The Official Manchester United Thread [Vol 6]

[ORD]

Imagine if Liverpool won the Europa but finished below us in the PL. We would say "The league doesnt lie. Enjoy your loser cup".

[uk66fastback]

ORD said:

My point is that Europa League isn't a real competition. You have to fail in another competition in order to qualify for it!

The Champions League is a fraud then, as more teams than the actual champions make it into it every year. Is that also a cup for losers - cos the majority are, including yourselves (in your view) if you make it. The number of actual champions are outnumbered by the also rans.

I am sure not every team that has won it have been their country's League winners the year before, so technically losers becoming Champs League winners.

[ORD]

uk66fastback said:

The Champions League is a fraud then, as more teams than the actual champions make it into it every year. Is that also a cup for losers - cos the majority are, including yourselves (in your view) if you make it. The number of actual champions are outnumbered by the also rans.

I am sure not every team that has won it have been their country's League winners the year before, so technically losers becoming Champs League winners.

Kinda show show silly it is to call a team that finishes second in a very tough league a loser, doesnt it?

Big difference is that the CL also contains winners. You have to beat winners to win it. Contrast the Europa League.

[chrisb92]

ORD said:

Kinda show show silly it is to call a team that finishes second in a very tough league a loser, doesnt it?

Big difference is that the CL also contains winners. You have to beat winners to win it. Contrast the Europa League.

You are talking such nonsense. It doesn't matter if you finish 2nd in the SPL or 2nd in the supposed 'best league in the world', you've still come second and NOT won the league. What's all this crap about beating winners? You win the league by beating all the other losers!!

If spurs finish 2nd and we finish 5th but win Europa league plus league cup, then I'd say we have had a much better season. Both in next season CL, but we have 2 extra trophies.

[ORD]

chrisb92 said:

You are talking such nonsense. It doesn't matter if you finish 2nd in the SPL or 2nd in the supposed 'best league in the world', you've still come second and NOT won the league. What's all this crap about beating winners? You win the league by beating all the other losers!!

If spurs finish 2nd and we finish 5th but win Europa league plus league cup, then I'd say we have had a much better season. Both in next season CL, but we have 2 extra trophies.

I give up. I am not saying that finishing 4th is a winning anything, but it is harder than winning the E League. We may well prove that point this season.

[selym]

ORD said:

Imagine if Liverpool won the Europa but finished below us in the PL. We would say "The league doesnt lie. Enjoy your loser cup".

....and that would be bitterness. You need to embrace this losers cup, as it is the only chance for silverware and getting into the Champions League which is getting further and further away.....

[anniesdad]

TEKNOPUG said:

Not when you're LVG!

I imagine if United had finished second and not won the FA Cup, he'd still be in a job...

IMHO he wouldn't. Mourinho was available, LVG himself suggested 3 years was all he was going to do, United needed to make a decision, a decision made easier by the fact we failed to qualify for the ECL.

[Alpinestars]

ORD said:

Kinda show show silly it is to call a team that finishes second in a very tough league a loser, doesnt it?

Big difference is that the CL also contains winners. You have to beat winners to win it. Contrast the Europa League.

Wrong on both counts. You don't HAVE to beat winners to win the CL, and equally, you may have to beat winners in the EL to win it.

[anniesdad]

ORD said:

My point is that Europa League isn't a real competition. You have to fail in another competition in order to qualify for it!

It is a competition for losers, and you don't become a winner by beating other losers.

Surely any decent PL team would win the Europa if they (a) were bad enough to qualify for it and (b) were desperate enough to play their first team in it? Not Liverpool, maybe...

I will be pleased if we win the cup, because a trophy is always good for the players and for maintaining a sense of progress. But it really doesn't give us any bragging rights. If Liverpool and City finish above us in the PL, we will have to show some humility, rather than banging on about a cup for losers.

Spurs dropped into it and immediately dropped out of it. I believe it's harder to win the EL than you believe it is. There's a lot of football to play to actually win it.

I agree that it doesn't give us bragging rights, only by winning the PL do we get that.

I would have no issue with Mourinho saving players for the EL now. However he's said he won't do that and we will fight on to get top 4. The only game mooted as being a rest game being the Crystal Palace game. Sensible under the circumstances. But you just now the pelters he's going to get if he does that. Hopefully CP will be safe from relegation by then.

[LocoCoco]

ORD said:

Kinda show show silly it is to call a team that finishes second in a very tough league a loser, doesnt it?

Big difference is that the CL also contains winners. You have to beat winners to win it. Contrast the Europa League.

Europa league does contains winners though.........

