The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)

[LF5335]

GTO-3R said:

So a couple of mediocre rebuilding seasons under McKenna is ok but not with EtH? Doesn't make sense!

I can see his point. ETH has had a couple of rebuilding seasons already, spent a fortune and we’re certainly no better than we were.

[and31]

bstb3 said:

This is good from Bruno:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/bruno-fern...

I like that

[SWoll]

GTO-3R said:

Gordon Hill said:

I'd personally like McKenna, I don't get the hype with Tuchel and Poch, they'd both want another £400 million that we don't have, I don't think that this reset is going down that route.

So a clear out, a couple of mediocre seasons (no change there) and a focus on home grown talent and good scouting.

So a couple of mediocre rebuilding seasons under McKenna is ok but not with EtH? Doesn't make sense!

3rd and then 8th isn't rebuilding though, it's demolition. Had it been the other way around I would agree with you.

LF5335 said:

GTO-3R said:

So a couple of mediocre rebuilding seasons under McKenna is ok but not with EtH? Doesn't make sense!

I can see his point. ETH has had a couple of rebuilding seasons already, spent a fortune and we’re certainly no better than we were.

Your lowest ever PL finish should be proof enough of that?

Edited by SWoll on Friday 24th May 13:37

[simon800]

I think there is a massive difference between how a 38 year old stepping into a first big managerial role vs someone in their mid 50's whose meant to have been there and done it will be judged.

Ten Hag has managed for well over a decade, and is at an age where he's meant to be a more immediate solution (same as if we bought in Poch or Tuchel).

It's hard to feel we are "building" toward anything with Ten Hag - the signings he has made have mainly been short term/immediate fix type signings rather than young signings with high potential.

Of his signings, most already need replacing. What kind of a 3 year project is it if you sign players in year 1 it, and by the end of year 2 you need to sell them?

If we have a 38 year old in charge, and a spine of a team who are in their early 20's, playing exciting attacking football I think there will be a feeling of building something and patience is more likely to be applied.

Realistically if we keep Ten Hag I'd say expectations for next season would be to finish probably around 6th or so.

[Challo]

I wonder if they have looked at Arsenal and Arteta and thought we could do the same with McKenna?

[simon800]

Looks like it's all but confirmed;

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/...

Manchester United have decided to sack Erik ten Hag after the FA Cup final against Manchester City.

Ten Hag, who joined the club two years ago, is set to depart after enduring a fraught campaign. United finished eighth in the Premier League, their lowest league finish since 1990, and their hopes of qualifying for Europe rest on them beating City at Wembley on Saturday.

A well-placed source said that even winning the Cup would not save Ten Hag. The decision to change manager will be the most significant move made by Sir Jim Ratcliffe and his allies since Ineos took a minority stake and control of football operations.

United have identified Thomas Tuchel, Mauricio Pochettino, Kieran McKenna, Graham Potter and Thomas Frank as potential replacements. Ten Hag won the Carabao Cup and finished third last season but he has been unable to build on his early work and many of his signings have not worked out.

United declined to comment after being approached by the Guardian.

[Challo]

simon800 said:

Looks like it's all but confirmed;

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/...

Manchester United have decided to sack Erik ten Hag after the FA Cup final against Manchester City.

Ten Hag, who joined the club two years ago, is set to depart after enduring a fraught campaign. United finished eighth in the Premier League, their lowest league finish since 1990, and their hopes of qualifying for Europe rest on them beating City at Wembley on Saturday.

A well-placed source said that even winning the Cup would not save Ten Hag. The decision to change manager will be the most significant move made by Sir Jim Ratcliffe and his allies since Ineos took a minority stake and control of football operations.

United have identified Thomas Tuchel, Mauricio Pochettino, Kieran McKenna, Graham Potter and Thomas Frank as potential replacements. Ten Hag won the Carabao Cup and finished third last season but he has been unable to build on his early work and many of his signings have not worked out.

United declined to comment after being approached by the Guardian.

If that is to be the case, the club has made a fking mess of this. Embarrassing to say the least, and i feel sorry for ETH.

[franki68]

Challo said:

If that is to be the case, the club has made a fking mess of this. Embarrassing to say the least, and i feel sorry for ETH.

