The Official Manchester United Thread (Vol 12)

[franki68]

LF5335 said:

Both of the managers you mention had completely transformed their squads after two years with their own players. They might not have been the right players ultimately, but there was change. We are still using players as far back as the LVG era and rating them as critical to the team (Shaw).

The lack of squad turnover can be blamed on all aspects of the club, but ETH’s chosen players are pretty crap.

I seem to recall every gooner I know wanting arteta gone .
I am unsure what united should do tbh ,it’s hard to deny the st we have had to watch this season in the same way it’s hard to deny the injury situation has been hugely impactful .
Our two most recent influential players in terms of how we play have been out almost the entire season ,we haven’t finished one game I believe with the same back 4 we started it with .
There are pros and cons but unless certain deadwood is shifted it’s almost irrelevant who comes in .

[jgrewal]

Oh yeh 2 decades for the gunners so that is even worse!

I think I prefer City (doesn't matter how many times they win it), Arsenal and Liverpool in that order.

We might be waiting a while for that sweet taste - we're also at decade of not winning a league title and you understand how these 10 years become 15-20.

[LF5335]

franki68 said:

I seem to recall every gooner I know wanting arteta gone .
I am unsure what united should do tbh ,it’s hard to deny the st we have had to watch this season in the same way it’s hard to deny the injury situation has been hugely impactful .
Our two most recent influential players in terms of how we play have been out almost the entire season ,we haven’t finished one game I believe with the same back 4 we started it with .
There are pros and cons but unless certain deadwood is shifted it’s almost irrelevant who comes in .

I’d still want him gone if that style of football is what he’s serving up, but that’s a different discussion and they do love dull football there. However, it was clear to see from Day One what his desired style of play was and how he was setting his team up. The players he had weren’t up to it, so he shipped them out and brought some new ones in, who didn’t all work out, but the strategy was there. We don’t have a clear style of play, players aren’t being shipped out and those coming in are far more likely to fail than succeed.

[Gone a bit AMG]

franki68 said:

I seem to recall every gooner I know wanting arteta gone .
I am unsure what united should do tbh ,it’s hard to deny the st we have had to watch this season in the same way it’s hard to deny the injury situation has been hugely impactful .
Our two most recent influential players in terms of how we play have been out almost the entire season ,we haven’t finished one game I believe with the same back 4 we started it with .
There are pros and cons but unless certain deadwood is shifted it’s almost irrelevant who comes in .

Yep Piers Morgan ranting on talkSPORT at a similar stage in Arteta’s tenure summed up the fickle nature of fans. He got the time he needed. We have some of the worst fickle fans due to our historical successes.

Losing Martinez and Shaw has been huge. What a blow it was losing Mainoo pre season is now understood by our more fickle fans as he’s now essential for the England squad….he’s not obviously but he’s been developed and brought on by ETH and missing him and Casemiro on top of the above two and not having Mount would disrupt the best laid plans….

Who do we get to replace ETH? And my favourite amongst our fickle fans, not you Franki, but what style of play should we be playing? I keep hearing we’ve no style of play but what should we be playing? Never gets answered.

It’s not ETH’s fault he’s suffered the last of the Woodward errors. He’s improved a significant number of the squad and has brought on several youngsters. I hope he stays after winning the FA Cup and finishing 4th.

[LF5335]

It does get answered.

I don’t actually care what style we play, I’d just like to see a coherent style and judge its subjective effectiveness / entertainment value then.

I can see Arsenal’s style, I can see City’s style. I don’t like them as I think it’s efficient rather than entertaining. I can see Liverpool’s and Spurs and think it’s thoroughly entertaining as well as reasonably effective

[G-wiz]

Gone a bit AMG said:

I hope he stays after winning the FA Cup and finishing 4th.

Can you honestly seeing us finishing 4th, putting in performances like against Brentford, considering how far we are already behind Villa and Spurs?

We may win a one-off game like the FA Cup final, but for the next 9 league games, no way are we consistent enough to pull of 7+ wins.

[jgrewal]

Top 4? We have more chance of finishing 10th right now. This team is fully checked out for the season.

In a season where top 5 place was good enough for champions league football and we couldn't even finish in the required places. Excuses aside injuries etc that alone is sackable with the resources available to ETH.

Anyway we should be used to it this is our normal yoyo process since Sir Alex retired. One season in champions league, exit swiftly the season after by group or round of 16, then fail to qualify that season. Spend money and get new manager for short term correction and get back in because of the contractual pressure from Adidas to avoid 2 consecutive seasons of no champions league. Repeat..

[Gone a bit AMG]

G-wiz said:

Can you honestly seeing us finishing 4th, putting in performances like against Brentford, considering how far we are already behind Villa and Spurs?

We may win a one-off game like the FA Cup final, but for the next 9 league games, no way are we consistent enough to pull of 7+ wins.

