The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 12]
Discussion
type-r said:
I do agree with Redknapp's analysis about not having leaders at the back. Whether we mark zonally or not, or whether it is to blame (or not) - we simply do not have a leader or leaders at the back to direct who should be picking up who and generally organising the back four.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/tran...
I partly agreed with him and with Carra. Yes we need a leader (Matip looked a bit like one when he first joined but doesn't now). Just reading a book where Thommo talks about what a difference it made to him and the other defenders when Clem left and was replaced by Grobelaar. Clem organised the defence and they relied a lot on his shouting and direction. Grob didn't play like that and we were half way down the league for a while as a result.http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/tran...
Mings clearly isn't a goalie that leads and organises his defence either. But someone clearly needs to be in there who will. I have no clue to whether VvD is that man - although clearly he knows how to agitate for a move when not happy. Not keen on him for that reason and not an expert on other players these days to know who could come in.
But like Carra, I also don't think 1 man will stop that defence leaking goals just like that.
joshcowin said:
Did we not but the RB as a squad player? We all moan about a paper thin squad, we buy a squad player and because he isn't a superstar some are annoyed!?
I also think Moreno can be a player we use in certain situations so why get rid?
I think you're referring to Robertson (a LB). The majority don't want superstars, but players who can come straight into the first 11 or compete for a first team place. This strengthens the squad, as you'll have a player who was first choice, now on the bench determined to earn his place back and keep the new player on his game. Whilst we do need a few more players with the increased games, buying a squad player does not improve the squad, it just increases it. We need genuine first team players.I also think Moreno can be a player we use in certain situations so why get rid?
Moreno can be a player we use in certain situations agreed. But he shouldn't be our first choice left back when a 31 year old CM played there last season because of his poor performances.
jammy-git said:
Klopp said:
We have to defend better. We did wrong and what do I want to do? Buy a new player in that position? I’m not sure that makes sense.We have to work on it. We did well in pre-season in the situation. One player cannot sort out the set-piece problem for Liverpool.
What annoyed me were basics things such as Firmino marking their huge CF on set plays. Where is the sense in that? Surely someone must take some responsibility and think that isn't the best idea.
Goals weren't really a problem, but we've added Solanke and Salah. Defense is a problem and we've added Robertson. Just doesn't make any sense. Granted one player might not solve the set-piece problem, but they might help organise the whole defense against set-pieces in particular.
Maybe playing 5-3-2 is the way forward. 3 CB's giving more protection across the defense and allowing Moreno and Clyne/Trent to push forward at will, knowing they have players covering them behind. This is where Moreno would be a very useful player, especially with his pace and willingness to get forward. Henderson and Can can just sit in front of the back 3 (as the 3 midfielders didn't really get forward a great deal anyway), giving our 3 attacking players the freedom to stay forward (Firmino in front of Henderson/Can and Mane/Salah on the wings). Only issue is we don't have another CB to partner Lovren and Matip who I feel confident would do a job.
Flip Martian said:
I partly agreed with him and with Carra. Yes we need a leader (Matip looked a bit like one when he first joined but doesn't now). Just reading a book where Thommo talks about what a difference it made to him and the other defenders when Clem left and was replaced by Grobelaar. Clem organised the defence and they relied a lot on his shouting and direction. Grob didn't play like that and we were half way down the league for a while as a result.
Mings clearly isn't a goalie that leads and organises his defence either. But someone clearly needs to be in there who will. I have no clue to whether VvD is that man - although clearly he knows how to agitate for a move when not happy. Not keen on him for that reason and not an expert on other players these days to know who could come in.
But like Carra, I also don't think 1 man will stop that defence leaking goals just like that.
Mings started to show last season that he could be a leader - he spent the second half of the season shouting at the defence and trying to be a leader. It doesn't come naturally to him I'd say and without being too harsh on him, he isn't the type of character when he is shouting at you that you would instantly sit up and think I better take notice. He did however start attempting to command the defence last season. Bring in a another Thommo-like defender like who truly is a commander, then you can it could have the 'Suarez effect' on the defence around you. Firmino marking their tallest player wouldn't happen. Suddenly they don't look like headless chickens any more and look organised and perhaps even making defending look simple!Mings clearly isn't a goalie that leads and organises his defence either. But someone clearly needs to be in there who will. I have no clue to whether VvD is that man - although clearly he knows how to agitate for a move when not happy. Not keen on him for that reason and not an expert on other players these days to know who could come in.
But like Carra, I also don't think 1 man will stop that defence leaking goals just like that.
The set piece defending isn't a personnel issue - plenty of teams with lesser rated players defend them much better than we do... if it was just down to personnel, we could just go buy a couple of centre halves off a mid table team for a few million given most of them defend set pieces better than we do.
Its tactics and coaching.
Open play defending is another thing all together, particularly when you play a style that can leave the centre halves exposed.
Its tactics and coaching.
Open play defending is another thing all together, particularly when you play a style that can leave the centre halves exposed.
type-r said:
Mings started to show last season that he could be a leader - he spent the second half of the season shouting at the defence and trying to be a leader. It doesn't come naturally to him I'd say and without being too harsh on him, he isn't the type of character when he is shouting at you that you would instantly sit up and think I better take notice. He did however start attempting to command the defence last season. Bring in a another Thommo-like defender like who truly is a commander, then you can it could have the 'Suarez effect' on the defence around you. Firmino marking their tallest player wouldn't happen. Suddenly they don't look like headless chickens any more and look organised and perhaps even making defending look simple!