Indeed ,whatever one’s opinion on ETH if this is true and has been leaked it’s utterly disgraceful by the club (the leaking of such info)

[simon800]

Yep, it seems we still have some leaks despite earlier attempts to stamp them out. Not ideal.

Apparently the journalist has good Chelsea connections, so it may have been leaked around what McKenna has told Chelsea possibly.

It's a tricky one this though. We've lost 19 games this season and it was likely we'd change manager. Now say we lose 6-0 tomorrow and we hadn't been sounding other managers out, and McKenna has gone to Chelsea, Poch has gone to Bayern etc and we are left choosing between Potter and Southgate - everyone would say it was shambolic that we weren't sounding other managers out.

Instead, Chelsea's sacking Poch means we have had to sound other managers out as we may lose our priority target. Yet this process itself of course lets on that we are going to replace the manager, and that is also seen as shambolic.

It's possibly a scenario in which the club simply couldn't win, they've tried to keep it under wraps but the Poch situation meant we had to act.

Edited by simon800 on Friday 24th May 14:54

[Gordon Hill]

GTO-3R said:

Gordon Hill said:

I'd personally like McKenna, I don't get the hype with Tuchel and Poch, they'd both want another £400 million that we don't have, I don't think that this reset is going down that route.

So a clear out, a couple of mediocre seasons (no change there) and a focus on home grown talent and good scouting.

So a couple of mediocre rebuilding seasons under McKenna is ok but not with EtH? Doesn't make sense!

Ok I'll try and make it make sense to you, established manager spends £400 million on mostly dross but the team is worse, next season he demands more multi millions to buy more dross mostly Dutch or players that have played for him before, team gets worse, repeat.
Or young manager comes in, trouble makers and non triers are cleared out, young, hungry players who have not yet developed an ego replace them and new recruits are scouted properly, a system of playing is developed and recruits are brought in who can fit into that system.
Our best players, all 6 of them, are retained, so that we have a mixture of experience and youth. It may be grim at first (so no change) but long term is a better solution than spending £300 million a season and getting nowhere.
Glad I could clear that up for you.

Edited by Gordon Hill on Friday 24th May 14:55

[GTO-3R]

Challo said:

If that is to be the case, the club has made a fking mess of this. Embarrassing to say the least, and i feel sorry for ETH.

Yep. It's been handled appallingly by the club and no better than what the Glazers would do. How is he and the players supposed to go in to this with a positive mindset with all this hanging over their heads. Ridiculous.

[simon800]

He says it better than me

[GTO-3R]

Gordon Hill said:

Ok I'll try and make it make sense to you, established manager spends £400 million on mostly dross but the team is worse, next season he demands more multi millions to buy more dross mostly Dutch or players that have played for him before, team gets worse, repeat.
Or young manager comes in, trouble makers and non triers are cleared out, young, hungry players who have not yet developed an ego replace them and new recruits are scouted properly, a system of playing is developed and recruits are brought in who can fit into that system.
Our best players, all 6 of them, are retained, so that we have a mixture of experience and youth. It may be grim at first (so no change) but long term is a better solution than spending £300 million a season and getting nowhere.
Glad I could clear that up for you.

Edited by Gordon Hill on Friday 24th May 14:55

Ok so McKenna is allowed to rebuild under the new ownership and given time but EtH isn't? No manager, including Pep and Klopp have always bought well but they have been backed by the club by getting rid of unwanted players where as EtH and managers before him are stuck with said players because the club puts them on huge contracts so we're essentially stuck with them.

Pep, Klopp and Arteta were all given time with proper backing from the club and management, so should EtH.

[TownIdiot]

GTO-3R said:

Ok so McKenna is allowed to rebuild under the new ownership and given time but EtH isn't? No manager, including Pep and Klopp have always bought well but they have been backed by the club by getting rid of unwanted players where as EtH and managers before him are stuck with said players because the club puts them on huge contracts so we're essentially stuck with them.

Pep, Klopp and Arteta were all given time with proper backing from the club and management, so should EtH.

In reality Pep and Klopp made an impact pretty quickly.

Looking at Emery at Villa you do wonder what he'd have done at Arsenal given as much time as Arteta

[Challo]

simon800 said:

He says it better than me

I completely get his point, and its due diligence for the club to being doing it.

The issue I have everything being leaked etc. I know its going to be challenging because everyone has their own agenda, and while the club are not making statements, you can bet you agents / representatives are potentially leaking rumours to fit their own needs.

From the outside it looks stty and poor from our club. Especially before a cup final.

[simon800]

Challo said:

I completely get his point, and its due diligence for the club to being doing it.

The issue I have everything being leaked etc. I know its going to be challenging because everyone has their own agenda, and while the club are not making statements, you can bet you agents / representatives are potentially leaking rumours to fit their own needs.

From the outside it looks stty and poor from our club. Especially before a cup final.

I agree. It could be McKenna has said no to Chelsea because he's coming to us, and the leak emanated from the Chelsea side for example. It would be dumb of the club to be leaking this themselves though, as you say it looks poor but I suppose in a way maybe it can't be helped if it's not come from them.

[TownIdiot]

simon800 said:

I agree. It could be McKenna has said no to Chelsea because he's coming to us, and the leak emanated from the Chelsea side for example. It would be dumb of the club to be leaking this themselves though, as you say it looks poor but I suppose in a way maybe it can't be helped if it's not come from them.

Having worked on the fringes of the game, those in it gossip like anything and seem incapable of keeping a secret. I went to the races once and sat next to the chief scout of a top club -at the time it was a good laugh and I presumed he was playing up to be good company. It transpired he had been telling the truth and reveiled most of the club's upcoming transfers and targets. Madness.
And that's before you get to agents planting stories to drum up interest and journalists just making stuff up.

You can see why someone like McKenna would take a top job now as he'd then be set for life financially, but if he had any sense and believed in himself he'd go to somewhere like Brighton and if he does another great job for a season he'd have the world at his feet

[LF5335]

GTO-3R said:

Ok so McKenna is allowed to rebuild under the new ownership and given time but EtH isn't? No manager, including Pep and Klopp have always bought well but they have been backed by the club by getting rid of unwanted players where as EtH and managers before him are stuck with said players because the club puts them on huge contracts so we're essentially stuck with them.

Pep, Klopp and Arteta were all given time with proper backing from the club and management, so should EtH.

ETH is stuck with Antony, Casemiro, Mount, Malacia, Onana, Eriksen. They were his buys. Sure he’s got issues with other players but his signings are just as much if not more of a problem.

[Gordon Hill]

GTO-3R said:

Gordon Hill said:

Ok I'll try and make it make sense to you, established manager spends £400 million on mostly dross but the team is worse, next season he demands more multi millions to buy more dross mostly Dutch or players that have played for him before, team gets worse, repeat.
Or young manager comes in, trouble makers and non triers are cleared out, young, hungry players who have not yet developed an ego replace them and new recruits are scouted properly, a system of playing is developed and recruits are brought in who can fit into that system.
Our best players, all 6 of them, are retained, so that we have a mixture of experience and youth. It may be grim at first (so no change) but long term is a better solution than spending £300 million a season and getting nowhere.
Glad I could clear that up for you.

Edited by Gordon Hill on Friday 24th May 14:55

Ok so McKenna is allowed to rebuild under the new ownership and given time but EtH isn't? No manager, including Pep and Klopp have always bought well but they have been backed by the club by getting rid of unwanted players where as EtH and managers before him are stuck with said players because the club puts them on huge contracts so we're essentially stuck with them.

Pep, Klopp and Arteta were all given time with proper backing from the club and management, so should EtH.

Haven't you been watching us this season? Players that he's bought, tactics (lack of) that he's implemented, getting played off the park by everybody that we play, shots raining in on our goal, making it up as we go along.
So after 2 full seasons you see this as progress being made?
Pep, Arteta, Klopp had a style of play and philosophy straight away, in 2 years and £400 million quid we have none of these things.

[RoadRunner220]

simon800 said:

Yep, it seems we still have some leaks despite earlier attempts to stamp them out. Not ideal.

Seems like we need to get Rooney's missus in to teach the club how to find the source of leaks.