The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 11)
Discussion
That would be good if true, but for $1.6bn (or whatever)? That seems too good to be true. I'd seen he was taking 25% of all shares, so those with 10x Voting and 1x Voting, which, due to the relative amounts of each in circulation put him at 25% voting power and leaves the Glazers on 72% voting control assuming my math's aren't skewed by a slightly liquidy lunch.
Anyway, its positive steps.
Everton getting whacked 10 points for 1 charge too, what a day. The 115 charges for City, if they ever are mentioned again, would sting a bit at that rate.
edit - share voting control was way off based on what I had read, so corrected it.
Anyway, its positive steps.
Everton getting whacked 10 points for 1 charge too, what a day. The 115 charges for City, if they ever are mentioned again, would sting a bit at that rate.
edit - share voting control was way off based on what I had read, so corrected it.
Edited by bstb3 on Friday 17th November 14:24
Gone a bit AMG said:
bstb3 said:
Everton getting whacked 10 points for 1 charge too, what a day. The 115 charges for City, if they ever are mentioned again, would sting a bit at that rate.
Just what we need a fired up Everton next up. Must admit to feeling a little sorry for Everton. As previous posters have said, they will be really fired up for when they play us in the next match. On the plus side, if the FA have hammered Everton so much for one infringement, what punishment will City get for, allegedly, over a hundred? Northern Premier league anyone!!! 
bstb3 said:
That would be good if true, but for $1.6bn (or whatever)? That seems too good to be true. I'd seen he was taking 25% of all shares, so those with 10x Voting and 1x Voting, which, due to the relative amounts of each in circulation put him at 25% voting power and leaves the Glazers on 72% voting control assuming my math's aren't skewed by a slightly liquidy lunch.
Anyway, its positive steps.
Everton getting whacked 10 points for 1 charge too, what a day. The 115 charges for City, if they ever are mentioned again, would sting a bit at that rate.
edit - share voting control was way off based on what I had read, so corrected it.
This just about sums up the state of play re class A and class B shares and who has overall control.............Anyway, its positive steps.
Everton getting whacked 10 points for 1 charge too, what a day. The 115 charges for City, if they ever are mentioned again, would sting a bit at that rate.
edit - share voting control was way off based on what I had read, so corrected it.
Edited by bstb3 on Friday 17th November 14:24
https://theathletic.com/4463364/2023/04/28/manches...
Not covered in that link but I'm fairly sure that the companies 'articles of association' will state that class B shares cannot be sold to non family members without agreement of 51% of members.
Mr.Chips said:
Must admit to feeling a little sorry for Everton. As previous posters have said, they will be really fired up for when they play us in the next match. On the plus side, if the FA have hammered Everton so much for one infringement, what punishment will City get for, allegedly, over a hundred? Northern Premier league anyone!!!
I’d love to see City get a proper punishment obviously but it’s unlikely imo. Them being kicked out and/or stripped of titles would be perfect but never going to happen, let’s face it. I have zero faith it’ll be anything but a big fine. Cie said:
Mr.Chips said:
Must admit to feeling a little sorry for Everton. As previous posters have said, they will be really fired up for when they play us in the next match. On the plus side, if the FA have hammered Everton so much for one infringement, what punishment will City get for, allegedly, over a hundred? Northern Premier league anyone!!!
I’d love to see City get a proper punishment obviously but it’s unlikely imo. Them being kicked out and/or stripped of titles would be perfect but never going to happen, let’s face it. I have zero faith it’ll be anything but a big fine. What might well happen is it gets lawyered to death.
Some of the charges are really minor as well - like the grass being too long (?) Which if true is laughable and shows the PL to be even bigger clowns than I first suspected.
But the PL have issued the charges. They need to stand behind them and judge City as they have judged Everton. Can't quite understand why this hasn't already happened / is currently in the process of happening (ie date set). "Lawyered to death", perhaps - as above?
Edit. Terry from Football Terrace has just said "it will either be nothing, or they are screwed". Tend to agree with that
Nothing at all will happen to City. It’s been going on forever and it will just fade away. Even if by some miracle the PL grows some balls and ensures it’s followed up it’s highly likely to be a fine that is completely irrelevant to them. There’s no way it will be a points deduction, that would just mean years and years in court and that would probably end up as zero anyway.
It’s clear what City have done, but as soon as the City case is finalised with no consequences of note, then the Newcastle taps will be turned on as they know they can act freely too. When that happens it will be a few decades of them dominating until some yet to be invented industry makes someone a trilliaoniare and they decide to buy a club. Well, that or the PL fades away with people getting bored of one horse races each season.
I think it’s really harsh on Everton given how much others get away with. Didn’t we breach last season? Even if minor, it’s still a breach and should be a points deduction. I think Everton have been let off too though as there are three (possibly 4) teams that are much worse than them and will finish below them even with the points deduction.
Oh and we’re at risk too. Our profits will dry up at some point, as we get ever further away from actually challenging for the big prizes. Our outgoings will continue to be obscene with the player contracts in place.
It’s clear what City have done, but as soon as the City case is finalised with no consequences of note, then the Newcastle taps will be turned on as they know they can act freely too. When that happens it will be a few decades of them dominating until some yet to be invented industry makes someone a trilliaoniare and they decide to buy a club. Well, that or the PL fades away with people getting bored of one horse races each season.
I think it’s really harsh on Everton given how much others get away with. Didn’t we breach last season? Even if minor, it’s still a breach and should be a points deduction. I think Everton have been let off too though as there are three (possibly 4) teams that are much worse than them and will finish below them even with the points deduction.
Oh and we’re at risk too. Our profits will dry up at some point, as we get ever further away from actually challenging for the big prizes. Our outgoings will continue to be obscene with the player contracts in place.
LF5335 said:
Nothing at all will happen to City. It’s been going on forever and it will just fade away. Even if by some miracle the PL grows some balls and ensures it’s followed up it’s highly likely to be a fine that is completely irrelevant to them. There’s no way it will be a points deduction, that would just mean years and years in court and that would probably end up as zero anyway.
It’s clear what City have done, but as soon as the City case is finalised with no consequences of note, then the Newcastle taps will be turned on as they know they can act freely too. When that happens it will be a few decades of them dominating until some yet to be invented industry makes someone a trilliaoniare and they decide to buy a club. Well, that or the PL fades away with people getting bored of one horse races each season.
I think it’s really harsh on Everton given how much others get away with. Didn’t we breach last season? Even if minor, it’s still a breach and should be a points deduction. I think Everton have been let off too though as there are three (possibly 4) teams that are much worse than them and will finish below them even with the points deduction.
Oh and we’re at risk too. Our profits will dry up at some point, as we get ever further away from actually challenging for the big prizes. Our outgoings will continue to be obscene with the player contracts in place.
As I understand it we breached uefa rules but not premier league rules regarding finances (apparently they are different ) It’s clear what City have done, but as soon as the City case is finalised with no consequences of note, then the Newcastle taps will be turned on as they know they can act freely too. When that happens it will be a few decades of them dominating until some yet to be invented industry makes someone a trilliaoniare and they decide to buy a club. Well, that or the PL fades away with people getting bored of one horse races each season.
I think it’s really harsh on Everton given how much others get away with. Didn’t we breach last season? Even if minor, it’s still a breach and should be a points deduction. I think Everton have been let off too though as there are three (possibly 4) teams that are much worse than them and will finish below them even with the points deduction.
Oh and we’re at risk too. Our profits will dry up at some point, as we get ever further away from actually challenging for the big prizes. Our outgoings will continue to be obscene with the player contracts in place.
With regards to "lawyering to death" AIUI there is a 3 man independent panel who rule on any cases brought by the Prem. They determine whether rules have been broken and issue punishments. There is then a 14 day window to appeal, in which case a new 3 man panel is appointed. And they will review the appeal and change any punishment they see fit. Or not as the case may be.
And then that's it. There is no avenue to pursue after the appeal. You can't go to CAS or the High Court. All the Prem clubs signed up to this. You'd ultimately risk expulsion from the league.
And then that's it. There is no avenue to pursue after the appeal. You can't go to CAS or the High Court. All the Prem clubs signed up to this. You'd ultimately risk expulsion from the league.
TEKNOPUG said:
With regards to "lawyering to death" AIUI there is a 3 man independent panel who rule on any cases brought by the Prem. They determine whether rules have been broken and issue punishments. There is then a 14 day window to appeal, in which case a new 3 man panel is appointed. And they will review the appeal and change any punishment they see fit. Or not as the case may be.
And then that's it. There is no avenue to pursue after the appeal. You can't go to CAS or the High Court. All the Prem clubs signed up to this. You'd ultimately risk expulsion from the league.
I’m not sure that would stop them though. They’d just claim unfair contracts / restrictive practice or something and tie everyone up in knots. To get to this stage it shows they don’t care about rules, or integrity, so would probably act accordingly. I’m guessing Everton and their appeal process will be a test case for anything aimed in City’s direction. And then that's it. There is no avenue to pursue after the appeal. You can't go to CAS or the High Court. All the Prem clubs signed up to this. You'd ultimately risk expulsion from the league.