Fair point. Agreed on Mings. Players often need telling to do something every game, according to some managers - they don't retain it from game to game, bizarrely. I don't doubt for a second that Klopp can get improvement - whether its a new defender, reminding Mings to shout at his defence, or what. I get peed off watching us defend badly but at the same time I have faith things will improve.
RedTrident said:
It's the set pieces in the first instance. That has nothing to do with leaving the centre backs exposed. It's to do with leadership. A commanding centre back that can marshall the defence. Carraghar you'd hear from the other side of the stadium. Sammi also did it in a different way.
Once you've got that sorted you can look at the exposed centre backs, because our full backs push on. But look at the Watford goals, that's not why we conceded. In any case when our full backs do push forward, we need a more explosive central midfielder that can drop back. Henderson isn't that player.
Klopp is doing the best he can with the players he has inherited. The only new first 11 defender he has brought in is Matip on a free. The know new central midfielder he has is Wijnaldum.
It's bloody obvious why he identified VvD and Keita. It's up to the people in charge of transfers to push these over the line or identify quality alternatives that can do the same job. Neither has taken place.
I generally dip in and out of this forum. Once you've got that sorted you can look at the exposed centre backs, because our full backs push on. But look at the Watford goals, that's not why we conceded. In any case when our full backs do push forward, we need a more explosive central midfielder that can drop back. Henderson isn't that player.
Klopp is doing the best he can with the players he has inherited. The only new first 11 defender he has brought in is Matip on a free. The know new central midfielder he has is Wijnaldum.
It's bloody obvious why he identified VvD and Keita. It's up to the people in charge of transfers to push these over the line or identify quality alternatives that can do the same job. Neither has taken place.
But this I'm very much in agreement with. We do need height, we do need a leader at the back to marshal defence AND midfield, and we do need to be mildly competent at getting the players.
I don't think FSG are bad owners, I do think they have employed the wrong people too often (I'm not talking about managers).
jammy-git said:
Klopp said:
We have to defend better. We did wrong and what do I want to do? Buy a new player in that position? I’m not sure that makes sense.We have to work on it. We did well in pre-season in the situation. One player cannot sort out the set-piece problem for Liverpool.
Chris Stott said:
Its tactics and coaching.
Would like to see Carragher hired as a defensive coach, I thought he was spot on when debating with Rednap.
I heard Klopp had a an interview recently (only going from hear say). In this interview he'd said he was very happy with the defensive setup at Liverpool. Litterally the one thing that needed to be fixed, hasn't, of which he is seemingly happy about. That's dissapointing to hear and slightly mad.
Take that £100m and go buy the best goal keeper or defender in the world and stop faffing aroung.
On another note. At least the pressure is off us already. According to Sky Sports, everyone in the office and MOTD the Manks have already won the league.
Ascayman said:
jammy-git said:
Klopp said:
We have to defend better. We did wrong and what do I want to do? Buy a new player in that position? I’m not sure that makes sense.We have to work on it. We did well in pre-season in the situation. One player cannot sort out the set-piece problem for Liverpool.
And get a bloody leader.
Ascayman said:
jammy-git said:
Klopp said:
We have to defend better. We did wrong and what do I want to do? Buy a new player in that position? I’m not sure that makes sense.We have to work on it. We did well in pre-season in the situation. One player cannot sort out the set-piece problem for Liverpool.
T3LLIOTT said:
I think you're referring to Robertson (a LB). The majority don't want superstars, but players who can come straight into the first 11 or compete for a first team place. This strengthens the squad, as you'll have a player who was first choice, now on the bench determined to earn his place back and keep the new player on his game. Whilst we do need a few more players with the increased games, buying a squad player does not improve the squad, it just increases it. We need genuine first team players.
Moreno can be a player we use in certain situations agreed. But he shouldn't be our first choice left back when a 31 year old CM played there last season because of his poor performances.
You are correct I meant LB, we've made too many signings this window cannot keep up Moreno can be a player we use in certain situations agreed. But he shouldn't be our first choice left back when a 31 year old CM played there last season because of his poor performances.
I see what your saying and agree however I'm not unhappy with Robertson as some are. TAA has genuinely challenged Clyne who needs to find his mojo again!
As has been said a few time about Moreno I genuinely think Klopp and his team can make him a better player, I hope they do as he can take on a player, put a great ball in the box and plays with a lot of heart, just needs to polish up his positioning and defensive duties!
phil_cardiff said:
Ascayman said:
jammy-git said:
Klopp said:
We have to defend better. We did wrong and what do I want to do? Buy a new player in that position? I’m not sure that makes sense.We have to work on it. We did well in pre-season in the situation. One player cannot sort out the set-piece problem for Liverpool.
type-r said:
Ascayman said:
jammy-git said:
Klopp said:
We have to defend better. We did wrong and what do I want to do? Buy a new player in that position? I’m not sure that makes sense.We have to work on it. We did well in pre-season in the situation. One player cannot sort out the set-piece problem for Liverpool.
And get a bloody leader.
Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff