The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 8)
Discussion
anniesdad said:
I honestly thought that we could contain them. The league has gone, top 4 target it is.
First half of that sentence - why did you think that? Few teams have, and your defence is poor, on the whole, so the chances were, while not slim, let's say fanciful!I think with the players and manager you have, you did as well as could be expected, to be honest. They even gave you your goal!
LoonyTunes said:
200Plus Club said:
It's a man Utd thread for fans to talk about our team and performance. Cheers again.
I've been told it's not. It's a thread ABOUT Man Utd for everyone to have their say, Scouser, Manc, Cockney et all.There are dedicated forums for fans elsewhere.
Jose’s post match interview is just pure comedy gold , you have the admit the Premier league is a much better place with him than without him .
Edited by Black can man on Monday 12th November 10:44
uk66fastback said:
anniesdad said:
I honestly thought that we could contain them. The league has gone, top 4 target it is.
First half of that sentence - why did you think that? Few teams have, and your defence is poor, on the whole, so the chances were, while not slim, let's say fanciful!I think with the players and manager you have, you did as well as could be expected, to be honest. They even gave you your goal!
I saw it at Chelsea, the team largely freeze when the opposition is in/near the 6 yard box.
D Silva really wasn't the focus of attention though, B Silva was ... and Utd's defenders were paying pretty close attention to attackers, as Smalling fouled Aguero some said.
It's impossible to follow every player in the box all the time, as players watch the ball (naturally). No-one would ever score a goal in your mind!
If, if, if, if ... it was a regulation win for City. You had ONE shot on target and that was a penalty. You were mostly poor, so for Maureen to say you played well is nonsense!
It's impossible to follow every player in the box all the time, as players watch the ball (naturally). No-one would ever score a goal in your mind!
If, if, if, if ... it was a regulation win for City. You had ONE shot on target and that was a penalty. You were mostly poor, so for Maureen to say you played well is nonsense!
uk66fastback said:
D Silva really wasn't the focus of attention though, B Silva was ... and Utd's defenders were paying pretty close attention to attackers, as Smalling fouled Aguero some said.
It's impossible to follow every player in the box all the time, as players watch the ball (naturally). No-one would ever score a goal in your mind!
If, if, if, if ... it was a regulation win for City. You had ONE shot on target and that was a penalty. You were mostly poor, so for Maureen to say you played well is nonsense!
Are you after an argument? It's impossible to follow every player in the box all the time, as players watch the ball (naturally). No-one would ever score a goal in your mind!
If, if, if, if ... it was a regulation win for City. You had ONE shot on target and that was a penalty. You were mostly poor, so for Maureen to say you played well is nonsense!
You covered my point though with your first response. D Silva was the danger man and we didn't sniff the danger. It's because they (Herrera and Fellaini) were focussed elsewhere that they didn't recognise the danger D Silva presented. Pretty simple really.
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIz-9g4jafg - here at 1:55 watch Silva's movement and lack of reaction to the threat from Fellaini and Herrera. At that point they're dead.
footnote]Edited by anniesdad on Monday 12th November 11:14[/footnote]
Edited by anniesdad on Monday 12th November 11:20
200Plus Club said:
I don't believe anyone else is anywhere near the level of city currently or longer term this season. Liverpool are poss the only near challengers perhaps. Everyone else is playing catch up.
We (LFC) are not at their standard but hopefully won't give up until its mathematically impossible - got to keep the pressure on and hope they slip up, but the reality is us slipping up is more likely.As others have said no shame in losing to this City side as long as you make them work for it, arguably you did that to some extent but no shot on target in open play is lamentable.
I'd say the more alarming issue is not one game but over the first 12 you have negative goal difference!
Having supported Liverpool for 3 decades my views probably aren't wanted here, but anyway, I come in peace.
Linderlof, Shaw, Herrera, Fellani and Lingard are nowhere near good enough and shouldn't be playing for you.
Yes they have decent games, and perform well now and again, but that's 5 players starting in a Derby that wouldn't even make the bench at any of your top 6 rivals.
You can carry one or two average players in the prem, but not half of the team.
Linderlof, Shaw, Herrera, Fellani and Lingard are nowhere near good enough and shouldn't be playing for you.
Yes they have decent games, and perform well now and again, but that's 5 players starting in a Derby that wouldn't even make the bench at any of your top 6 rivals.
You can carry one or two average players in the prem, but not half of the team.
Adam B said:
200Plus Club said:
I don't believe anyone else is anywhere near the level of city currently or longer term this season. Liverpool are poss the only near challengers perhaps. Everyone else is playing catch up.
