The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 19]
Discussion
jammy-git said:
Of course they can. They are the governing body and it is their competition. Of course they cannot stop Salah playing for Egypt in friendlies, etc. But I'm willing to bet they can exclude him from certain competitions in the same way that those players can be excluded from club competitions.
On what legal grounds can they exclude him, or any other player? He (and every other player) will simply sue FIFA if they try.
And most of the best players in the World play for the 12 clubs... no way is any national FA outside Europe going to stand for not being able to play their best players when they have no skin in the ESL game. They will sue as well.
It is BS. It will never happen.
The English/Italian/Spanish FA may say to the England/Italy/Spain Manger 'you can't pick anyone from the 12 clubs', but that's as far as it could go.
Pommy said:
I'm with you. It's really quite amusing to see the hypocritical organising bodies start proclaiming how altruistic they are, and how they are there for the good of society, when they themselves and significant leaders of their organisations have been taking money out of the games through bribes and dodgy payments.
Also, at the moment, all that has happened is the teams have said 'yeah we'll carry on as normal with the domestic leagues and cups, we just don't want anything to do with the Champions League and Europa League'.
For most fans this won't mean anything less than it is now and may even be better. Maybe.
However, the governing bodies have been absolutely had their power removed and the clubs have unionised and are currently breeding their own cash cow whilst UEFA's is in the corner dying a slow death.
I think when you look beyond all the rhetoric and moralising the clubs involved have simply said 'f
k you' to the Champions League and UEFA.
This actually gives West Ham, Everton, Palace etc a greater chance to play in Europe each season.
Also there are spaces for teams to rotate into it so there is opportunity for teams to join and yes, the no relegation thing goes against everything we know, however my sympathy for the organisations that have for years creamed this sport is zero
There's a lot of truth in that... FIFA & UEFA are hardly the saviours of football and deserve to get fAlso, at the moment, all that has happened is the teams have said 'yeah we'll carry on as normal with the domestic leagues and cups, we just don't want anything to do with the Champions League and Europa League'.
For most fans this won't mean anything less than it is now and may even be better. Maybe.
However, the governing bodies have been absolutely had their power removed and the clubs have unionised and are currently breeding their own cash cow whilst UEFA's is in the corner dying a slow death.
I think when you look beyond all the rhetoric and moralising the clubs involved have simply said 'f
k you' to the Champions League and UEFA.This actually gives West Ham, Everton, Palace etc a greater chance to play in Europe each season.
Also there are spaces for teams to rotate into it so there is opportunity for teams to join and yes, the no relegation thing goes against everything we know, however my sympathy for the organisations that have for years creamed this sport is zero
ked over. Zero sympathy for them.But creating a closed shop goes beyond arrogance. It creates further massive inequality in what's an already far from level playing field. It's just wrong.
The FA is in a very difficult position. They have to stand with UEFA and FIFA in order to try and stop the ESL. But you're right in that they are going to want their best players representing the country at international tournaments.
But this is from FIFAs rulebook: https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/regulation...
But then this is all going to be resolved by very expensive lawyers, so anything we say is all just naive conjecture.
But this is from FIFAs rulebook: https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/regulation...
FIFA said:
1.
Each association shall ensure the following when selecting its representative
team for the preliminary competition of the FIFA World Cup™:
a) all players shall hold the nationality of its country and be subject to its
jurisdiction;
b) all players shall be eligible for selection in accordance with the FIFA
Statutes, the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes
and other relevant FIFA rules and regulations.
It's the same with F1. If a team were to set up a rival body to the FIA and their own competition, you better believe they'd no longer be able to compete in F1.Each association shall ensure the following when selecting its representative
team for the preliminary competition of the FIFA World Cup™:
a) all players shall hold the nationality of its country and be subject to its
jurisdiction;
b) all players shall be eligible for selection in accordance with the FIFA
Statutes, the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes
and other relevant FIFA rules and regulations.
But then this is all going to be resolved by very expensive lawyers, so anything we say is all just naive conjecture.
jammy-git said:
The FA is in a very difficult position. They have to stand with UEFA and FIFA in order to try and stop the ESL. But you're right in that they are going to want their best players representing the country at international tournaments.
But this is from FIFAs rulebook: https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/regulation...
But then this is all going to be resolved by very expensive lawyers, so anything we say is all just naive conjecture.
If FIFA add a statute to their regulations that says no player who plays in the ESL is eligible to play for their national team they'll get their arses sued. I'm no employment law expert, but I'd be pretty confident that would break numerous restrictive trading laws in both Europe and Switzerland.But this is from FIFAs rulebook: https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/regulation...
FIFA said:
1.
Each association shall ensure the following when selecting its representative
team for the preliminary competition of the FIFA World Cup™:
a) all players shall hold the nationality of its country and be subject to its
jurisdiction;
b) all players shall be eligible for selection in accordance with the FIFA
Statutes, the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes
and other relevant FIFA rules and regulations.
