What the **** is wrong with people?
Discussion
C70R said:
egor110 said:
I'm not clutching at straws you said cricket, golf fans never kick off and I've said they do.
No I didn't. Go back and read what I wrote again.egor110 said:
What's your gripe with football fans if you have no interest in the actual game ?
I probably go to more games than the average internet 'fan'. Who says I have "no interest" in football?You very much do at India Pakistan games , they hate each other so much it makes a old firm game seem tame.
C70R said:
That's a terrible set of excuses.
Can you explain why tens of thousands of 'fans' singing racist and sectarian songs at each other is treated differently to someone shouting racist abuse on the streets?
I can, and it's because the clubs and leagues are petrified of upsetting their source of income.
I didn't say it was an excuse, you think the clubs really like the bad publicity that comes with this trouble?Can you explain why tens of thousands of 'fans' singing racist and sectarian songs at each other is treated differently to someone shouting racist abuse on the streets?
I can, and it's because the clubs and leagues are petrified of upsetting their source of income.
I expect things will change before next season and rightly so, stewards are next to useless at matches and I'm hoping the return of better policing will help.
mickk said:
I didn't say it was an excuse, you think the clubs really like the bad publicity that comes with this trouble?
They love the 'rivalry', as do the league and the broadcasters.It's the constant stirring-up by folks who are only interested in marketing and profiting from the game that creates some of this trouble. Many thickos who go to the matches aren't smart enough to realise that their 'rivalries' are mostly marketing manufactured nonsense that keeps the money flowing.
C70R said:
I bet that "vile chanting" was nothing like some of the most commonly-sung songs at football grounds ("My old man said be a Tottenham fan, I said..." etc.), or the disgusting racism and sectarian chanting that's commonplace at derby matches.
It depends if you have different standards for Medway’s finest hollering p**i abuse at stewards just doing their jobs and or the sons of Basildon using terms like p****y to refer to people from the other side of the river. From my point of view, just as oikish as the chanting at football matches.
And, because there are no consequences, it won’t be long before they are emulating the Chelsea t
ts my son saw outside Wembley punching women and children simply for wearing Liverpool shirts a couple of weekends ago. (With the Met police just standing by.)Green1man said:
There’s a simple solution to pitch invasions, one that worked for years, fences, it’s the only way. It’s simple enough to design fences that can be opened in an emergency. So that’s one issue sorted.
Racist chanting…I’ve got to admit I’ve heard very little (hardly any) in the last few years, sure people (of all colours) get booed, but this isn’t racist as such, of course there are individuals or small groups that do do this, and which are usually dealt with.
The most distasteful stuff is the chants about a clubs disasters: Munich Air Crash; Hillsborough; Bradford Fire etc etc.
NO!!! Absolutely no fences. Racist chanting…I’ve got to admit I’ve heard very little (hardly any) in the last few years, sure people (of all colours) get booed, but this isn’t racist as such, of course there are individuals or small groups that do do this, and which are usually dealt with.
The most distasteful stuff is the chants about a clubs disasters: Munich Air Crash; Hillsborough; Bradford Fire etc etc.
I love football but why should I and millions of others have to be caged because of brain dead minority? There are other ways.
Agree about the chanting. It used to happen a lot and other abuse such as throwing bananas at black players. I haven’t heard any for some years tho.
Edited by bad company on Monday 23 May 13:54
C70R said:
I bet that "vile chanting" was nothing like some of the most commonly-sung songs at football grounds ("My old man said be a Tottenham fan, I said..." etc.), or the disgusting racism and sectarian chanting that's commonplace at derby matches.
Yes I agree that in those examples the chanting is abhorrent and shouldn't happen, but it does. What would you do to fix it? Closed door games? Ban every single one of those fans? Most of the games played do not have this level of chanting from the fans, so you need to do something that can be targetted to those games / fans.
Outside of these last few weekends we haven't had pitch invasions, fans have remained in the stands and not gone onto the pitch. The odd or two that do can easily be identified and banned for life from the ground.
Challo said:
C70R said:
I bet that "vile chanting" was nothing like some of the most commonly-sung songs at football grounds ("My old man said be a Tottenham fan, I said..." etc.), or the disgusting racism and sectarian chanting that's commonplace at derby matches.