My point was if he achieves that, which appears unlikely, then he should stay. If he doesn’t then he will probably be replaced. I think you’re right but if he does it he deserves another year. There’s a hell of a lot of change elsewhere in the club and has been for the time he’s been in charge. He’s had the first mid season World Cup last season that’s led to an unprecedented level of injuries this and he’s dealt with off field issues which have denied him good players (of challenging character) that have also been a significant distraction.

I can’t see the point of another immediate reset in the dugout. Unless our run in is catastrophic. SJR’s team needs more than a few months to unpick the current structure and embed a new successful one. Do all that while a new manager wants to embed a new philosophy? Although some of us can’t see progress I think there is some and for once ditching the manager despite the understandable frustrations, just might be the worst thing we could do.

That’s my angle, I accept opinions will vary.

[uk66fastback]

franki68 said:

uk66fastback said:

Don’t put Ten Haag at the same level as Klopp (if all other things are equal) when it comes to motivation, man-management and coaching - that is an insane comparison.

Talk about missing the point .

Tell me your point then as it obviously wasn’t clear.

[bstb3]

Gone a bit AMG said:

Unless our run in is catastrophic. SJR’s team needs more than a few months to unpick the current structure and embed a new successful one. Do all that while a new manager wants to embed a new philosophy? Although some of us can’t see progress I think there is some and for once ditching the manager despite the understandable frustrations, just might be the worst thing we could do.

This is kind of where I am with it. Certainly not happy with where we are at, but at the same time there is already so much change that adding more with the manager is asking for trouble. How would we attract players, at least the non mercenary ones, with such a chaos? We have to be careful to move steadily. If ETH goes we will end up keeping a lot of the players 'to see how they go with a new manager' and we know how that works. The first year will be decent, the second they will start to tire / ease off and the cycle repeats.

At the same time though, with performances (if that's even the word) like Saturday his position is really dicey and it would be no surprise if, should things not improve, he does go.

[Challo]

bstb3 said:

Gone a bit AMG said:

Unless our run in is catastrophic. SJR’s team needs more than a few months to unpick the current structure and embed a new successful one. Do all that while a new manager wants to embed a new philosophy? Although some of us can’t see progress I think there is some and for once ditching the manager despite the understandable frustrations, just might be the worst thing we could do.

This is kind of where I am with it. Certainly not happy with where we are at, but at the same time there is already so much change that adding more with the manager is asking for trouble. How would we attract players, at least the non mercenary ones, with such a chaos? We have to be careful to move steadily. If ETH goes we will end up keeping a lot of the players 'to see how they go with a new manager' and we know how that works. The first year will be decent, the second they will start to tire / ease off and the cycle repeats.

At the same time though, with performances (if that's even the word) like Saturday his position is really dicey and it would be no surprise if, should things not improve, he does go.

The CEO won’t be in until the summer, Ashworth will be the same if he is coming, they are looking at other roles in recruitment and technical director. Quite a lot going on above the manager to get sorted first.

I have no doubt INEOS are sounding out managers and seeing who could be available.

[hmg]

bstb3 said:

Gone a bit AMG said:

Unless our run in is catastrophic. SJR’s team needs more than a few months to unpick the current structure and embed a new successful one. Do all that while a new manager wants to embed a new philosophy? Although some of us can’t see progress I think there is some and for once ditching the manager despite the understandable frustrations, just might be the worst thing we could do.

This is kind of where I am with it. Certainly not happy with where we are at, but at the same time there is already so much change that adding more with the manager is asking for trouble. How would we attract players, at least the non mercenary ones, with such a chaos? We have to be careful to move steadily. If ETH goes we will end up keeping a lot of the players 'to see how they go with a new manager' and we know how that works. The first year will be decent, the second they will start to tire / ease off and the cycle repeats.

At the same time though, with performances (if that's even the word) like Saturday his position is really dicey and it would be no surprise if, should things not improve, he does go.

Given how difficult it is to move on players these days and the constraints of FFP ( or whatever’s it’s called now) any new manager/ back room team will still be faced with having to make the best of fitting round pegs in square holes.

It’s simply not possible to buy your way to success anymore. It has to be a style and philosophy that is ingrained in the whole club top to bottom… this takes time given the constraints previously mentioned.

Whether ETH is the man to do this is fully open to debate but if he goes we may get a new manager bounce like has happened at Tottenham and for a time at Brighton but all too often it is short lived. The Prem is very different from all the other European leagues and even if we dropped a young Fergie into the job right now it would be much more difficult to turn the club around.

The final 10 games will be telling.

[LF5335]

The mess we’re in has been coming for years. It’s a culmination of getting every single facet of running a football club wrong. Just as building success takes time and patience to get everything right. One of the things that need to be right is the manager. Is he the right man? After two seasons he’s not exactly covering himself in glory, or giving us optimism about the future. United are a team there for the taking no matter who we play. A lot of that is down to piss poor recruitment, yet we continue to keep these players on the books. I’ve said it before, but if we want real change then we have to cut our losses and take some major risks, both football and financial.

