The Official Arsenal Thread (Volume2)

[Booey]

flasher said:

car crazy said:

Us and city finished 19 points clear of the rest and I'm afraid that's how its gonna be from now on a 2 horse race just like Scotland

Not so sure. You won fk all and I think you are going to have to get used to it.

United are not the force they once were. At the moment, I would not place them in the top 5 teams in Europe. Madrid, Barcelona, City, Juventus and AC Milan all have superior teams in my opinion. There are only one or two United players who I would put in our starting 11. How they replace Giggs and Scholes is going to make or break the next 5 years for them. If they get a Hazard and a Sneijder then it is game on but if they get anything other than top class they could find it very hard to compete in europe and in the PL. Can they still attract the best players in the world? Do they have the money to purchase them? You have to say City is a more attractive destination after their success this season and with the money they offer.

[dickymint]

Got sent this so thought I'd drop it here.........

[bikerPaul]

I didn’t want to post anything yesterday immediately after the WBA game but today’s Arsenal.com ditty has me shaking my head in disbelief.

Wenger: "I can sleep better at night now. To be in the group stage straight away is fantastic"

What a load of spin on what has been a ridiculously poor season even by the last few years "standards".

Let's summarise......
- Worst start to a league campaign in 50 years
- Worst defeat in 100 years
- Longest spell without a trophy continues
- Knocked out at first CL knockout phase
- Knocked out at 5th round of FA Cup

And don't forget if Spuds hadn't capitulated thanks to Harry losing his focus due to links with the England post we'd never have finished 3rd in a month of Sunday's.

I've said it before and i'll say it again until the Boardroom situation is sorted with the Kroenke/Usmanov situation and Gazidis extracts the digit (and starts by persuading RVP to stay) and some pressure is put on Wenger from above we better get used to embarrassing mediocrity.

Don’t get me wrong we're a long way off a laughing stock as most clubs would love to be in our position but let's face it, the standards that we have set for ourselves are a long way from being met.

Roll on 2012/13? Dream on unless we sign a minimum of 3 quality players (how many years have we been saying that for?) right down the middle of the side.

[Fatman2]

bikerPaul said:

stuff

Sorry but I don't agree at all. We're no way near embarrassing mediocrity.

Sure it's been a tough season but it's also been an astonishing come back. There are always a lot of 'ifs' and 'buts' but Tottenham's poor run was too long to be down to Harry. Ultimately they had a similar season as us except the money they spent. I thought our team showed great character to pick themselves up and end up third. I know there was a lot of banter with the derby but the 5-2 win showed me just how much determination the team had to rectify things (in a similar way to City when they were 8 points behind United).

The problem Arsenal face is crossing the line that has been drawn by teams like Chelsea and now City. Personally I don't want Arsenal to succumb to spending silly money on players and that's what needs to happen to compete. There's no half measures and with a team like City it just isn't going to be possible to win the league with even 3 players costing £40m each. In any case what sort of message does that send to the rest of our team.

Ok so we could buy in a few more players IRO £20m but does anyone seriously think this level of player will result in a genuine title race team?

IMHO the premier league is knackered and so I'd rather carry on as we are, doing things the right way, rather than jump on the bandwagon.

[Nom de ploom]

I genuinely thought that if you missed CL qual. wenger would go.

I think he'll stay now but this will be his last season. he'll take french national coaches job.

[Fatman2]

Yeah possibly an end of an era. It'll be interesting to see what happens now that Pat has gone

Either way, tough shoes to fill on both parts.

[NoVetec]

I'm so relieved the season's ended and that we clinched 3rd.

Again, we have to buy decent, experienced players.

But I'd rather we looked at the market closely, and say purchase £10 or £20m players as opposed to splashing the cash with seemingly no limit or on wages.

Still though, fairplay and well done to City.

Brilliant end to a brilliantly bizarre season.

[bikerPaul]

Always interesting to hear someone elses thoughts.

Fatman2 said:

Sorry but I don't agree at all. We're no way near embarrassing mediocrity.

Sure it's been a tough season but it's also been an astonishing come back. There are always a lot of 'ifs' and 'buts' but Tottenham's poor run was too long to be down to Harry. Ultimately they had a similar season as us except the money they spent.

Playing Devil's Advocate then are you saying that matching Spuds is acceptable?

Surely we want to be challenging for the title as we were used to under AW?

Fatman2 said:

I thought our team showed great character to pick themselves up and end up third. I know there was a lot of banter with the derby but the 5-2 win showed me just how much determination the team had to rectify things (in a similar way to City when they were 8 points behind United).