FA cup winner gets Europa league place, league cup winner gets 3rd round Europa league qualification place. Those two teams are more "winners" than the 2nd-4th place finishers in the premier league.

[Zoon]

selym said:

....and that would be bitterness. You need to embrace this losers cup, as it is the only chance for silverware and getting into the Champions League which is getting further and further away.....

Don't forget United have already won two trophies this year to Liverpool's 0.

[anniesdad]

uk66fastback said:

The Champions League is a fraud then, as more teams than the actual champions make it into it every year. Is that also a cup for losers - cos the majority are, including yourselves (in your view) if you make it. The number of actual champions are outnumbered by the also rans.

I am sure not every team that has won it have been their country's League winners the year before, so technically losers becoming Champs League winners.

Something I've argued for years. The title is a misnomer...champions of what? 3rd place?

[ORD]

anniesdad said:

ORD said:

My point is that Europa League isn't a real competition. You have to fail in another competition in order to qualify for it!

It is a competition for losers, and you don't become a winner by beating other losers.

Surely any decent PL team would win the Europa if they (a) were bad enough to qualify for it and (b) were desperate enough to play their first team in it? Not Liverpool, maybe...

I will be pleased if we win the cup, because a trophy is always good for the players and for maintaining a sense of progress. But it really doesn't give us any bragging rights. If Liverpool and City finish above us in the PL, we will have to show some humility, rather than banging on about a cup for losers.

Spurs dropped into it and immediately dropped out of it. I believe it's harder to win the EL than you believe it is. There's a lot of football to play to actually win it.

I agree that it doesn't give us bragging rights, only by winning the PL do we get that.

I would have no issue with Mourinho saving players for the EL now. However he's said he won't do that and we will fight on to get top 4. The only game mooted as being a rest game being the Crystal Palace game. Sensible under the circumstances. But you just now the pelters he's going to get if he does that. Hopefully CP will be safe from relegation by then.

Surely that is sensible - cups are risky. We could very easily lose on Thursday.

If we dont beat Arsenal this weekend, though, it's probably game over for the league.

Liverpool should win all their remaining games, and so we are relying on City to do us a favour. We definitely need to win all our remaining games.

[jammy-git]

ORD said:

Liverpool should win all their remaining games, and so we are relying on City to do us a favour. We definitely need to win all our remaining games.

After the last two weeks of results I don't think anyone can rely on Utd, Arsenal, City or Liverpool to actually win "should win" games.

[ORD]

jammy-git said:

ORD said:

Liverpool should win all their remaining games, and so we are relying on City to do us a favour. We definitely need to win all our remaining games.

After the last two weeks of results I don't think anyone can rely on Utd, Arsenal, City or Liverpool to actually win "should win" games.

I am not so sure. Now that there are so few games are left, and the others can concentrate on the league, I expect them to sharpen up a bit.

[Alpinestars]

ORD said:

Surely that is sensible - cups are risky. We could very easily lose on Thursday.

If we dont beat Arsenal this weekend, though, it's probably game over for the league.

Liverpool should win all their remaining games, and so we are relying on City to do us a favour. We definitely need to win all our remaining games.

In many ways the league has and will be a knock our for us too. If we have beaten City, it would be in our hands, we didn't. Had we beaten the number of teams we should have beaten, or even one of them, it would be in our hands. It's not, but currently, only by the narrowest of margins, ie, a single win out of all the games we have drawn. There was a very fine balance a month or so ago that Maureen had to navigate. He gambled on both fronts, hoping to achieve 4th or win the EL. We are still in both races, but neither is assured, and each is as difficult as the other.

[jammy-git]

Arsenal have got games against top 8 teams, so they're likely to drop points. We (LFC) have games against lower league teams so we're liable to drop points. City are just generally inconsistent.

I fully expect 3-6 positions to change every week until the end of the season.

[anniesdad]

ORD said:

I am not so sure. Now that there are so few games are left, and the others can concentrate on the league, I expect them to sharpen up a bit.

Twists and turns.

I'm peeved that after the weekend Top 4 is out of our hands yet again but there's still games to play and points to play for. We're not in great shape but it's time to remain optimistic.

[Alpinestars]

jammy-git said:

Arsenal have got games against top 8 teams, so they're likely to drop points. We (LFC) have games against lower league teams so we're liable to drop points. City are just generally inconsistent.

I fully expect 3-6 positions to change every week until the end of the season.

I'd love to believe that, but I fear that the top 4 will be as the top 4 is now.

[jammy-git]

It'll be interesting in the result you get against Arsenal next weekend. Lose or draw that and a Liverpool + City win and I think you'll more or less give up on the league.