Pay players contracts up. Can anyone tell me what we gained having Martial wandering round Carrington picking up £1/4m a week? The same applies to some lesser players. We’ve offloaded youth players for fun, but not the real problem ones. Rashford stinks. He’s as big a problem as Ronaldo, Pogba, or Lingard were. Pay up his contract. Offer him to PSG for free, just get rid. The same applies to other crap out there.

All the talk of CL is nonsense. We won’t qualify, even if we did, we’re nowhere near good enough to go very far in it. Plus attracting players because of it, is exactly what we’ve done wrong. If a player wants to,play for United then good, if it depends on CL qualification then they shouldn’t be for us.

If someone is serious about enacting real change then they need to act radically. One massively entertaining and enjoyable result in the FA Cup isn’t good enough.

Having said that, we’ve got to consider that changing managers means we’re competing in a very limited managerial pot with Liverpool, Bayern, Barca and probably Real. We’re not very high up the pecking order there.

[and31]

hmg said:

The final 10 games will be telling.

I think the next two games will be telling-
However , as dreadful as it’s been at times I’d like to see what ETH can do with a full fit squad .the circus just starts again with a new manager.

[LF5335]

and31 said:

I think the next two games will be telling-
However , as dreadful as it’s been at times I’d like to see what ETH can do with a full fit squad .the circus just starts again with a new manager.

We keep hearing the same thing about injuries. Whenever someone comes back from injury we’re promised improvement, it rarely happens.

Out of interest what would you consider to be our best starting XI and substitutes bench?

[Challo]

LF5335 said:

The mess we’re in has been coming for years. It’s a culmination of getting every single facet of running a football club wrong. Just as building success takes time and patience to get everything right. One of the things that need to be right is the manager. Is he the right man? After two seasons he’s not exactly covering himself in glory, or giving us optimism about the future. United are a team there for the taking no matter who we play. A lot of that is down to piss poor recruitment, yet we continue to keep these players on the books. I’ve said it before, but if we want real change then we have to cut our losses and take some major risks, both football and financial.

Pay players contracts up. Can anyone tell me what we gained having Martial wandering round Carrington picking up £1/4m a week? The same applies to some lesser players. We’ve offloaded youth players for fun, but not the real problem ones. Rashford stinks. He’s as big a problem as Ronaldo, Pogba, or Lingard were. Pay up his contract. Offer him to PSG for free, just get rid. The same applies to other crap out there.

All the talk of CL is nonsense. We won’t qualify, even if we did, we’re nowhere near good enough to go very far in it. Plus attracting players because of it, is exactly what we’ve done wrong. If a player wants to,play for United then good, if it depends on CL qualification then they shouldn’t be for us.

If someone is serious about enacting real change then they need to act radically. One massively entertaining and enjoyable result in the FA Cup isn’t good enough.

Having said that, we’ve got to consider that changing managers means we’re competing in a very limited managerial pot with Liverpool, Bayern, Barca and probably Real. We’re not very high up the pecking order there.

I agree on the point around paying up contracts, but I presume the club will try and loan them out to at least offset some of the financial hit. Martial was only kept as we had no other options for centre forward.

Given the length and size of Rashford wage they couldn’t afford to pay it up. Will be over 70m.

[and31]

LF5335 said:

and31 said:

I think the next two games will be telling-
However , as dreadful as it’s been at times I’d like to see what ETH can do with a full fit squad .the circus just starts again with a new manager.

We keep hearing the same thing about injuries. Whenever someone comes back from injury we’re promised improvement, it rarely happens.

Out of interest what would you consider to be our best starting XI and substitutes bench?

Not sure on our best starting 11 at the moment, but a fully fit Luke shaw and Martinez would certainly help things-

[LF5335]

and31 said:

LF5335 said:

and31 said:

I think the next two games will be telling-
However , as dreadful as it’s been at times I’d like to see what ETH can do with a full fit squad .the circus just starts again with a new manager.

We keep hearing the same thing about injuries. Whenever someone comes back from injury we’re promised improvement, it rarely happens.

Out of interest what would you consider to be our best starting XI and substitutes bench?

Not sure on our best starting 11 at the moment, but a fully fit Luke shaw and Martinez would certainly help things-

You must have an idea what a fully fit squad looks like then. We’re not the only team to suffer injuries this season, other than Newcastle most teams have carried on with only minor impact on their results. Every team has been hit quite hard too.

Out of date info but accurate to start of 2024

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/the-2023-24...

[2HFL]

https://twitter.com/FabrizioRomano/status/17748497...

New recruit….

[toastyhamster]

Just been mentioned by Sky on the Ipswich v Southampton game, Wilcox has resigned apparently, but Saints aren't happy about it, nor the timing.