The Official England Thread-The Team We All Support [Vol 2]

[MrBarry123]

As has already been said on here, I didn't realistically expect us to win the tournament however it would have been nice to ultimately have been outplayed by a much superior opposition (Germany, Italy etc.) and go out that way - rather than the embarrassment that was last night.

I agree in that there's something deeply wrong in English football however until the organisation as a whole addresses this, it won't be getting any better.

[The Hypno-Toad]

Cobnapint said:

Some very good points there, in particular No.10. Just when were those adverts shot...before the squad was announced..?

Certainly at the last World Cup, there was promotional material up in M&Ss men's tailoring department before any announcement was made on the squad.

[HRL]

counterofbeans said:

The mrs and I were in stitches all the way through the game from the time of the Iceland equaliser, honestly it was so funny watching these clueless oiks running around and Hodgson no idea what to do next.

Exactly the same here. She said this isn't going to end well the moment they scored their first goal.

Not sure I agree that the players didn't care, it was the manager that told them how and where to play.

You never know, the next England manager might try to create a tournament winning team rather than just a rotation of decent players with zero cohesion.

[aeropilot]

HRL said:

You never know, the next England manager might try to create a tournament winning team rather than just a rotation of decent players with zero cohesion.

We do know, as the FA won't appoint someone with that ability.

[counterofbeans]

aeropilot said:

HRL said:

You never know, the next England manager might try to create a tournament winning team rather than just a rotation of decent players with zero cohesion.

We do know, as the FA won't appoint someone with that ability.

Well they did appoint Fabio Capello, easily one of the best club managers in the history of the game.

Even he couldn't do anything with the dross we call English footballers.

[throt]

MrBarry123 said:

I agree in that there's something deeply wrong in English football however until the organisation as a whole addresses this, it won't be getting any better.

Its the mental approach before the game and during it. What happened after the 2nd goal showed that , Barry. Look how relaxed Buffon and the Neuer look compared to Hart, Hart gets too pumped up and those other 2 would have that 2nd goal.

[drivin_me_nuts]

Well, to lift the mood of despondancy, at least the England fans who travel next time (assuming any will bother next time), can travel with the total confidence that, no matter what, it really, truly, absolutely, cannot be worse than it is now.

Possibly.

[The Don of Croy]

Just to add that the level of punditry is almost jokingly bad too - Hoddle can waffle and spout cliched crap with the best of them, Crouch and Ian Wright seem to offer even less...please can we get back some intelligent and thoughtful observations from people who know the game.

I don't care if they've never pulled on an England shirt. Or any shirt. I just want someone who knows more than me to elucidate what's going on. Mark Lawrenson I like. Brian Moore ditto.

Which means that by the time the next jamboree comes round I'll be settling down to hear what Ian Hart or record-goalscorer Rooney makes of it all...

[pc.iow]

Would it be worth setting up a petition, and boycotting the England games to try and get a manager with passion like Redknapp, or even my mate Drew who i used to help run a local youth team with?
Even with some of the fastest boys around we never played the long ball unless it was do or die in the last few minutes of a game.

[tedman]

The changes need to come from up above, the FA.

They seem content to just make their money and sponsorship deals at the expense of the fans and actually achieving anything.

[antspants]

The Don of Croy said:

I just want someone who knows more than me to elucidate what's going on.

I think part of the problem last night was that most armchair pundits (including me) had highlighted prior to the game what we thought the problems were in team selection and setup, those common opinions were then unsurprisingly confirmed during the game.

However even knowing that, I sat for most of the 2nd half slack-jawed (when I wasn't swearing) just thinking WTF!

And I think most pundits were probably similarly baffled at how a team of players, who in the main have performed well during the season for their clubs, couldn't even manage the most basic of football skills that 6 and 7 year olds can manage.

Here Harry just knock this ball over the 1st player into that crowded area in the box, oh you've missed them all again. Here Harry have go at a free kick, aim for that rectangular thing this time not the 4th official. He wasn't the only one, but ffs at what point does somebody snatch the ball off him, and say no just NO!!

[XM5ER]

There is one English manager that could actually put a team together that could win, Mark Warburton. He took Brentford from nowhere to knocking on the door of the Premiership (until his boss kicked his legs out from under him half way through the season Pellegrini style. He has just taken Rangers into the Scottish Prem and will probably take them to second place this year (I cant see him going all the way but who knows)?