We (LFC) are not at their standard but hopefully won't give up until its mathematically impossible - got to keep the pressure on and hope they slip up, but the reality is us slipping up is more likely.As others have said no shame in losing to this City side as long as you make them work for it, arguably you did that to some extent but no shot on target in open play is lamentable.
I'd say the more alarming issue is not one game but over the first 12 you have negative goal difference!
I totally agree with your last comment that's the wider problem. JM has said he's sacrificed some of the defensive discipline this season which is fine but the problem is if your front 3 and midfield aren't creating enough then you've no chance. Often the gap between the front 3 and midfield is huge. That's our problem and I for one don't have an opinion on a quick fix for it.
te.anniesdad said:
Are you after an argument?
Of course not, but you seem to think your defenders should be perfect all the time and never make a mistake - not going to happen to ANY team. City's defenders are probably not even THAT great, but they never really come under that much scrutiny or pressure - certainly not in the EPL, the CL might be another matter. Even in the days of Ferdinand and Vidic you did suffer defensive lapses, it just wasn't as noticeable as you were attacking a lot more instead of defending which is your default position nowadays (mainly ie to the manager you have).If City hadn't scored from that attack, they'd have scored from another ... they did sit off a bit once they'd taken the lead.
I just don't understand what you see every week which gave you any hope you would be able to hold them!?
wjb said:
Having supported Liverpool for 3 decades my views probably aren't wanted here, but anyway, I come in peace.
Linderlof, Shaw, Herrera, Fellani and Lingard are nowhere near good enough and shouldn't be playing for you.
Yes they have decent games, and perform well now and again, but that's 5 players starting in a Derby that wouldn't even make the bench at any of your top 6 rivals.
You can carry one or two average players in the prem, but not half of the team.
i dont think many of us would disagree with some of or all of the names mentioned. Jones, Valencia, Young etc also although brilliant in their time are also not at the level of top 4 team defenders. Linderlof, Shaw, Herrera, Fellani and Lingard are nowhere near good enough and shouldn't be playing for you.
Yes they have decent games, and perform well now and again, but that's 5 players starting in a Derby that wouldn't even make the bench at any of your top 6 rivals.
You can carry one or two average players in the prem, but not half of the team.
A sustained and determined improvement in the quality of players we buy, and an improvement generally in the club outlook since Fergie is long overdue. he managed a final win with a squad already in decline.
Telling fact from yesterday apparently 2 of the starting team were Jose "buys", not saying that absolves him, a couple of players he bought are sat doing sweet FA by the look of it also, but it does show some of the underlying hangovers from Fergie, Moyes and LVG.
i'm not heartbroken or upset in anyway by yesterdays loss, half expected, football comes and goes with success equally, it may be years yet before we are challenging again for the League.
I think the argument made that Shaw isn’t good enough is highly contentious ,he had Mahrez pretty sorted yesterday,and has been one of our better players this season.
I mentioned the immobility of the midfield prior and all their goals came from their midfielders going beyond ours.without pogba there is no creativity in the midfield
Jose has had the time to build something ,we look like a patchwork team ,and it’s not good enough.
I mentioned the immobility of the midfield prior and all their goals came from their midfielders going beyond ours.without pogba there is no creativity in the midfield
Jose has had the time to build something ,we look like a patchwork team ,and it’s not good enough.
uk66fastback said:
anniesdad said:
Are you after an argument?
Of course not, but you seem to think your defenders should be perfect all the time and never make a mistake - not going to happen to ANY team. City's defenders are probably not even THAT great, but they never really come under that much scrutiny or pressure - certainly not in the EPL, the CL might be another matter. Even in the days of Ferdinand and Vidic you did suffer defensive lapses, it just wasn't as noticeable as you were attacking a lot more instead of defending which is your default position nowadays (mainly ie to the manager you have).If City hadn't scored from that attack, they'd have scored from another ... they did sit off a bit once they'd taken the lead.
I just don't understand what you see every week which gave you any hope you would be able to hold them!?
I don't expect our defenders to be perfect all the time. For this game I expected them to defend better as a unit than they have been doing. The result wasn't a shock. Thank god that ALL defenders do make mistakes from time to time as it would be a pretty boring sport if they didn't.
Perhaps I am micro-critiquing that first goal but to shut off D. Silva's threat wouldn't have been too much effort for our midfielders Herrera and Fellaini.
If that goal hadn't gone in, who knows what would have happened. Most people would agree with you that City would have found a way through at some point.
