NASA’s Perseverance Mars rover

[Blackpuddin]

Wonder if there's going to be cooling issues.

[SpudLink]

Blackpuddin said:

Wonder if there's going to be cooling issues.

I think they use the battery to keep essential systems warm.

Edit: I assume you meant issues with being too cold, rather than the need to keep it cool?

[ChocolateFrog]

What batteries do they use on the helicopter?

I'm assuming regular Li-ion batteries wouldn't last 2 mins in those temperatures.

[Smiljan]

It has six Lithium Ion batteries on board.

[Blackpuddin]

SpudLink said:

Blackpuddin said:

Wonder if there's going to be cooling issues.

I think they use the battery to keep essential systems warm.

Edit: I assume you meant issues with being too cold, rather than the need to keep it cool?

Was actually thinking about motor overheating in use, triggering cutout, again apologies if out of depth here.

[ChocolateFrog]

Smiljan said:

It has six Lithium Ion batteries on board.

Yet my phone packs in when the temperature gets down to about 0°C

[Smiljan]

Presumably the batteries also power some sort of heating to keep them alive. I can't find any more detailed info on them but NASA do say in several places that surviving the night isn't a given. They need good solar through the day to give sufficient charge to survive the night.

[SpudLink]

Blackpuddin said:

SpudLink said:

Blackpuddin said:

Wonder if there's going to be cooling issues.

I think they use the battery to keep essential systems warm.

Edit: I assume you meant issues with being too cold, rather than the need to keep it cool?

Was actually thinking about motor overheating in use, triggering cutout, again apologies if out of depth here.

Someone will have more detail, but it will fly for less than a minute at a time, so overheating might not be a problem.

[defblade]

Smiljan said:

Presumably the batteries also power some sort of heating to keep them alive. I can't find any more detailed info on them but NASA do say in several places that surviving the night isn't a given. They need good solar through the day to give sufficient charge to survive the night.

It said on the video linked earlier that 2/3rds of the battery power goes on keeping the whole thing warm; only 1/3rd available for actual flying.

[Smiljan]

Thanks defblade, I’ll have to watch that video

[Smiljan]

Looks like the flight is on hold for a while until a software update is developed and validated.

https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/status...

[Flooble]

Lets hope they don't decide it needs a site visit.

[Zad]

Fingers crossed the software wasn't written by Boeing.

[rider73]

if its anything like my code, they are screwed....

actually i'd love to know the tech details of how it all hangs together and how they test and release software to something so so so far away!

[bmwmike]

rider73 said:

if its anything like my code, they are screwed....

actually i'd love to know the tech details of how it all hangs together and how they test and release software to something so so so far away!

Yes I'd like to know more about that too. Presumably they have clones that they run tests on, but still, there must be several layers of software running because at some level something is going to have to check the integrity (and source!) of the code received, sanity check it, be able to autonomously roll back if needed etc, but that something will need to be updated occasionally too, i'd have thought.

Being in software security, i'd love to know what their threat models look like and how they secure the end to end supply chain of hardware, firmware, and software.

[Blackpuddin]

Could China take control of it and use it to smash into the Rover? Only half joking.

[SpudLink]

Blackpuddin said:

Could China take control of it and use it to smash into the Rover? Only half joking.

Percy has a laser to defend itself.

[Eric Mc]

bmwmike said:

Yes I'd like to know more about that too. Presumably they have clones that they run tests on, but still, there must be several layers of software running because at some level something is going to have to check the integrity (and source!) of the code received, sanity check it, be able to autonomously roll back if needed etc, but that something will need to be updated occasionally too, i'd have thought.

Being in software security, i'd love to know what their threat models look like and how they secure the end to end supply chain of hardware, firmware, and software.

NASA has uploaded software to spacecraft many, many times - starting as far back as the 1960s. The Voyagers, for instance, had numerous upgrades over the decades they spent in space.

[rider73]

bmwmike said:

rider73 said:

if its anything like my code, they are screwed....

actually i'd love to know the tech details of how it all hangs together and how they test and release software to something so so so far away!

Yes I'd like to know more about that too. Presumably they have clones that they run tests on, but still, there must be several layers of software running because at some level something is going to have to check the integrity (and source!) of the code received, sanity check it, be able to autonomously roll back if needed etc, but that something will need to be updated occasionally too, i'd have thought.

Being in software security, i'd love to know what their threat models look like and how they secure the end to end supply chain of hardware, firmware, and software.

indeed - something i had not thought about - i'm sure there are plenty of external forces that would want to see USA fail at this sort of thing and perhaps try and corrupt the software program.....

[bmwmike]

Eric Mc said:

bmwmike said:

Yes I'd like to know more about that too. Presumably they have clones that they run tests on, but still, there must be several layers of software running because at some level something is going to have to check the integrity (and source!) of the code received, sanity check it, be able to autonomously roll back if needed etc, but that something will need to be updated occasionally too, i'd have thought.

Being in software security, i'd love to know what their threat models look like and how they secure the end to end supply chain of hardware, firmware, and software.

NASA has uploaded software to spacecraft many, many times - starting as far back as the 1960s. The Voyagers, for instance, had numerous upgrades over the decades they spent in space.

Right, but threat models change over time. And back in the 60's I doubt they were putting all that much thought into securing the software protocols and network communications etc but perhaps they did. One thing is for sure, the technology available today to naughty people even on the retail/consumer side is vastly more capable and accessible than in the 60's, can't imagine what nation state stuff is actually capable of, should they so choose to intervene and take control, sabotage, etc.

Edited by bmwmike on Wednesday 14th April 14:14