Will VAR Change Football for the Better?
Discussion
Ukraine denied injury time penalty. They would have gone through if they scored and Italy would have been out.
https://x.com/ViaplaySportsUK/status/1726717306279...
https://x.com/ViaplaySportsUK/status/1726717306279...
LF5335 said:
Choked on what was a simple decision.
It's subjective One mans dived, another man's went down easy, another man's stonewall penalty.
It does look like he was clipped, then exaggerated it in an unrealistic manner which doesn't help his cause (IMO)
Refs sometimes give them, sometimes don't. And whatever they decide, as it's not a "clear and obvious" error, the VAR roll with it / "back their mate"
Which, obviously, is a big problem for consistency. And, perhaps , a big problem with VAR. Or maybe it's working as intended, in that the (high) bar of "clear and obvious" wasn't met (subjective in itself
). Or perhaps it means...if there's contact, it has to be given?? As that is all VAR can determine.Was there a big VAR check for the incident BTW? You'd expect that, as a minimum
Which then goes back to the question posed "what is the point of VAR?" It was supposed to eliminate cheating, all that has happened is the "cheating" has evolved. I do think players are more than playing their part in VARs (apparent) fall from grace.
Clear and obvious was the big takeaway for me last night. Everything seemed to take forever to make a decision. They’ve got overly cautious now after the quick but incorrect decision to rule that Liverpool goal out.
Each penalty seems to take an age. I’m fine with the ref giving a penalty and VAR not overturning it even if it’s the wrong decision in those where it takes forever to try to find a reason to overturn it. Ditto in reverse.
What annoys me is when the decision is borderline and they spend forever on it. To overturn it the initial decision has to be a clear and obvious error. Watching a replay dozens of times from every angle to try to work out if it’s right or not is not clear and obvious.
Each penalty seems to take an age. I’m fine with the ref giving a penalty and VAR not overturning it even if it’s the wrong decision in those where it takes forever to try to find a reason to overturn it. Ditto in reverse.
What annoys me is when the decision is borderline and they spend forever on it. To overturn it the initial decision has to be a clear and obvious error. Watching a replay dozens of times from every angle to try to work out if it’s right or not is not clear and obvious.
This whole clear and obvious judgement needs to go. If the ref has missed something or got it wrong then overturn him. If he's given a foul in the box for a penalty and VAR can see it isn't then overrule him or bring him to the monitor. None of this "Well it's not a clear and obvious mistake" rubbish. I'd also give them 10 seconds to decide if someone is offside and if they can't decide either way then it goes with the attacker.
Tycho said:
This whole clear and obvious judgement needs to go. If the ref has missed something or got it wrong then overturn him. If he's given a foul in the box for a penalty and VAR can see it isn't then overrule him or bring him to the monitor. None of this "Well it's not a clear and obvious mistake" rubbish. I'd also give them 10 seconds to decide if someone is offside and if they can't decide either way then it goes with the attacker.
Exactly. If something is clear and obvious then it can be easily noticed within 5 seconds. You don't need a load of slow motion replays to spot that. Just like last night for example. Everyone could see it wasn't a penalty after the first replay, to which it should have been overturned. LF5335 said:
Clear and obvious was the big takeaway for me last night. Everything seemed to take forever to make a decision. They’ve got overly cautious now after the quick but incorrect decision to rule that Liverpool goal out.
Each penalty seems to take an age. I’m fine with the ref giving a penalty and VAR not overturning it even if it’s the wrong decision in those where it takes forever to try to find a reason to overturn it. Ditto in reverse.
What annoys me is when the decision is borderline and they spend forever on it. To overturn it the initial decision has to be a clear and obvious error. Watching a replay dozens of times from every angle to try to work out if it’s right or not is not clear and obvious.
Who needs spontaneous goal celebrations anyway?Each penalty seems to take an age. I’m fine with the ref giving a penalty and VAR not overturning it even if it’s the wrong decision in those where it takes forever to try to find a reason to overturn it. Ditto in reverse.
What annoys me is when the decision is borderline and they spend forever on it. To overturn it the initial decision has to be a clear and obvious error. Watching a replay dozens of times from every angle to try to work out if it’s right or not is not clear and obvious.
Tycho said:
This whole clear and obvious judgement needs to go. If the ref has missed something or got it wrong then overturn him. If he's given a foul in the box for a penalty and VAR can see it isn't then overrule him or bring him to the monitor. None of this "Well it's not a clear and obvious mistake" rubbish. I'd also give them 10 seconds to decide if someone is offside and if they can't decide either way then it goes with the attacker.
Totally agree. If you can't see it in 10-20 secs then its not clear & obviously wrong & onfield decision stands.For things the ref didn't see then again it needs a 10-20 sec time limit for a review.
