Discussion
Until the death of Robert Bussard I had high hopes of his Polywell being the future of cheap power, but the loss of the driving force behind the design development has been tragic.
The US Navy are too undefined in their approach to what is mathematically a net producer of energy release from start-up.
Bussards death set back the entire Polywell project by a generation, an expensive death if ever there was one.
The US Navy are too undefined in their approach to what is mathematically a net producer of energy release from start-up.
Bussards death set back the entire Polywell project by a generation, an expensive death if ever there was one.
MiseryStreak said:
What are you talking about? The article I linked to says it's the most powerful laser ever tested, setting a new record and it's power output is 500 Terawatts, half a Petawatt.
What is your sub car sized laser that is twice as powerful (not quite 'roughly a thousand times that' by any stretch) as the NIF one?
Sorry, don't know why I said a thousand - brain fart with 'trillion watt' probably. The article is wrong though. That is by no means the worlds most powerful laser. It might deliver more energy in a pulse and be a record that way but there are plenty of petawatt class lasers. RAL has a selection; http://www.laserlab-europe.eu/transnational-access...What is your sub car sized laser that is twice as powerful (not quite 'roughly a thousand times that' by any stretch) as the NIF one?
Edited by hairykrishna on Tuesday 17th July 10:15
Gene Vincent said:
Until the death of Robert Bussard I had high hopes of his Polywell being the future of cheap power, but the loss of the driving force behind the design development has been tragic.
The US Navy are too undefined in their approach to what is mathematically a net producer of energy release from start-up.
Bussards death set back the entire Polywell project by a generation, an expensive death if ever there was one.
Always liked the electrostatic fusion idea. Built a toy one once;The US Navy are too undefined in their approach to what is mathematically a net producer of energy release from start-up.
Bussards death set back the entire Polywell project by a generation, an expensive death if ever there was one.
Fused deuterium and got a neutron signature, good fun!
Someone should throw a few million at the Polywell and see if it goes anywhere.
hairykrishna said:
Gene Vincent said:
Until the death of Robert Bussard I had high hopes of his Polywell being the future of cheap power, but the loss of the driving force behind the design development has been tragic.
The US Navy are too undefined in their approach to what is mathematically a net producer of energy release from start-up.
Bussards death set back the entire Polywell project by a generation, an expensive death if ever there was one.
Always liked the electrostatic fusion idea. Built a toy one once;The US Navy are too undefined in their approach to what is mathematically a net producer of energy release from start-up.
Bussards death set back the entire Polywell project by a generation, an expensive death if ever there was one.
Fused deuterium and got a neutron signature, good fun!
Someone should throw a few million at the Polywell and see if it goes anywhere.
The low number Higgs signature also supports the Polywell method is viable... every house could have one... a WB-12 or something in a cupboard, jump started and kicking out 20KW/hr for about a £1 a day over a ten year span.
hairykrishna said:
Always liked the electrostatic fusion idea. Built a toy one once;
Fused deuterium and got a neutron signature, good fun!
Someone should throw a few million at the Polywell and see if it goes anywhere.
You have totally redeemed yourself and the brain fart with that!Fused deuterium and got a neutron signature, good fun!
Someone should throw a few million at the Polywell and see if it goes anywhere.
I want to hear more...
hairykrishna said:
Sorry, don't know why I said a thousand - brain fart with 'trillion watt' probably. The article is wrong though. That is by no means the worlds most powerful laser. It might deliver more energy in a pulse and be a record that way but there are plenty of petawatt class lasers. RAL has a selection; http://www.laserlab-europe.eu/transnational-access...
Isn't the energy and pulse length how they come up with the supposed 'power' outputs? The average power is low due to the time taken to recharge for another pulse (hours). The interesting developments are getting a relatively high energy pulse at a high (~10Hz) repetition rate.AJLintern said:
Isn't the energy and pulse length how they come up with the supposed 'power' outputs? The average power is low due to the time taken to recharge for another pulse (hours). The interesting developments are getting a relatively high energy pulse at a high (~10Hz) repetition rate.
Yes they calculate the power using the duration of the pulse which, if I remember correctly, is nanoseconds. Unless things have changed markedly the cooling of the optics and the charge times limit them to a few shots a day at most as you say.Thanks for that, going to read that when I get home.
Great first lines:
A really distressing trend has been developing for some time among scientifically knowledgeable people I've met. A lot of you are growing quite pessimistic about the prospects for practical fusion power in general, and fusion-powered space travel in particular.
Great first lines:
A really distressing trend has been developing for some time among scientifically knowledgeable people I've met. A lot of you are growing quite pessimistic about the prospects for practical fusion power in general, and fusion-powered space travel in particular.