It's the same with F1. If a team were to set up a rival body to the FIA and their own competition, you better believe they'd no longer be able to compete in F1.Each association shall ensure the following when selecting its representative
team for the preliminary competition of the FIFA World Cup™:
a) all players shall hold the nationality of its country and be subject to its
jurisdiction;
b) all players shall be eligible for selection in accordance with the FIFA
Statutes, the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes
and other relevant FIFA rules and regulations.
But then this is all going to be resolved by very expensive lawyers, so anything we say is all just naive conjecture.
The issue isn't how the law applies to the teams, it's how it applies to the players (the drivers in your F1 analogy) and their employment rights. The players aren't contracted to FIFA (or UEFA), so their power over them will be legally limited.
Chris Stott said:
If FIFA add a statute to their regulations that says no player who plays in the ESL is eligible to play for their national team they'll get their arses sued. I'm no employment law expert, but I'd be pretty confident that would break numerous restrictive trading laws in both Europe and Switzerland.
The issue isn't how the law applies to the teams, it's how it applies to the players (the drivers in your F1 analogy) and their employment rights. The players aren't contracted to FIFA (or UEFA), so their power over them will be legally limited.
I assume the players do sign some documents connected to FIFA/UEFA, because they can be fined by them for indiscretions. The issue isn't how the law applies to the teams, it's how it applies to the players (the drivers in your F1 analogy) and their employment rights. The players aren't contracted to FIFA (or UEFA), so their power over them will be legally limited.
Puggit said:
I assume the players do sign some documents connected to FIFA/UEFA, because they can be fined by them for indiscretions.
I doubt the players sign anything for FIFA/UEFA... their contracts are with their clubs. Players can be banned by UEFA from UEFA competitions for things like racial abuse, or failing drug tests.... Do you have any examples of players being directly fined by UEFA and/or FIFA for other offenses?
What's being proposed is far from the above though - any rules they implemented to try and stop players playing for their National team would have to be congruent with European employment laws. Whatever he says to the press, Ceferin will know this already - the laws are pretty clear and it would likely only take an employment lawyer a very short time to confirm what's he's threatening is illegal.
Of course they cannot stop players playing from their national teams, but surely the World Cup belongs to FIFA and FIFA can decide who can and cannot play in it. The same with UEFA with the CL and Euros?
I suspect it might come down to whether the clubs can remain within the PL/FA. I believe there are FIFA rules stating that eligible players must play under the jurisdiction of the national governing body.
I suspect it might come down to whether the clubs can remain within the PL/FA. I believe there are FIFA rules stating that eligible players must play under the jurisdiction of the national governing body.
jammy-git said:
Of course they cannot stop players playing from their national teams, but surely the World Cup belongs to FIFA and FIFA can decide who can and cannot play in it. The same with UEFA with the CL and Euros?
I suspect it might come down to whether the clubs can remain within the PL/FA. I believe there are FIFA rules stating that eligible players must play under the jurisdiction of the national governing body.
Doesn't work like that... there are laws that stop you restricting individuals rights. I suspect it might come down to whether the clubs can remain within the PL/FA. I believe there are FIFA rules stating that eligible players must play under the jurisdiction of the national governing body.
UEFA can of course decide which teams are eligible for their competitions, and also have a set of rules for who's eligible to play for those teams, but those rules cannot be discriminatory or restrict an individuals rights.
The European FA's operate under the same rules - and despite Brexit, UK employment law cannot vary too much from EU law or there's a risk of breaching the trade agreement.
Of course European FA's could choose not to pick the players for the national teams - they are free to do this. But I doubt Brazil are going to decide not to pick Alisson or Bobby just because they play in the ESL.
As for the 6 clubs continuing to play in the EPL - beyond the legal issue of the ESL being nothing to do with the EPL, those 6 clubs must be the ones that bring in 90% of the EPL revenue outside the UK. The EPL can't sell TV rights to SKY or foreign broadcasters for billions without them. It would be commercial suicide for the EPL and the other clubs to throw them out.
The 12 clubs are in an incredibly strong position. It will only be sustained negative press and fan push back that will stop them going through with this... Oh, and UEFA will need to give them a much bigger share of the ECL money pot.
jammy-git said:
FIFA aren't involved in the ESL though?
Well I thought not but I've seen in various places they were. Even the Super League thread in PH starts off by saying FIFA are involved. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...Although the Beeb today reports "After the ESL was announced, Fifa expressed its "disapproval" of the proposed competition and called on "all parties involved in heated discussions to engage in calm, constructive and balanced dialogue for the good of the game".
The ESL has sent a letter to Fifa president Gianni Infantino and Uefa boss Aleksander Ceferin issuing notice of legal proceedings in European courts designed to block any sanctions the two governing bodies may try enforce over the formation of the ESL. "
So maybe the clubs went their own sweet way, away from FIFA. or that was a mistake suggesting they were in on it in the first place...
The ESL has sent a letter to Fifa president Gianni Infantino and Uefa boss Aleksander Ceferin issuing notice of legal proceedings in European courts designed to block any sanctions the two governing bodies may try enforce over the formation of the ESL. "
So maybe the clubs went their own sweet way, away from FIFA. or that was a mistake suggesting they were in on it in the first place...
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff