No red, not a yellow, but take a blue!

[johnboy1975]

I thought it would go yellow, blue, red

But Sky showed a pic saying yellow + blue = red (also blue + blue = red....I think). (As does the article, which I have belatedly read)

It's pretty much unworkable, as well as being unneeded. And once VAR gets involved...

Lower league and cups from next season? Or cups first?

bstb3 said:

They'll have a solution to that in a few years... A black and white stripey card for too much pissing about. Whole team gets it. If you get 3 in a game the referee and his assistants get extra biscuits and Liverpool are awarded a penalty the next time you play them.

Edited by johnboy1975 on Friday 9th February 16:16

[coldel]

I think the FA moved to clarify that this is at the very start of the process. Refs at grassroots trying this out have fed back it was a very positive experience and improved behaviour in games.

The rules seem pretty simple to me, a blue is the same as a yellow but comes with a 10 minute sin bin. So if you get a yellow after a blue its the same as getting two yellows.

Whats bad about it is that it has come to this, that players cannot control themselves, that they behave like children when participants of every other sport seem much more capable of self control yet still display the same amount of emotion and desire. Its a sticky plaster for a problem for sure, but it would be completely unnecessary if plays and staff were not such self entitled tts.

[wazztie16]

Jefferson Steelflex said:

Sin bins work quite well, although The FA stats on the reduction in dissent are misleading as a lot of referees just stopped using C2 caution code (Dissent) and just put it down as Aggressive Attitude which comes under Unsporting Behaviour and doesn't attract a sin bin. So the player still gets a yellow card but stays on the pitch.

The FA were clear this season that dissent had to be acted on more robustly, and I know from my own experience and that of peers that C2 cautions are far far higher than they were previously. Clubs also receive larger fines for dissent cautions, so it's hitting them in the pocket. The general view is that behaviour has improved.

This blue card idea is clearly nonsense, but I'd imagine it won't be coming to the professional game any time soon.

I was under the impression there are no fines for dissent cautions that utilise the sin bin (so step 5 and below in men's football, for example).

Step 4 and above still uses dissent cautions but players aren't sent to the bin.

[ajap1979]

Time4another said:

Dissent - Book them. More Dissent - Book them again. They're trying to answer a problem that they already have the tools for.

Football refs could do a lot to go and learn from rugby refs. None of the dramatics are tolerated. Should only be speaking to the team captain and whoever has been fouled or commited the foul. No players running the full length of the pitch to give the ref an ear full.

The more football gets like rugby, the less I want to watch it.

As far as I can see, and I watch a lot of football, the dissent issue is being dealt with pretty well, with seemingly more players being booked for it this season than ever before. Perhaps I’m alone, but I like passion. I don’t want players reduced to analogous drones with no attitude. They’re trying to “perfect” it to the point where it’ll simply be boring to watch.

[JurassicGTS]

coldel said:

So are golf players, rugby players, [insert any other sport here] players - but we do not see anywhere near the level of personal abuse directed at officials in those sports. Funny enough if they do on the rare occasion, bang, off they go.

Being 'emotional' is and never has been an excuse to abuse referees. Its vile and its got well out of hand, even seeing the staff joining in on the act on the touchlines.

Referees would have such an easier job of it if they were not having to try and second guess whether a player is fouled or if they are simulating/cheating/diving. Given all the awful behaviour that goes on during a game refereeing is not an easy thing, they get more decisions right than wrong, but again that is no excuse for vile abuse even if they get it wrong.

[Donbot]

Cynical fouls against players on a break should just be a straight red. Happens almost every game with even the commentators praising the cheating.

Taking a yellow for the team shouldn't be in the game.

[Frimley111R]

ajap1979 said:

The more football gets like rugby, the less I want to watch it.

As far as I can see, and I watch a lot of football, the dissent issue is being dealt with pretty well, with seemingly more players being booked for it this season than ever before. Perhaps I’m alone, but I like passion. I don’t want players reduced to analogous drones with no attitude. They’re trying to “perfect” it to the point where it’ll simply be boring to watch.

Er what?! I think you're confusing passion with dissent. Players can show passion, as they should, but dissent is not passion, it's unprofessional and very bad behaviour.

Less cheating will make football boring? Have a word with yourself.

[coldel]

ajap1979 said:

The more football gets like rugby, the less I want to watch it.

As far as I can see, and I watch a lot of football, the dissent issue is being dealt with pretty well, with seemingly more players being booked for it this season than ever before. Perhaps I’m alone, but I like passion. I don’t want players reduced to analogous drones with no attitude. They’re trying to “perfect” it to the point where it’ll simply be boring to watch.