Yes I agree that in those examples the chanting is abhorrent and shouldn't happen, but it does. What would you do to fix it? Closed door games? Ban every single one of those fans? Most of the games played do not have this level of chanting from the fans, so you need to do something that can be targetted to those games / fans.
Outside of these last few weekends we haven't had pitch invasions, fans have remained in the stands and not gone onto the pitch. The odd or two that do can easily be identified and banned for life from the ground.
Rangers were charged numerous times for racism by UEFA. It ended up with partial stadium closures and Rangers fearful of sanctions including being thrown out of the competition. They didn't take away tickets for a game and put out statements how the behaviour of the fans was harmful to the club.
The chanting was very quickly reduced in European games when they were scared of being booted out and the club made statements against the fans.
In the games in Scotland the same behaviour is getting far worse. The SFA doesn't hand out punishment and Rangers say and do nothing. The problem is ignored and is allowed to grow. There is a good section of Rangers fans that think their own support has gone too far.
Edited by Driver101 on Monday 23 May 15:40
C70R said:
They love the 'rivalry', as do the league and the broadcasters.
It's the constant stirring-up by folks who are only interested in marketing and profiting from the game that creates some of this trouble. Many thickos who go to the matches aren't smart enough to realise that their 'rivalries' are mostly marketing manufactured nonsense that keeps the money flowing.
Seriously fella get a grip, that’s nonsense. Who makes money out of crowd trouble and how do they do so?It's the constant stirring-up by folks who are only interested in marketing and profiting from the game that creates some of this trouble. Many thickos who go to the matches aren't smart enough to realise that their 'rivalries' are mostly marketing manufactured nonsense that keeps the money flowing.
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem at the moment mind, there is and it needs dealing with.
BorkBorkBork said:
We are a violent species, that’s served us well from an evolutionary stand point. I’m not excusing it, I’m just realistic about stamping it out.
I don’t know what the answers are, and I doubt anyone else does. It’s a societal problem, and one that the justice system will never solve.
Why do all the violent ones seem to gravitate towards football?I don’t know what the answers are, and I doubt anyone else does. It’s a societal problem, and one that the justice system will never solve.
I'll tell you why. It's because of the stupid tribalism stuff that clubs and the league ultimately benefit from. It's that same tribal nonsense that's whipped into a frenzy by the clubs', leagues' and broadcasters' marketing teams, because they know they make a load of cash out of it. Just look at the week or so approaching a big derby match.
The crazy thing is that there's tribalism in all sport. Rugby is a great example, as there are loads of 'derbies' that have been played for 100+ years, and the rivalries are established and staunch. Yet, the opposing fans all sit together and then share a beer after the match to congratulate/commiserate.
Two reasons:
1. Football is trapped in a hyper-growth cycle, perpetuated by a tiny minority who make money from the sport, and that means that it lives and dies by the marketing machine whipping thick fans up into a frenzy.
2. Football fans, unlike those in other sports, seem more apathetic towards people who do things that are so frankly disgusting (like singing racist songs about an individual player) that they'd be arrested in public life.
bad company said:
C70R said:
They love the 'rivalry', as do the league and the broadcasters.
It's the constant stirring-up by folks who are only interested in marketing and profiting from the game that creates some of this trouble. Many thickos who go to the matches aren't smart enough to realise that their 'rivalries' are mostly marketing manufactured nonsense that keeps the money flowing.
Seriously fella get a grip, that’s nonsense. Who makes money out of crowd trouble and how do they do so?It's the constant stirring-up by folks who are only interested in marketing and profiting from the game that creates some of this trouble. Many thickos who go to the matches aren't smart enough to realise that their 'rivalries' are mostly marketing manufactured nonsense that keeps the money flowing.
I’m not saying there isn’t a problem at the moment mind, there is and it needs dealing with.
I said that football makes money from rivalries, and fans are whipped up into a storm by the marketing machine. This is what results in it spilling over into violence; but the clubs, leagues and broadcasters prioritise keeping the gravy train trucking onwards above all else.
pavarotti1980 said:
C70R said:
Presumably you've got some data/statistics to back that up?