Wolves fan here 
It isn't changing football for the better at the moment.
That's the 4th match now where we've been fingered by VAR. Multiple times yesterday too.
How you can spend half an hour reviewing something frame by frame, or in slow-motion, and then still make the wrong decision is beyond belief.
We'd be pushing for Europe if not for VAR making the mistakes they've made with us to this point.
Sadly we can't trade in the apologies we get from PGMOL for points at the end of the season.
It isn't changing football for the better at the moment.
That's the 4th match now where we've been fingered by VAR. Multiple times yesterday too.
How you can spend half an hour reviewing something frame by frame, or in slow-motion, and then still make the wrong decision is beyond belief.
We'd be pushing for Europe if not for VAR making the mistakes they've made with us to this point.
Sadly we can't trade in the apologies we get from PGMOL for points at the end of the season.
I just finished Welcome To Wrexham and they highlighted some of the decisions during the Notts County game in the first half earlier this year. Wrexham effectively had to change their approach as through balls were being flagged offside which were clearly fine. They actually showed footage from the documentary cameras showing them comfortably entire bodies onside at times.
I'm not sure people would stomach going back to that at the top level now
I'm not sure people would stomach going back to that at the top level now
Sycamore said:
Wolves fan here
It isn't changing football for the better at the moment.
That's the 4th match now where we've been fingered by VAR. Multiple times yesterday too.
How you can spend half an hour reviewing something frame by frame, or in slow-motion, and then still make the wrong decision is beyond belief.
We'd be pushing for Europe if not for VAR making the mistakes they've made with us to this point.
Sadly we can't trade in the apologies we get from PGMOL for points at the end of the season.
Here is the analysis.It isn't changing football for the better at the moment.
That's the 4th match now where we've been fingered by VAR. Multiple times yesterday too.
How you can spend half an hour reviewing something frame by frame, or in slow-motion, and then still make the wrong decision is beyond belief.
We'd be pushing for Europe if not for VAR making the mistakes they've made with us to this point.
Sadly we can't trade in the apologies we get from PGMOL for points at the end of the season.
The first pen was a blatant dive. The Fulham player pulled back his right leg in order to go down and there was next to no contact with his left foot. Should have been booked for diving.
The second pen looked more of a pen but I think that the ref didn't see the impact with Wilsons thigh as enough to make it a pen. I think he went down too dramatically, IMO.
ch37 said:
I just finished Welcome To Wrexham and they highlighted some of the decisions during the Notts County game in the first half earlier this year. Wrexham effectively had to change their approach as through balls were being flagged offside which were clearly fine. They actually showed footage from the documentary cameras showing them comfortably entire bodies onside at times.
I'm not sure people would stomach going back to that at the top level now
That's just a demonstration of how VAR was sold to us.I'm not sure people would stomach going back to that at the top level now
Decisions micro analysed by TV in super slow motion to show where the linesman/referee/official was WRONG and now we have this clusterfek.
Last night was a joke. Wolves have every reason to be outraged at the performance of VAR. It's nearly every game now where there are contentious decisions either endorsed or enforced by VAR or alternatively where there are pauses of up to five minutes while all the events leading up to the awarding of a goal elapses.
And to cap it all, their solution is not less use of VAR but MORE!
Words fail me.
I think the first penalty is a dive. The Wolves player gets a nick on the ball before their feet touch. The Fulham player threw himself to the ground.
The second penalty I think is a foul. You can see the contact hitting the rear leg across the back of the standing leg. When you are running this often trips you up.
The second penalty I think is a foul. You can see the contact hitting the rear leg across the back of the standing leg. When you are running this often trips you up.
GT03ROB said:
Tycho said:
This whole clear and obvious judgement needs to go. If the ref has missed something or got it wrong then overturn him. If he's given a foul in the box for a penalty and VAR can see it isn't then overrule him or bring him to the monitor. None of this "Well it's not a clear and obvious mistake" rubbish. I'd also give them 10 seconds to decide if someone is offside and if they can't decide either way then it goes with the attacker.
Totally agree. If you can't see it in 10-20 secs then its not clear & obviously wrong & onfield decision stands.For things the ref didn't see then again it needs a 10-20 sec time limit for a review.
Rushing decisions and getting them wrong as you've not seen all the angles will cause more anger than long waits.
Tycho said:
Here is the analysis.
The first pen was a blatant dive. The Fulham player pulled back his right leg in order to go down and there was next to no contact with his left foot. Should have been booked for diving.
The second pen looked more of a pen but I think that the ref didn't see the impact with Wilsons thigh as enough to make it a pen. I think he went down too dramatically, IMO.
I agree.The first pen was a blatant dive. The Fulham player pulled back his right leg in order to go down and there was next to no contact with his left foot. Should have been booked for diving.