I think we all know that whatever happens the outcome for City will be irrelevant and not really a punishment.
LF5335 said:
I’m guessing Everton and their appeal process will be a test case for anything aimed in City’s direction.
Just on that. I don't think Everton will really push their luck too much with appeals / CAS etc. They've had their points deduction punishment and they're only two points from safety. The sensible play is to just accept it, but have a moan publicly to help generate the whole World is against us atmosphere, and use that to try and keep their recent run of form going which led them to be sitting well above the relegation zone before the points deduction.TEKNOPUG said:
With regards to "lawyering to death" AIUI there is a 3 man independent panel who rule on any cases brought by the Prem. They determine whether rules have been broken and issue punishments. There is then a 14 day window to appeal, in which case a new 3 man panel is appointed. And they will review the appeal and change any punishment they see fit. Or not as the case may be.
And then that's it. There is no avenue to pursue after the appeal. You can't go to CAS or the High Court. All the Prem clubs signed up to this. You'd ultimately risk expulsion from the league.
Well it's been 8 or 9 years and counting so far. Possibly even longer? Ours (Everton) has been wrapped up in triple quick time (sarcasm) - only taking 3 seasons and risking further court cases with Leicester and Burnley, who finished 18th in the last two season. And for some inexplicable reason, Leeds want to sue us too And then that's it. There is no avenue to pursue after the appeal. You can't go to CAS or the High Court. All the Prem clubs signed up to this. You'd ultimately risk expulsion from the league.
Getting into Utd, didn't you guys get fined for a minor FFP breach? I don't know much about that one, or if it's relevant to Everton's situation (?)
FWIW I think we'll appeal and get a reduction in points. Apparently the formula is "6 points per breach and 1 pt per 5m overspend". The inks still wet on this though, having been decided on the 10th August 2023. 3 years after our breach
Anyway, getting back to my point. The PL should get on with charging City and Chelsea. Or STFU
johnboy1975 said:
TEKNOPUG said:
With regards to "lawyering to death" AIUI there is a 3 man independent panel who rule on any cases brought by the Prem. They determine whether rules have been broken and issue punishments. There is then a 14 day window to appeal, in which case a new 3 man panel is appointed. And they will review the appeal and change any punishment they see fit. Or not as the case may be.
And then that's it. There is no avenue to pursue after the appeal. You can't go to CAS or the High Court. All the Prem clubs signed up to this. You'd ultimately risk expulsion from the league.
Well it's been 8 or 9 years and counting so far. Possibly even longer? Ours (Everton) has been wrapped up in triple quick time (sarcasm) - only taking 3 seasons and risking further court cases with Leicester and Burnley, who finished 18th in the last two season. And for some inexplicable reason, Leeds want to sue us too And then that's it. There is no avenue to pursue after the appeal. You can't go to CAS or the High Court. All the Prem clubs signed up to this. You'd ultimately risk expulsion from the league.
Getting into Utd, didn't you guys get fined for a minor FFP breach? I don't know much about that one, or if it's relevant to Everton's situation (?)
FWIW I think we'll appeal and get a reduction in points. Apparently the formula is "6 points per breach and 1 pt per 5m overspend". The inks still wet on this though, having been decided on the 10th August 2023. 3 years after our breach
Anyway, getting back to my point. The PL should get on with charging City and Chelsea. Or STFU
A Glasgow Rangers like demotion could/should be ahead for City if they’re guilty as well. Will it happen? Unlikely.
Gone a bit AMG said:
I’d be feeling Aggreived if I were an Everton fan as it seems to be an unprecedented sanction but someone has to be first and the rules need to be enforced. Whilst frustrating being the first to endure such a punishment the timing for Everton is kind given the state of the league. The severity should have Chelsea and city worried and if United fall foul of these rules as well so be it.
A Glasgow Rangers like demotion could/should be ahead for City if they’re guilty as well. Will it happen? Unlikely.
That's where I am. Aggrieved A Glasgow Rangers like demotion could/should be ahead for City if they’re guilty as well. Will it happen? Unlikely.
(and I get it, if applied in the recent past, it could have took us down. That doesn't make it right...)If City and Chelski are given equivalent punishment, I'll wind my neck in. That's borderline relegation if the rumours are true as to what they've done.
.
As you say,someone has to be first. I must say, I'd rather the rules were "up front" rather than decided in 2023 for a 2020 offence, but we are where we are. So be it.
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