Discussion
Use Psychology said:
no way, it'd be ace. nothing better could happen to physics than discovering a great, gaping hole at the centre of it all. think of advances that we would make.
You misunderstand me, the Science of new horizons is fabulous, but that new horizon needs a Higgs mechanism, without it everything is wrong, the entire edifice of the Maths of Particle Physics would fall, carrers of 20 years and more would account for nothing.Thankfully, the mechanism is there, but the previous assumptions made are likely to be wrong, that is great for scientific endeavour.
But the complete absence would be catastrophic and actually impossible, the Cosmos can't exist without this mechanism.
The new field of science is based on this new Higgs Field phenomena and the micro-5th dimension it perhaps alludes to.
Existence only appears to exists, it's essentially a projection from the human conscience.
All this guff is an attempt to reverse engineer human thought rather than anything about the physical nature of the universe, scientists just can't or won't accept that we essentially have no greater "knowledge" than Aristotle and Plato had, we've meandered down an intellectual cul de sac with all this and need to get back to basics if we are to attempt to escape the matrix(sic).
God's not dead.
All this guff is an attempt to reverse engineer human thought rather than anything about the physical nature of the universe, scientists just can't or won't accept that we essentially have no greater "knowledge" than Aristotle and Plato had, we've meandered down an intellectual cul de sac with all this and need to get back to basics if we are to attempt to escape the matrix(sic).
God's not dead.
Simpo Two said:
God is simply the term applied to things we don't understand. Once upon a time god was very big, but as understanding expands, he shrinks.
Perhaps in the middle of all this there's a sub-atomic fractal-shaped hole with a tiny white-bearded fellow holding the sides together...!
Like the universe, your understanding is expanding into nothingness, and the line between knowledge and fact is incredibly uncertain, we have no certain knowledge other than the existence of your described God.Perhaps in the middle of all this there's a sub-atomic fractal-shaped hole with a tiny white-bearded fellow holding the sides together...!
Bedazzled said:
Can someone explain the Higgs mechanism in plain English? I can't make head nor tail of it.
It can't, but I'll try to give a visualisation that might (or might possibly not) give a little clue...First we have to get a grip of field theory, this takes an accomplished Mathematician a couple of years, but we don't have the time, so here is Field Theory in 5 minutes.
Imagine a box, it's a foot long on all sides, it is transparent and inside that box a matrix exists, you have to imagine them as fine wires at 1" centres that go from one side of the box to the side opposite, so if we number the sides of the box like the numbers on a dice the wires would run first from '1' to '6', so in your minds eye (iyme) run 144 wires from 1 to 6 and now iyme along just one of those wires put a little ripple, anywhere you like, so loads of wire and one of them has a single bump along its length.
This is a field.
The little kink is not a particle, it is the probability of a particle, but isn't one yet.
So now for a phenomena to exist this probability (kink) has to be amplified, so we run another 'field' (wires) from side '2' to '5' and you do the same and by coincidence this new Field (of wires) also has a kink that is close enough to the first to make them combine, this by co-incidence is enough to create a phenomena, this phenomena we'll call a photon.
We know this works and fields generate photons perfectly but nothing else.
But the maths needs a further field to account for the 'left over' maths and other phenomena.
This is a field (of wires) that runs from sides '3' to '4' we'll call this Field 'Higgs' and again the wires run at the same scale, but the kink is like a 'S' laid on its side and this additional bounce we call zero spin and its effect is to amplify hugely the other two kinks but they are cancelled out as a result so it disappears as its energy is used and we get not a photon but a real live 'weighty' particle.
That's the best I can do, it's basic and flawed, the best way to describe it is like saying an F1 race is filled with things with 4 wheels and an engine... you need the Maths to get the subtlety and beauty of the manner in which Alonso won the Valencia GP last week-end.