The second pen looked more of a pen but I think that the ref didn't see the impact with Wilsons thigh as enough to make it a pen. I think he went down too dramatically, IMO.
Also a Fulham player did the typical "headbutt" in football terms where you vaguely push your head towards another player and they go down screaming, which is always a red.
Max Kilman for Wolves didn't go down screaming, so nothing was done in respect of it.
Regardless of decision this, decision that, VAR has definitely taken some of the joy out of football.
Driver101 said:
I think the first penalty is a dive. The Wolves player gets a nick on the ball before their feet touch. The Fulham player threw himself to the ground.
The second penalty I think is a foul. You can see the contact hitting the rear leg across the back of the standing leg. When you are running this often trips you up.
Both instances there is contact. If VAR is looking for contact, it will find it with penalty disputes, unless it's a clear air dive over the defender. Which doesn't happen now, instead the attacker makes sure there is some contact and goes down. I think the Utd player runs into Young's leg for the Utd penalty against Everton. Ref doesn't give it. VAR overrule/ send ref to monitor to overrule himself. (Everton bias, and I can see why it was given. Certainly he shouldn't have been booked for diving)The second penalty I think is a foul. You can see the contact hitting the rear leg across the back of the standing leg. When you are running this often trips you up.
The interesting bit here is the "clear and obvious". The Utd one, and the Fulham pen the ref doesn't give is subjective but still VAR overrule. Refs were well placed in both instances I believe?
When they get involved in some subjective decisions and not others, it creates an extra level of confusion. As I've said, even whether it is clear and obvious or not is a subjective decision.
And then some fans will agree with some decisions, and disagree with others. It's a mess all round.
johnboy1975 said:
Both instances there is contact. If VAR is looking for contact, it will find it with penalty disputes, unless it's a clear air dive over the defender. Which doesn't happen now, instead the attacker makes sure there is some contact and goes down. I think the Utd player runs into Young's leg for the Utd penalty against Everton. Ref doesn't give it. VAR overrule/ send ref to monitor to overrule himself. (Everton bias, and I can see why it was given. Certainly he shouldn't have been booked for diving)
The interesting bit here is the "clear and obvious". The Utd one, and the Fulham pen the ref doesn't give is subjective but still VAR overrule. Refs were well placed in both instances I believe?
When they get involved in some subjective decisions and not others, it creates an extra level of confusion. As I've said, even whether it is clear and obvious or not is a subjective decision.
And then some fans will agree with some decisions, and disagree with others. It's a mess all round.
I’ve called this the “Grealish penalty”, he mastered the art of throwing his leg into the defender and going over and it’s given every time. The next phase is people chipping balls into opponents hands rather than trying to score. The interesting bit here is the "clear and obvious". The Utd one, and the Fulham pen the ref doesn't give is subjective but still VAR overrule. Refs were well placed in both instances I believe?
When they get involved in some subjective decisions and not others, it creates an extra level of confusion. As I've said, even whether it is clear and obvious or not is a subjective decision.
And then some fans will agree with some decisions, and disagree with others. It's a mess all round.
Sycamore said:
Wolves fan here
It isn't changing football for the better at the moment.
That's the 4th match now where we've been fingered by VAR. Multiple times yesterday too.
How you can spend half an hour reviewing something frame by frame, or in slow-motion, and then still make the wrong decision is beyond belief.
We'd be pushing for Europe if not for VAR making the mistakes they've made with us to this point.
Sadly we can't trade in the apologies we get from PGMOL for points at the end of the season.
Fulham fan here.It isn't changing football for the better at the moment.
That's the 4th match now where we've been fingered by VAR. Multiple times yesterday too.
How you can spend half an hour reviewing something frame by frame, or in slow-motion, and then still make the wrong decision is beyond belief.
We'd be pushing for Europe if not for VAR making the mistakes they've made with us to this point.
Sadly we can't trade in the apologies we get from PGMOL for points at the end of the season.
You're not the only team on the wrong end of decisions, but I do accept you seem to have had more than your fair share recently. We got a dreadful one against us in our Man City game, just as we were coming back into it and it pretty much killed the game as a contest.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/1295...
^^^ That's the worst one of the season so far in my book, but it's Man City against Wee Fulham, so who cares, right?
Last night's Cairney one, well it looked to me like your man touched the ball, then Cairney controls it momentarily with his right foot, then he's caught on his left foot and goes down. So looked at in that sequence, it's a foul.
The Wilson one, yes Wilson makes too much of it, but he's still been fouled.
Where you've been really diddled is that Vinicius should have been sent off. The man's an idiot.
Edited by CivicDuties on Tuesday 28th November 17:19
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff