Will VAR Change Football for the Better?
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
Origi was clearly kicked from behind. I'm assuming that's still a foul?
Was he kicked hard enough to give a foul. Players come together all the time, it's still a contact sport. Not every kick is a foul. I thought it was a foul, but not giving it isn't a clear and obvious error. I heard Stuart Pearce say this morning it wasn't a foul in his book. So a different opinion from someone who knows a bit about football. ChevyChase77 said:
There wasn't enough contact for him to go flying over like that.
That may be true, but it can still be a foul, even if the victim exaggerates the effect. You can be fouled...and then dive/roll around in faux agony. You were still fouled. It can be a foul if the player stays on his feet. TwigtheWonderkid said:
ChevyChase77 said:
There wasn't enough contact for him to go flying over like that.
That may be true, but it can still be a foul, even if the victim exaggerates the effect. You can be fouled...and then dive/roll around in faux agony. You were still fouled. It can be a foul if the player stays on his feet. ChevyChase77 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
ChevyChase77 said:
There wasn't enough contact for him to go flying over like that.
That may be true, but it can still be a foul, even if the victim exaggerates the effect. You can be fouled...and then dive/roll around in faux agony. You were still fouled. It can be a foul if the player stays on his feet. But the fact that Origi might have over exaggerated the contact isn't the deciding factor. Or a factor at all. So to say "There wasn't enough contact for him to go flying over like that" isn't relevant to whether it was a foul or not.
Bit of a mess this weekend, I've no real problems with VAR from the Liverpool game, Atkinson should've given the foul but that's not VAR's fault.
Consistency is the problem, Ali being allowed, the Burnley goal being disallowed was nonsense. Watford's pen was probably the clearest I've seen in a while.
We'll do it all again next weekend too.
Would a kick on a player (like what happened to Origi) in the box, be given as a pen next weekend in a different game with a different ref? Maybe, Probably.
Or if a defender handled the ball like Mane did, would that be a pen? Who knows?
What we DO know is VAR won't overturn it if the ref said it was, or wasn't a pen. And I think that's the main issue.
That and the fact we can't celebrate anymore, which anyone who's been to a game and jumped up and down and hugged a complete stranger knows, is the best bit
Consistency is the problem, Ali being allowed, the Burnley goal being disallowed was nonsense. Watford's pen was probably the clearest I've seen in a while.
We'll do it all again next weekend too.
Would a kick on a player (like what happened to Origi) in the box, be given as a pen next weekend in a different game with a different ref? Maybe, Probably.
Or if a defender handled the ball like Mane did, would that be a pen? Who knows?
What we DO know is VAR won't overturn it if the ref said it was, or wasn't a pen. And I think that's the main issue.
That and the fact we can't celebrate anymore, which anyone who's been to a game and jumped up and down and hugged a complete stranger knows, is the best bit
wjb said:
the Burnley goal being disallowed was nonsense.
Didn't understand that. Ref gives the goal, Evans says he's fouled, goes to var, I thought it wasn't a foul, others may disagree, but var overruled the ref and disallowed the goal. Even if the var thought it was a foul, no way was that a clear and obvious error, as it's highly debatable. So under the rules, the ref's decision should have stood, even if var thinks it's wrong. wjb said:
Or if a defender handled the ball like Mane did, would that be a pen? Who knows?
As of this season, two different laws. An attacker cannot score a goal having handled it, intentional or not. But a defender can handle a ball unintentionally and the ref can choose not to give a pen. wjb said:
Bit of a mess this weekend, I've no real problems with VAR from the Liverpool game, Atkinson should've given the foul but that's not VAR's fault.
What we DO know is VAR won't overturn it if the ref said it was, or wasn't a pen. And I think that's the main issue.
:
Yep. Which is what I've been saying the last few pages. They've been clearly wrong in some incidences, Mane and Deulofeu and the shirt pull last night for example. But VAR will simply not overrule it which is very odd. It's not undermining the referee, it's just the VAR team have a better view of some things.What we DO know is VAR won't overturn it if the ref said it was, or wasn't a pen. And I think that's the main issue.
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Driver101 said:
He could have intentionally missed or rolled it to the goalie. I've seen that happen before for ludicrous penalties. RichB said:
He could have intentionally missed or rolled it to the goalie. I've seen that happen before for ludicrous penalties.
Why? It was a penalty. A foul, in the box, by a player from the defending team. Lots of penalties are conceded by bad decision making by a player from the defending team when there's no chance of a goal being scored. TwigtheWonderkid said:
RichB said:
He could have intentionally missed or rolled it to the goalie. I've seen that happen before for ludicrous penalties.
Why? It was a penalty. A foul, in the box, by a player from the defending team. Lots of penalties are conceded by bad decision making by a player from the defending team when there's no chance of a goal being scored. RichB said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
RichB said:
He could have intentionally missed or rolled it to the goalie. I've seen that happen before for ludicrous penalties.
Why? It was a penalty. A foul, in the box, by a player from the defending team. Lots of penalties are conceded by bad decision making by a player from the defending team when there's no chance of a goal being scored. TwigtheWonderkid said:
Sure, you're entitled to your view. I was just interested in how you arrived at that view. But it's a free country, you don't have to say.
You know why - because the ball was going out for a goal kick, the sub did nothing to deceive or cheat, his intention was obvious to anyone including the ref. Football is a sport, it's not a matter of life and death, despite what Bill Shankley said, and it would have been the sporting thing to have rolled the ball off the field for a goal kick; where the game should have been before the penalty fiasco. RichB said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Sure, you're entitled to your view. I was just interested in how you arrived at that view. But it's a free country, you don't have to say.
You know why - because the ball was going out for a goal kick, the sub did nothing to deceive or cheat, his intention was obvious to anyone including the ref. Football is a sport, it's not a matter of life and death, despite what Bill Shankley said, and it would have been the sporting thing to have rolled the ball off the field for a goal kick; where the game should have been before the penalty fiasco. Where the ball is going is irrelevant. As was his intention, It's a pen.
Yes it's a sport, and of course it's not life/death and we should behave in a sportsmanlike manner.
But let's be realistic, if it happened to us, and we got a penalty for that and our striker rolled the ball into the keepers arms, or missed intentionally, i'd be fuming.
Many years ago, Chelsea were away at Everton. Everton had an attack, ball ended up with Chelsea keeper. Our defender, Ken Monkou, got into an argument with their attacker. Lots of finger pointing and scowling.. Our keeper cleared the ball, up into their half. Ken Monkou and their attacker still bickering as they are walking out of the area, and Ken Monkou pushes their player. Ball is now up the other end of the field. Lino flags, ref stops play, speaks to lino, and gives Everton a pen. Because there's been a foul, in the box, when the ball was in play. That's the rules.
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