Edited by Gene Vincent on Tuesday 3rd July 13:04
The Black Flash said:
Use Psychology said:
the cosmos does exist 
and careers would not be worthless. science doesn't work like that, being wrong is what you do on the way to being right.
I love that. Brilliant and careers would not be worthless. science doesn't work like that, being wrong is what you do on the way to being right.
Lose ten minutes of work and you'll see fists punching screens furiously, 20 years and all for a wild goose chase? f
king furious, trust me.But it's not going to happen thankfully, the mechanism is there, it's just not what we thought a few years ago, so this is exciting times.
I'm having trouble answering that little lot comprehensively without spending a lot of time on it. Your understanding appears sufficient to gain further entry into the subject without my help and would I fear going really deep would drag this thread into complexity, which I'm trying to avoid.
But will add the following as points to bear in mind as you delve into this deeper. I suspect you know a fair bit already.
It is sufficient to say that the sum total of existence, that is all there is, is a combination of overlaid 4D fields.
There are interactions and there are non-interactive elements.
Almost the quantities we relate to such as mass, energy and even distance are all just descriptions of the states of these fields.
Time isn't a field, it is a consequence of causality, hence not a field at all, although one can question that assertion by bending the remit of what is and isn't a field!
If we were at the start of discovering a 5 dimensional cosmos then time I think would properly occupy the title of the 5th dimension and (possibly) gravitation being the true fourth.
But will add the following as points to bear in mind as you delve into this deeper. I suspect you know a fair bit already.
It is sufficient to say that the sum total of existence, that is all there is, is a combination of overlaid 4D fields.
There are interactions and there are non-interactive elements.
Almost the quantities we relate to such as mass, energy and even distance are all just descriptions of the states of these fields.
Time isn't a field, it is a consequence of causality, hence not a field at all, although one can question that assertion by bending the remit of what is and isn't a field!
If we were at the start of discovering a 5 dimensional cosmos then time I think would properly occupy the title of the 5th dimension and (possibly) gravitation being the true fourth.
Derek Smith said:
Strongest suggestion yet that CERN has something of note to disclose as Tevatron want a share of the publicity:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/large-hadron-co...
The comments section of that story is...interesting. You have to love the irony of people using the world wide web to accuse CERN of being a waste of time and money.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/large-hadron-co...
Edited by hornet on Tuesday 3rd July 19:18
If this leaked of the video:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscienc...
then can we trust them to run something complicated?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscienc...
then can we trust them to run something complicated?
From Reuters:
Scientists at the CERN research centre have discovered a new subatomic particle that could be the elusive Higgs boson, which is believed to be crucial in the formation of the universe.
"I can confirm that a particle has been discovered that is consistent with the Higgs boson theory," said John Womersley, chief executive of the UK's Science & Technology Facilities Council, at an event in London.
Joe Incandela, spokesman for one of the two teams hunting for the Higgs particle told an audience at CERN near Geneva: "This is a preliminary result, but we think it's very strong and very solid."
Ian Sample said: I've been told that anyone who thinks they haven't found a new particle after this has lost touch with reality.
Scientists at the CERN research centre have discovered a new subatomic particle that could be the elusive Higgs boson, which is believed to be crucial in the formation of the universe.
"I can confirm that a particle has been discovered that is consistent with the Higgs boson theory," said John Womersley, chief executive of the UK's Science & Technology Facilities Council, at an event in London.
Joe Incandela, spokesman for one of the two teams hunting for the Higgs particle told an audience at CERN near Geneva: "This is a preliminary result, but we think it's very strong and very solid."
Ian Sample said: I've been told that anyone who thinks they haven't found a new particle after this has lost touch with reality.
thehawk said:
So, in plain English, what does this mean for the future and how does it benefit the advancement of the human race?
we know something now that we didn't 2 years ago. cool isn't it? that's the only reason you need.most technologies are underpinned by blue-sky science that, when it was first done, would have been hard to predict the relevance/impact of.
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