A care taker until the end of next season them get Mark in.

[Nom de ploom]

I've been pretty fair in my comments as i have a strong desire to see the national team do well.

Peak at the right time, lots of effort and endeavour just a bit unlucky with chances etc....rooney playing well in a position I have said for years he should be playing, but I can't match what I saw last night with any words of support from me.

there we were a few days ago, belittling Ronaldo, hazard etc...they ARE peaking at the right time. we peaked in the first half against Russia.

I have a bit of sympathy for Roy - professional footballers should be able to cross a ball, defend a throw-in, make a pass. Roy wasn't defensing that throw in. That said, the game plan became flawed fatally when they realised Iceland wern't just going to sit back and defend. That should have signalled a shift in our play to quicker ball, vardy on earlier and a revised gmae plan.

That definitely didn't happen.

Kane looked lost and his tournament has been poor.

Alli lots of promise but not much delivery.

Walker at fault for the first goal, made one run in the first two minutes then largely anonymous.

Sturridge - out of position

Wilshere - just plain awful.

Rooney, quality at times but faded and had a very poor second half - memories of Lineker being subbed by Taylor...Doubt if rooney will play again for England. lacked leadership.

Hart - will stay but had a less than effective tournament.

rose - suspect defensively, not international class. Clyne and bertrand both better imho.

Cahill / Smalling - not a dream team combo. hardly tested all tournament then woeful defending for the goal.

Best player...probably Dier and should feel hard done to for being subbed for Wilshere.

Verdict.

Build the team and a system around the young players now.

Smalling has time but bring in Stones. Keep Sturridge, Rashford, Dier, Clyne, Bertrand, Hart, Alli, Kane (he can't play as bad again surely?), lallana and possibly Barkley & Henderson. look to the lower leagues for emerging talent like Ince and Hughes (derby)...

if anythng this has shown up a manager for lack of tactical nouse and the lack of quality english players in the premier league.


needs a ground up reformation

[Mothersruin]

throt said:

Thankyou4calling said:

I wonder how many people will see this as a line in the sand as far as supporting the England International team?

I'd consider myself to be a keen follower, I was at Wembley for a Euro 96 game, I went to Germany in 2006, hunted out a bar in Canada to watch in 2014, I went to the last Euro warm up match at Wembley against Portugal.

On this thread I've been behind England.

But I've thrown the towel in.

Last night was embarrassing. I really thought these were good (not great) players who were a bit of luck away from putting in a decent performance.

But there was some basic stuff done that shocked me. The inclusion of Sterling, conceding so soon after scoring, putting on Rashford with 4 minutes to go, playing Hart when he has looked like an accident waiting to happen, not settling on a line up 3 months ago and sticking with it.

It just looked obvious to all except Roy.

I'm not saying these things mean we would win but at least you could say you were doing basic stuff.

I'm at a loss to explain but something is deeply wrong and i'm done with it. I can't be bothered, can't raise any enthusiasm and yet I love football and love my country but Thankyou4calling has left the building and won't return.

It was almost as if the manager (and players) were saying they know better.

The support for England is phenomenal but I don't see 90,000 turning up any longer for friendlies, I'll be spending my money on other things.

No more for me.

I agree,

I looked at the clock during the game and it read 68 mins 18 secs (I remembered exactly) to which I nearly got up and just walked away to have a early shower. There was no goal coming, you could see invention had left. It wasn't a poor performance, it was a sad one.

Funny that, that's pretty much the same time I started looking for some light bulbs as the wife had mentioned one had blown in the dining room. I was done by then.

I've always disliked RH as a manager. He's magnolia bathroom paint with st stains. I didnt bother with Brazil and I watched a couple of the last friendlies. Didn't watch the qualifiers. I gave it a go this time round but he still failed to live up to my extremely low hopes. Drew against Russia and Slovakia, was lucky to beat Wales and lost to Iceland. What a shower. What a mess. Why do we bother, who really are the dumb ones here?

I'm done now. He and the players won't care. So neither will I.

Oh, and I asked the wife to give me a shout when RH did an interview as I was in the kitchen deboning a leg of lamb by then (I couldn't find any lightbulbs) and I rush back to see the reading a statement that sounded like he'd written on the bus on the way to the game with zero hint of an apology.

What a wker.

Edited by Mothersruin on Tuesday 28th June 11:19

[Challo]

After the shocking performances in South Africa, and Brazil we just never learn. How many England teams have we picked a group of players and then tried to fit them into a formation and system.

Before the Euro's we decided to play a diamond in midfield, and therefore pick the squad accordingly. So why after the first game do we play a 4-3-3 and then have to stick a striker out wide because we haven't got any wide men?? The started before the Euro's in terms of the squad chosen.

England need to decide on a formation and stick to it, and they choose players that will be able to perform to their best in those positions. We have too many square pegs in round holes. Last night was a prime example of not being able to change things if its not working. Sterling came off and Vardy came on to play in a position that he doesn't play for his club and went missing straight away. Bizarre. It just reminds me off the days of Paul Scholes playing wide left to accommodate Gerard and Lampard.

No formation, plan, strategy from the Manager and glad he has gone. F**king Useless

[antspants]

Mothersruin said:

and I rush back to see the reading a statement that sounded like he'd written on the bus on the way to the game with zero hint of an apology.

Exactly, clearly a statement written prior to the game and already discussed with Neville and Lewington what they'd do should they lose. I'm all for being prepared, but that hardly smacks of preparing confidently for a game does it.

I'd have had far more respect for the bloke if he'd come out and said "I knew I'd have to resign if we lost, but I never came into the game preparing for that and therefore I don't have a prepared statement. We performed badly, and I have to take responsibility for that, as do the players, and I will be resigning with immediate effect. I will provide a more formal statement later, but for now does anybody have any questions?"

Not that prepared statement that failed to admit any shortcomings, and a refusal to answer any questions. Rubbish, and just confirms everybody's opinions!

[The Hypno-Toad]

[redacted]

[aeropilot]

XM5ER said:

There is one English manager that could actually put a team together that could win, Mark Warburton. He took Brentford from nowhere to knocking on the door of the Premiership (until his boss kicked his legs out from under him half way through the season Pellegrini style. He has just taken Rangers into the Scottish Prem and will probably take them to second place this year (I cant see him going all the way but who knows)?

A care taker until the end of next season them get Mark in.

Funny someone should say that, as I was thinking the very same while driving into work this morning......

[m3sye]

Cant see him getting the job after his comments on disabled people tbh

[Speed 3]

Challo said:

After the shocking performances in South Africa, and Brazil we just never learn. How many England teams have we picked a group of players and then tried to fit them into a formation and system.

Before the Euro's we decided to play a diamond in midfield, and therefore pick the squad accordingly. So why after the first game do we play a 4-3-3 and then have to stick a striker out wide because we haven't got any wide men?? The started before the Euro's in terms of the squad chosen.

England need to decide on a formation and stick to it, and they choose players that will be able to perform to their best in those positions. We have too many square pegs in round holes. Last night was a prime example of not being able to change things if its not working. Sterling came off and Vardy came on to play in a position that he doesn't play for his club and went missing straight away. Bizarre. It just reminds me off the days of Paul Scholes playing wide left to accommodate Gerard and Lampard.

No formation, plan, strategy from the Manager and glad he has gone. F**king Useless

Herein lies the problem. If you set a formation and fixed tactics per occasion, unless you have exactly the right players for that system, you'll end up with out of position pegs. The key difference with league football is they can sign exactly the right type of player, irrespective of nationality, and fit them into the system (as Klopp will be doing this Summer and Mourinho has done forever). We don't have the flexibility of skill to play in any position, Milner's as close as it gets and he ain't no Dutch clone.

The alternative is you look at the crop of players available to you for the next 3 years (using the U-21 system properly), then figure out a system which that group of players will be most comfortable in with double coverage in every position. You then lock them away for 2 years and drill seargent them to within an inch of their lives until they're robotic in the individual and team basics. You then allow what flair you are going to and most importantly ignore the calls for a new face after every game whch the English media love to stir up. Wales and Iceland have been great because they've got so much less choice and have to find a system that suits the fixed pool of players they can call on.

I'm most impressed by Italy's ability to play disciplined team structures as well as flair when you normally see very emotional, sometimes erractic, behaviours in other walks of Italian life.

Mark Warburton is a good shout BTW.