200Plus Club said:
graylag said:
Blaming DeGea is a joke. United were rubbish as they’ve been for most of this season. He’s on his way out anyway as he won’t waste his career on what is now a sinking ship.
Maybe once he could see a team being built on his solid foundations now it’s a non-starter. Look at the City keeper. One second United are threatening, the next Young is conceding a free kick on the edge of our penalty area.
Jesus wept who blamed DDG?Maybe once he could see a team being built on his solid foundations now it’s a non-starter. Look at the City keeper. One second United are threatening, the next Young is conceding a free kick on the edge of our penalty area.
I said disappointed with DDG for the Aguero goal, he seemed to fold up.
He's our rock generally.
Cheers.
He has a tendency to throw his arms back before making a save. Which means his hands take longer to get to the ball. Its only a fraction of a second, but makes the difference between making a save or not.
He also spreads his legs too far when setting to make a save. This causes him issues in his movement at times. But more importantly, like yesterday, it makes him a few inches shorter. Again, it was enough to be the difference between making the save or not.
48Valves said:
DDG is a very good keeper and has kept you in more games than he has made mistakes. But he does have some technical issues which let him down like they did yesterday.
It takes a braver man than me to criticise DDG. I think his form is patchy at the mo but to criticise his technique when he's widely regarded as being one of, if not the, best goalkeeper in the world is a stretch for me. He's one of our only truly world class performers and you'll not get many United fans disagreeing with me I shouldn't think. This could be quite a lengthy post, as it’s a theory on football as a whole, but relates to whether the game has moved on and away from Mourinho.
I see football as a cycle between all out attack being the style of play and all out defence. The cycle takes around 25-30 years to go full circle. If you imagine it as a clock face, then all out attack is at 12 o’clock and all out defence at 6 o’clock. If you imagine the minute hand moving around the clock face, then I’d suggest we’re currently at about 10 to the hour where attacking football is the predominant and successful style, with even more to come!
Mourinho came to the fore when the “time” was around 20 past the hour and moving away from attack to all out defence. His most successful period was between 25 past and 25 to the hour. However, this is the crucial bit, the cycle has moved on, attack is the new style and it’s left him behind. Few managers can succeed across both styles, hence why most managers have around. 10-15 year shelf life and then retire or simply never find another job.
Mourinho’s time has passed. He is unable to adapt to a more fluid and attacking style and is relying on football that is no longer going to bring the results it once did. In another 10-15 years his defensive style will be to the fore again and the likes of Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino will have either retired, or adapted. Very, very few managers can adapt to both styles. Ferguson managed it, but his style was always based on attack, hence his struggles when the defensive style came to the for, I think it took him five years to win a title around the time when Mourinho first joined Chelsea. The defensive style was there for all to see in his later years though.
Wenger was an attacking manager and his last decade was unsuccessful from a league perspective, as he couldn’t adapt to defensive football, but started to deliver better results in the last few years when the shackles were released on his team.
This isn’t looking for an argument and it’s certainly not an attempt to attack Manchester United, it’s more of an outlook on how the game has moved on and other clubs have adapted better by picking more attack minded managers. Look at Bournemouth and Wolves for confirmation of what you can achieve if you have a go. Leicester just went for it a few years ago and won the league with that style. Even Burnley last season were left to just play and they had an excellent season, this season they’ve gone back to more negative football and it’s killing them. You could argue we’re back to a time where Keegan football would be successful.
I see football as a cycle between all out attack being the style of play and all out defence. The cycle takes around 25-30 years to go full circle. If you imagine it as a clock face, then all out attack is at 12 o’clock and all out defence at 6 o’clock. If you imagine the minute hand moving around the clock face, then I’d suggest we’re currently at about 10 to the hour where attacking football is the predominant and successful style, with even more to come!
Mourinho came to the fore when the “time” was around 20 past the hour and moving away from attack to all out defence. His most successful period was between 25 past and 25 to the hour. However, this is the crucial bit, the cycle has moved on, attack is the new style and it’s left him behind. Few managers can succeed across both styles, hence why most managers have around. 10-15 year shelf life and then retire or simply never find another job.
Mourinho’s time has passed. He is unable to adapt to a more fluid and attacking style and is relying on football that is no longer going to bring the results it once did. In another 10-15 years his defensive style will be to the fore again and the likes of Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino will have either retired, or adapted. Very, very few managers can adapt to both styles. Ferguson managed it, but his style was always based on attack, hence his struggles when the defensive style came to the for, I think it took him five years to win a title around the time when Mourinho first joined Chelsea. The defensive style was there for all to see in his later years though.