I don't think that is a fair analogy. Chasing a team for a consolation Champions League place as opposed to chasing a team for the title are two very different things. To be fair the 5-2 against Spuds was probably the highlight of the season but lets keep it in perspective.

Fatman2 said:

The problem Arsenal face is crossing the line that has been drawn by teams like Chelsea and now City. Personally I don't want Arsenal to succumb to spending silly money on players and that's what needs to happen to compete. There's no half measures and with a team like City it just isn't going to be possible to win the league with even 3 players costing £40m each. In any case what sort of message does that send to the rest of our team.

Ok so we could buy in a few more players IRO £20m but does anyone seriously think this level of player will result in a genuine title race team?

IMHO the premier league is knackered and so I'd rather carry on as we are, doing things the right way, rather than jump on the bandwagon.

To cross the line you have to get close to it and this season we were nowhere. If you think we are competing but not crossing the line then i am stunned.

I'm not convinced we have to spend "silly money" to build a squad like Citeh's as we probably don't have that amount but we do need to sign a few quality players to give us a chance to compete. If we don't spend then next season we will again be playing for 3rd or 4th.

How bad do you think this season would've been if RVP hadn't been on fire?

[Cheib]

We finished third which is an improvement but the table tells no lies....we are not going to close that gap in a year even with two or three players of the right calibre. It's also worth remembering that we lost our three best midfield players this season Cesc, Nasri and Wilshere. We'll obviously have Wilshere back nexst season.

Wenger has to make this side harder to beat....that's the absolute priority....we need to conceed twenty fewer goals. We aren't going to win the PL conceeding nigh on 50 goals. Maybe Steve Bould stepping up can help with that.

Having said that I think our team/squad is in a much better position than Spurs or Chelsea who I think will be our main competiton next season. Both have much older players in key positions that will need replacing over the next season or two.

[NoVetec]

Talking of Chelsea, would anyone object to us having Kalou?

He's been in Wenger's eyes before and his contract is coming to an end or has a year left IIRC.

[Cheib]

NoVetec said:

Talking of Chelsea, would anyone object to us having Kalou?

He's been in Wenger's eyes before and his contract is coming to an end or has a year left IIRC.

With Joel Campbell coming back from loan and perhaps also Miyachi I can't see Wenger buying another forward with Podolski already a done deal.

He has got four (five if you incude Arshavin) strikers he desperately needs rid of though!

Edited by Cheib on Monday 14th May 16:25

[Panclan]

bikerPaul said:

- Longest spell without a trophy continues

1896 - 1930 is far longer, or more recently 1953 - 1970. History shows that Arsenals trophies have normally come in groups, 1930 - 38, 1947 - 53, it's only since around 1989 - 2005 that they were more common.

[Panclan]

How has Kyle Bartley done at Rangers this year, is he ready to step up to the first team as a backup next season?

[HarryW]

What about Henri Lansbury coming back for a full season, very versatile but prefers the middle of the park?
He's spent most of the last two seasons out on loan in the championship, Ipswich and the Hammers, is he good enough for the first team. He doesn't appear to be a duffer from what I've seen, he's 22 now and can't be any worse than some squad players like Diarby/Arshavin or is he just tied into a long term contract they can't get out of so farm him out on loan?

[Cheib]

HarryW said:

What about Henri Lansbury coming back for a full season, very versatile but prefers the middle of the park?
He's spent most of the last two seasons out on loan in the championship, Ipswich and the Hammers, is he good enough for the first team. He doesn't appear to be a duffer from what I've seen, he's 22 now and can't be any worse than some squad players like Diarby/Arshavin or is he just tied into a long term contract they can't get out of so farm him out on loan?

I'd love to see him given a crack.

It's a weird one though as by the age of 22 Wenger has normally made them first team regulars or sold them.

[Gun]

As far as I can make out we need a central defender, left back and a defensive midfield (M'Vila?) also a second keeper as back up for Chesney.

The biggest job is going to be getting rid of the deadwood from the squad which really needs to happen sooner rather than later. The likes of Almunia, Fabianski, Squillaci, Chamakh, Arshavin and Bendtner just shouldn't be in the squad next season.

[Fatman2]

bikerPaul said:

Always interesting to hear someone elses thoughts.

Absolutely I understand the frustrations as much as the next man but feel that it's a bit harsh to say we're mediocre. I still think we have a quality that other teams can only dream about. Is it enough to win the premiership? Probably not but I don't think we're a million miles away (although I could be totally deluded LOL).