Dont need to. Watch on TV and you will see the crowd scrapping I've provided a load of statistics, and you disagree because you've watched some stuff on the telly.
Fantastic counterpoint.
bad company said:
I wonder where the lines should be drawn. I watched West Ham v Brighton and heard the WH fans singing ‘we can see you holding hands’. Homophobic, yes but did that cross the line?
Of course it f*cking did.How do you think any LGBT+ fans in the stadium felt?
But the apathy of football fans shines through again. "Oh, it's only a bit of a laugh, isn't it. Next thing you'll be telling us we can't sing about plane crashes. It's PC gone mad, I tell you."
Driver101 said:
Banning the fans works.
Rangers were charged numerous times for racism by UEFA. It ended up with partial stadium closures and Rangers fearful of sanctions including being thrown out of the competition. They didn't take away tickets for a game and put out statements how the behaviour of the fans was harmful to the club.
The chanting was very quickly reduced in European games when they were scared of being booted out and the club made statements against the fans.
In the games in Scotland the same behaviour is getting far worse. The SFA doesn't hand out punishment and Rangers say and do nothing. The problem is ignored and is allowed to grow. There is a good section of Rangers fans that think their own support has gone too far.
A perfect illustration of how to deal with the problem from a dispassionate governing body.Rangers were charged numerous times for racism by UEFA. It ended up with partial stadium closures and Rangers fearful of sanctions including being thrown out of the competition. They didn't take away tickets for a game and put out statements how the behaviour of the fans was harmful to the club.
The chanting was very quickly reduced in European games when they were scared of being booted out and the club made statements against the fans.
In the games in Scotland the same behaviour is getting far worse. The SFA doesn't hand out punishment and Rangers say and do nothing. The problem is ignored and is allowed to grow. There is a good section of Rangers fans that think their own support has gone too far.
Edited by Driver101 on Monday 23 May 15:40
And a perfect illustration of how clubs and leagues are too petrified of the monster they've created to act decisively. Money talks.
C70R said:
Of course it f*cking did.
How do you think any LGBT+ fans in the stadium felt?
But the apathy of football fans shines through again. "Oh, it's only a bit of a laugh, isn't it. Next thing you'll be telling us we can't sing about plane crashes. It's PC gone mad, I tell you."
Bring back the wooden rattle?How do you think any LGBT+ fans in the stadium felt?
But the apathy of football fans shines through again. "Oh, it's only a bit of a laugh, isn't it. Next thing you'll be telling us we can't sing about plane crashes. It's PC gone mad, I tell you."
C70R said:
Why do all the violent ones seem to gravitate towards football?
Two reasons:
1. Football is trapped in a hyper-growth cycle, perpetuated by a tiny minority who make money from the sport, and that means that it lives and dies by the marketing machine whipping thick fans up into a frenzy.
2. Football fans, unlike those in other sports, seem more apathetic towards people who do things that are so frankly disgusting (like singing racist songs about an individual player) that they'd be arrested in public life.
Other sports are desperate to cling on to their clean image. Everything is downplayed and an excuse for everything. Two reasons:
1. Football is trapped in a hyper-growth cycle, perpetuated by a tiny minority who make money from the sport, and that means that it lives and dies by the marketing machine whipping thick fans up into a frenzy.
2. Football fans, unlike those in other sports, seem more apathetic towards people who do things that are so frankly disgusting (like singing racist songs about an individual player) that they'd be arrested in public life.
Who is apathetic? You're in a thread full of football supporters and nobody is saying it isn't a problem. You were making excuses for the issues in cricket and rugby before. You try to dismiss them which is double standards
On the topic of apathetic. In another thread the other day you were recommending two breweries you loved. How can you have such love and recommend those companies considering their issues? You deplore that behaviour in football, but love companies that face the same issues?
You read the threads on PH about matters like racism, homophobia and sexism? A lot of the views on here pass any level of acceptability. Why are you nowhere to be seen on those threads? You can directly challenge the people that have the views that you oppose. Why are you sitting on this thread fighting with football supporters about some other football supporters that aren't here?
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