Go watch a rugby game up close and live, there is as much passion there as there is in football. The only difference is the lack of respect shown by players to officials in football vs rugby or in fact any other sport. Dissent isnt being dealt with at all, because literally every decision is met with dissent and abuse by players that are so self entitled its beyond belief.
.

[NuckyThompson]

Klopp whinging today saying if blue cards were in action it would have been carange,

That’s exactly the point! If your grown men earning hundreds of thousands a week card show respect to another human being during a game when other grown men playing a more brutal game called rugby can show the upmost respect to another human being and say yes sir no sir etc, then maybe you’re the problem and not the rules.

For Christ sake you’re paid millions and on tv every day of the week, set an example to young children, let them see that acting like a petulant idiot has consequences and f-Ing and blinding to a person of authority may well be wrong. Grow up, man up and behave.

It won’t make football less entertaining it will mean they actually get on with playing football. If we want to see play acting and sweating we’ll watch a Samuel l Jackson movie mate

[Mr Penguin]

Deliberately fouling should be a straight red card
Diving should be a straight red card
Screaming at the referee should be a straight red card + ten match ban

There is no excuse for any of the above and blue cards just make it more complicated

[coldel]

NuckyThompson said:

Klopp whinging today saying if blue cards were in action it would have been carange,

That’s exactly the point! If your grown men earning hundreds of thousands a week card show respect to another human being during a game when other grown men playing a more brutal game called rugby can show the upmost respect to another human being and say yes sir no sir etc, then maybe you’re the problem and not the rules.

For Christ sake you’re paid millions and on tv every day of the week, set an example to young children, let them see that acting like a petulant idiot has consequences and f-Ing and blinding to a person of authority may well be wrong. Grow up, man up and behave.

It won’t make football less entertaining it will mean they actually get on with playing football. If we want to see play acting and sweating we’ll watch a Samuel l Jackson movie mate

Yep. They are all in the same mystical bubble together. If managers do not see the issue i.e. players are abusive, then there is no change of players changing if the boss gives it the green light.

Maybe if fans all stood up at the ground together and said in unison 'stop abusing officials' and directed it at players and managers then they might have a light bulb moment that gets through to their thick skulls that its not ok.

[Frimley111R]

They are so blinkered that they can't see the problem football has. They accept tactical fouls, abusing officials, blatant cheating, eg. rolling around like they have been shot etc as simply part of the game or simply the passion of the players.

Klopp today is a glowering example of this but, of course far from the only one. I wonder if any will say its a good thing...

Edited by Frimley111R on Sunday 11th February 19:47

[GloverMart]

wazztie16 said:

In the early stages of sin bins coming into football, I sin binned a goalkeeper in the county church league for dissent by action (sarcastic clapping after I'd awarded a penalty against him).

Cue pandemonium with players claiming you can't sin bin a goalkeeper, the team not having a decent reserve keeper and the stand in goalkeeper having to start off with the penalty kick.

I love sin bins, on Sunday morning I had 2 in the bin in the second half for the same team.

Had warned both managers before the game regarding the FA's stance this season on dissent/delaying the restart of play/technical area (and general participant behaviour).

Mentioned the first 2 points to the captains at coin toss as well.

First half, 2 quiet words to players for the away team and bringing the captain in a little before half time, all using the stepped approach.

69 mins, first bin for the team.

Captain slamming the ball down at my decision (something minor like a throw in or free kick in halfway), because it was public/obvious I had to take action.

He comes back on, 30 seconds later, second player from the team stands up and screams at me after not getting a foul (again, around halfway), couldn't ignore.

I really don't get what goes through the head of some teams/players.

So I'm all for sin bins.

Glad to see you are an official that uses the correct approach to dissent.

I work for my County FA and see both sides of the coin. Quite surprising how much some officials let go.

Edited by GloverMart on Sunday 11th February 12:22

[Bluevanman]

GloverMart said:

Glad to see you are an official that uses the correct approach to dissent.

I work for my County FA and see both sides of the coin. Quite surprising how muich some officials let go.

Clamp down on players getting in your face by all means but I don't see sarcastic clapping to be anything to get upset by nor slamming the ball down, certainly nothing worthy of a card.....this is where you tell me it's in the rules and you have no choice ?

[GloverMart]

Bluevanman said:

GloverMart said:

Glad to see you are an official that uses the correct approach to dissent.

I work for my County FA and see both sides of the coin. Quite surprising how muich some officials let go.

Clamp down on players getting in your face by all means but I don't see sarcastic clapping to be anything to get upset by nor slamming the ball down, certainly nothing worthy of a card.....this is where you tell me it's in the rules and you have no choice ?

It's in the......

Sarcastic clapping/throwing ball down are both examples of C2, dissent by word or action. Sin bin offence at grassroots level, yellow card higher up.

I have no problem with match officials using it as a sanction but needs to be used in a consistent fashion.