I guess it all depends on your POV. I think Spurs matched us in terms of position, GD etc. but the table is where it ends. To be fair they played some great football the past few seasons but the finance is what says it all. For all the money they spent over the years, which was considerably more than us, they've been unable to do any better than match our season. Personally I would find it interesting to see what would happen if they lost Bale and Modric and failed to replace them adequately (as we did with Nasri and Fabregas). I'm not saying that Bale/Modrich are on par with our loss but I'm not sure they would bounce back quite as well as we did. This is what makes us the better side IMHO. It's not how much you spend but what you can do with what you have.

In fact, if we listed the teams that spent more than us over the past few seasons then I think you'd find them all below us except for the two Manc teams. I appreciate we have heritage but the rest of the premiership must be wondering how the hell we have ended up where we have so consistently. Personally I still think you're being a touch harsh. Don't forget that the two Manc teams have stormed ahead with points but failed abysmally in the CL. It's been a mad season and who'd have placed Chelsea in the final given their terrible position in the table. Were it not for the CL final they could well find themselves uncomfortably out of the CL altogether, which is mad considering the amount of money they've spent. I doubt they'll become a Leeds but if Roman gets bored and pulls out then they may well be stuffed.

I don't know though. I think my analogy was reasonable(ish). If we failed to get 3rd and Chelsea won the CL then we would most certainly not attract any players to keep RVP's waning interest. It would be disasterous for us. If you look at teams like Liverpool, they have a decent looking squad but they've had a torrid time trying to lift themselves up. They thought beating Everton would kickstart their season but they've only won about 4 matches in 2012. Nightmare. We can criticise Arsenal but lifting spirits and turning things around is a huge task and one they've done extremely well.

In terms of crossing the line I think you'd have to spend the same or more money than teams like Tottenham over a period of years to beat City. The old days of the unbeatables are sadly gone as the game has changed too much IMHO and you can see this in the number of players that Arsenal bring on that end up going off to bigger teams too soon. AW's philosophy of developing players is a great one but sadly the great players that he develops i.e. Fabregas, RVP etc. are major targets for other teams before they can truly deliver the goods. I think it used to be a 10 year cycle but nowadays players are being snapped up after around 5 when they are just coming good. Thus to keep these players it's necessary to either pay big bucks or pay big bucks to recruit them.

Re: RVP I think he's been outstanding this season but Arsenal aren't a 1 man team and so he's had to get the service in order to score. For sure the scoring is the ultimate end product but the other 10 players have to work to get the ball in a great position to get the goal.

Maybe you're right and if he hadn't been on form then we could have ended up like Liverpool. Plenty of balls in the box but no one to convert. However, unlike Liverpool we didn't spend £35m on a striker who's only got about half a dozen premiership goals all season.

Edited by Fatman2 on Monday 14th May 22:34

[mylesmcd]

Gun said:

As far as I can make out we need a central defender, left back and a defensive midfield (M'Vila?) also a second keeper as back up for Chesney.

The biggest job is going to be getting rid of the deadwood from the squad which really needs to happen sooner rather than later. The likes of Almunia, Fabianski, Squillaci, Chamakh, Arshavin and Bendtner just shouldn't be in the squad next season.

don't forget the 'pong! He will be back next year (drennnnch!) but, after the injury his form might need time to return.

I agree on the CB position and also a fire sale is needed. Don't forget Denilson either!!

[Cheib]

BBC saying RVP is having contract negotiations at Wenger's house at 10.30 on Wednesday morning.......now if I was RVP and I wanted to drop a bombshell on Wenger (or even have a confrontational meeting) I don't think I'd want to have a meeting in his house. Neutral ground like a hotel or even the training ground for that.

My guess is he's staying.

[Chad_Hugo]

I had said a few times over the past months that I'm very confident he will stay, after RVP's comments to the BBC on match of the day it looks like my confidence was misplaced.

Other than directly saying 'I'm off' could he have dropped a bigger hint that he's likely to leave than saying "I have been here for 8 years whatever happens I will always love the club".

It wasn't only those words either, his body language, tone, everything pointed to someone who has more or less decided to leave. He could easily have given a more generic answer, or not answered the question. I think his choice of words and the way he delivered them spoke volumes.

If he does leave, do not blame Robin, any footballer will always put his personal, and professional interest's before the club's. Blame Wenger, Gazidis and the board.

Pay on par with other world class players and the right additions would have kept him here, if we can't deliver either we can't expect to keep a player of his quality, especially when he is fast approaching 30, has won nothing with us, and will be very unlikely to win anything with us unless there is a managerial and/or ownership change which we can only speculate on.

It's sad to say but at the moment our best chance of keeping Robin is probably his wife persuading him to stay in London because of their family life.

At least Almunia's contract has finally expired