Wenger was an attacking manager and his last decade was unsuccessful from a league perspective, as he couldn’t adapt to defensive football, but started to deliver better results in the last few years when the shackles were released on his team.
This isn’t looking for an argument and it’s certainly not an attempt to attack Manchester United, it’s more of an outlook on how the game has moved on and other clubs have adapted better by picking more attack minded managers. Look at Bournemouth and Wolves for confirmation of what you can achieve if you have a go. Leicester just went for it a few years ago and won the league with that style. Even Burnley last season were left to just play and they had an excellent season, this season they’ve gone back to more negative football and it’s killing them. You could argue we’re back to a time where Keegan football would be successful.
graylag said:
This could be quite a lengthy post, as it’s a theory on football as a whole, but relates to whether the game has moved on and away from Mourinho.
I see football as a cycle between all out attack being the style of play and all out defence. The cycle takes around 25-30 years to go full circle. If you imagine it as a clock face, then all out attack is at 12 o’clock and all out defence at 6 o’clock. If you imagine the minute hand moving around the clock face, then I’d suggest we’re currently at about 10 to the hour where attacking football is the predominant and successful style, with even more to come!
Mourinho came to the fore when the “time” was around 20 past the hour and moving away from attack to all out defence. His most successful period was between 25 past and 25 to the hour. However, this is the crucial bit, the cycle has moved on, attack is the new style and it’s left him behind. Few managers can succeed across both styles, hence why most managers have around. 10-15 year shelf life and then retire or simply never find another job.
Mourinho’s time has passed. He is unable to adapt to a more fluid and attacking style and is relying on football that is no longer going to bring the results it once did. In another 10-15 years his defensive style will be to the fore again and the likes of Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino will have either retired, or adapted. Very, very few managers can adapt to both styles. Ferguson managed it, but his style was always based on attack, hence his struggles when the defensive style came to the for, I think it took him five years to win a title around the time when Mourinho first joined Chelsea. The defensive style was there for all to see in his later years though.
Wenger was an attacking manager and his last decade was unsuccessful from a league perspective, as he couldn’t adapt to defensive football, but started to deliver better results in the last few years when the shackles were released on his team.
This isn’t looking for an argument and it’s certainly not an attempt to attack Manchester United, it’s more of an outlook on how the game has moved on and other clubs have adapted better by picking more attack minded managers. Look at Bournemouth and Wolves for confirmation of what you can achieve if you have a go. Leicester just went for it a few years ago and won the league with that style. Even Burnley last season were left to just play and they had an excellent season, this season they’ve gone back to more negative football and it’s killing them. You could argue we’re back to a time where Keegan football would be successful.
City have the best players ,a monkey could manage that team into winning the league.I see football as a cycle between all out attack being the style of play and all out defence. The cycle takes around 25-30 years to go full circle. If you imagine it as a clock face, then all out attack is at 12 o’clock and all out defence at 6 o’clock. If you imagine the minute hand moving around the clock face, then I’d suggest we’re currently at about 10 to the hour where attacking football is the predominant and successful style, with even more to come!
Mourinho came to the fore when the “time” was around 20 past the hour and moving away from attack to all out defence. His most successful period was between 25 past and 25 to the hour. However, this is the crucial bit, the cycle has moved on, attack is the new style and it’s left him behind. Few managers can succeed across both styles, hence why most managers have around. 10-15 year shelf life and then retire or simply never find another job.
Mourinho’s time has passed. He is unable to adapt to a more fluid and attacking style and is relying on football that is no longer going to bring the results it once did. In another 10-15 years his defensive style will be to the fore again and the likes of Klopp, Guardiola, Pochettino will have either retired, or adapted. Very, very few managers can adapt to both styles. Ferguson managed it, but his style was always based on attack, hence his struggles when the defensive style came to the for, I think it took him five years to win a title around the time when Mourinho first joined Chelsea. The defensive style was there for all to see in his later years though.
Wenger was an attacking manager and his last decade was unsuccessful from a league perspective, as he couldn’t adapt to defensive football, but started to deliver better results in the last few years when the shackles were released on his team.
This isn’t looking for an argument and it’s certainly not an attempt to attack Manchester United, it’s more of an outlook on how the game has moved on and other clubs have adapted better by picking more attack minded managers. Look at Bournemouth and Wolves for confirmation of what you can achieve if you have a go. Leicester just went for it a few years ago and won the league with that style. Even Burnley last season were left to just play and they had an excellent season, this season they’ve gone back to more negative football and it’s killing them. You could argue we’re back to a time where Keegan football would be successful.
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