[Mazinbrum]

Frimley111R said:

ajap1979 said:

The more football gets like rugby, the less I want to watch it.

As far as I can see, and I watch a lot of football, the dissent issue is being dealt with pretty well, with seemingly more players being booked for it this season than ever before. Perhaps I’m alone, but I like passion. I don’t want players reduced to analogous drones with no attitude. They’re trying to “perfect” it to the point where it’ll simply be boring to watch.

Er what?! I think you're confusing passion with dissent. Players can show passion, as they should, but dissent is not passion, it's unprofessional and very bad behaviour.

Less cheating will make football boring? Have a word with yourself.

Rugby players are generally better educated and more intelligent than the average football player and therefore more likely to be in control of their emotions.

[wazztie16]

GloverMart said:

Bluevanman said:

GloverMart said:

Glad to see you are an official that uses the correct approach to dissent.

I work for my County FA and see both sides of the coin. Quite surprising how muich some officials let go.

Clamp down on players getting in your face by all means but I don't see sarcastic clapping to be anything to get upset by nor slamming the ball down, certainly nothing worthy of a card.....this is where you tell me it's in the rules and you have no choice ?

It's in the......

Sarcastic clapping/throwing ball down are both examples of C2, dissent by word or action. Sin bin offence at grassroots level, yellow card higher up.

I have no problem with match officials using it as a sanction but needs to be used in a consistent fashion.

Believe it or not, as a referee, it's not actually about 'me'.

I'm old enough to not be bothered by dissent.

I punish it because I want to progress up the 'ladder', and I feel for the younger referees (I'm talking 16-20 years old) starting out who may do extra games on Sunday mornings at open age for promotion or extra money, and they shouldn't have to deal with dissent that will potentially force them out of the game.

It's not for me, it's for them.

[coldel]

In what other sport would slow clapping officials decisions be deemed ok and not worthy of punishment? I struggle again to see why football thinks it’s a special case?

I think this is the fundamental problem, if a player does this, it shows no respect for officials and we won’t see any change in their vile behaviour.

[johnboy1975]

coldel said:

In what other sport would slow clapping officials decisions be deemed ok and not worthy of punishment? I struggle again to see why football thinks it’s a special case?

I think this is the fundamental problem, if a player does this, it shows no respect for officials and we won’t see any change in their vile behaviour.

I get it (I really do) but to me there's a world of difference between being pissed off at a good decision gone against you, and being pissed off at a terrible decision gone against you.

Dyche's 3 yellows were all for valid complaints (IMO, and Everton bias possibly showing). I think one was for the no yellow for the obvious 2nd yellow for Konate when he hauled one of our players down in the Derby? Postscript - Much frothing from Klopp when Konate was correctly sent off for two yellows against Arsenal- the 2nd yellow was nigh on identical...

Then you have Klopp doing summersaults along the touchline and no card, but others step outside the technical area and get booked. Doubt the unbiased commentary team will call this out?

Asking for consistency is a fools errard, but I feel we have to try. At PL level at least with retrospective yellows / yellows removed on appeal. Not entirely sure you can appeal a yellow currently?

[coldel]

johnboy1975 said:

[bold text]I get it (I really do) but to me there's a world of difference between being pissed off at a good decision gone against you, and being pissed off at a terrible decision gone against you[/bold text]

Dyche's 3 yellows were all for valid complaints (IMO, and Everton bias possibly showing). I think one was for the no yellow for the obvious 2nd yellow for Konate when he hauled one of our players down in the Derby? Postscript - Much frothing from Klopp when Konate was correctly sent off for two yellows against Arsenal- the 2nd yellow was nigh on identical...

Then you have Klopp doing summersaults along the touchline and no card, but others step outside the technical area and get booked. Doubt the unbiased commentary team will call this out?

Asking for consistency is a fools errard, but I feel we have to try. At PL level at least with retrospective yellows / yellows removed on appeal. Not entirely sure you can appeal a yellow currently?

But how would a player know at the time if the decision was right or not? How many players dont actually know a lot of the more intricate rules. How many complain about being called offside when they are clearly offside? Even if when a decision goes against you and you saw the ball come off their player for a throw in, its just a bloody throw in yet they go into histrionics like the ref just blew a whistle and relegated them.

As for consistency, the refs apply the law as and when they see it. They are also instructed by the association to take into account context, and other factors, it is subjective. But thats how players and managers want it, that they want refs to take the situation into account - only they dont like it when it doesn't work in their favour.

One thing I do like is when you have an ex-pro ref involved, you get the pundits going 'oh thats a yellow all day stonewall yellow' then the ref explains the actual rules which then show why the ref didnt give one and then the pundit says 'well ok yea erm well in my book thats a yellow' - which is the main problem, players and managers dont know all the rules.