Gene Vincent said:
Fun stuff indeed.
The low number Higgs signature also supports the Polywell method is viable... every house could have one... a WB-12 or something in a cupboard, jump started and kicking out 20KW/hr for about a £1 a day over a ten year span.
The thing that fascinates me about this sort of subject are the ramifications for human society. Being able to meet energy needs in a secure and low cost way would utterly change more or less everything wouldn't it? I'm intrigued as to how we'd transition society into such a situation? The amount of work we do simply to pay for energy, both direct (home, car etc) and indirect (food transportation, water purification etc) must be pretty significant. If such a low cost, low maintenance solution for personal power needs existed, our whole pattern of employment would change completely, and that's before you go all tinfoil hat and consider whether the energy generation complex would ever allow it. Fascinating topic.The low number Higgs signature also supports the Polywell method is viable... every house could have one... a WB-12 or something in a cupboard, jump started and kicking out 20KW/hr for about a £1 a day over a ten year span.
hornet said:
The thing that fascinates me about this sort of subject are the ramifications for human society. Being able to meet energy needs in a secure and low cost way would utterly change more or less everything wouldn't it? I'm intrigued as to how we'd transition society into such a situation? The amount of work we do simply to pay for energy, both direct (home, car etc) and indirect (food transportation, water purification etc) must be pretty significant. If such a low cost, low maintenance solution for personal power needs existed, our whole pattern of employment would change completely, and that's before you go all tinfoil hat and consider whether the energy generation complex would ever allow it. Fascinating topic.
I doubt we'll see cheap renewable energy in our lifetime. Not because of a lack of knowledge as I believe finds like the Higgs prove that we are still learning\advancing at a terrific rate but purely because the people in power are more interested in the bottom line then the betterment of man. Could you imagine them giving up all that wealth\power\control? No me neither so until that changes, the advancement of the human race will always be held back by politics rather than the rate of scientific discovery.
hornet said:
Gene Vincent said:
Fun stuff indeed.
The low number Higgs signature also supports the Polywell method is viable... every house could have one... a WB-12 or something in a cupboard, jump started and kicking out 20KW/hr for about a £1 a day over a ten year span.
The thing that fascinates me about this sort of subject are the ramifications for human society. Being able to meet energy needs in a secure and low cost way would utterly change more or less everything wouldn't it? I'm intrigued as to how we'd transition society into such a situation? The amount of work we do simply to pay for energy, both direct (home, car etc) and indirect (food transportation, water purification etc) must be pretty significant. If such a low cost, low maintenance solution for personal power needs existed, our whole pattern of employment would change completely, and that's before you go all tinfoil hat and consider whether the energy generation complex would ever allow it. Fascinating topic.The low number Higgs signature also supports the Polywell method is viable... every house could have one... a WB-12 or something in a cupboard, jump started and kicking out 20KW/hr for about a £1 a day over a ten year span.
Empires would crumble, the irony is that in the end it would likely cause the collapse of too much too soon in society.
It's a wonderful thing, but terrifying prospect.
In the end it is a wealth destroyer, not the panacea it at first appears.
It won't ever be free though, just like the battery tax that they're introducing to offset the lost fuel duty revenue. Electricity from the grid will always come at a cost, no matter how it is produced. The reactor build cost, ongoing R&D, maintenance and infrastructure will all cost more than they do now, and any shortfall will be taken up by increased taxation. Domestic fusion appliances, granting unlimited energy for individuals might never be allowed, and probably wisely.
The point is it will be clean and virtually limitless energy.
The point is it will be clean and virtually limitless energy.
MiseryStreak said:
It won't ever be free though, just like the battery tax that they're introducing to offset the lost fuel duty revenue. Electricity from the grid will always come at a cost, no matter how it is produced. The reactor build cost, ongoing R&D, maintenance and infrastructure will all cost more than they do now, and any shortfall will be taken up by increased taxation. Domestic fusion appliances, granting unlimited energy for individuals might never be allowed, and probably wisely.
The point is it will be clean and virtually limitless energy.
Fusion devices still consume fuel, albeit not very much in terms of volume and mass.The point is it will be clean and virtually limitless energy.
Energy has an innate value and the fuel price will either reflect this or the government in that area will probably tax the fuel to the hilt until it balances out.
Fusion reactors that could replace, say, a car engine are currently a long way off, IMHO.
Something that could run a big ship, commercial airliner, maybe even a train, could be possible in the near term. Once someone achieves something practical.
It's not the reactor, it's the shielding and energy generation and conversion systems.
Aneutronic will help with this, but Aneutronic is not purely without neutrons.
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