty much guarentees any game you want to attend. Cancelling for a year will put you down to the bottom and I think it is something like 10 years to wait for silverIm only a red member and rarely even get a chance to go to games so dont think il be bothering!
Allyc85 said:
Out of curiosity how many Arsenal memebers on here are considering not to re-new their membership/season ticket?
Im only a red member and rarely even get a chance to go to games so dont think il be bothering!
I'm a silver member and was offered the chance of a season ticket this season. I turned it down and kept my silver membership - thank gawd! Im only a red member and rarely even get a chance to go to games so dont think il be bothering!
Never not been able to get a ticket for a home game yet so it'll do.
Jasey@ said:
CIE560 said:
Why is your team going through a rough patch (even if it's a big patch) reason to cancel your season ticket? Surely it's when the team need the crowd most...
That sentiment applies only when the players give a $hit about the club/fans - which doesn't seem to be the case at Arsenal at all !im said:
Jasey@ said:
CIE560 said:
Why is your team going through a rough patch (even if it's a big patch) reason to cancel your season ticket? Surely it's when the team need the crowd most...
That sentiment applies only when the players give a $hit about the club/fans - which doesn't seem to be the case at Arsenal at all !A couple of times we have won games that last season with Cesc and Nasri we may not have won. 5-3 at Chelsea being a good example. We seem to have some more grit, but of course that isn't always showing!
I think a few of our players aren't good enough, but they try. Stagnant tactics let all of them down, regardless of skill.
im said:
Jasey@ said:
CIE560 said:
Why is your team going through a rough patch (even if it's a big patch) reason to cancel your season ticket? Surely it's when the team need the crowd most...
That sentiment applies only when the players give a $hit about the club/fans - which doesn't seem to be the case at Arsenal at all !Headless spineless chickens !
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