Bleeding help. Non standard engine change
Discussion
The states duff/failed... Fit a new one (Walher ideally) and it should be fine
Jack the front end up and bleed the system properly; air will come out then (heaters on full whack etc).
Folk say the E39s are hard to bleed; but never had any issues with mine
Good info here: https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/diy-bleeding-th...
Key is having the front end up a few inches
Jack the front end up and bleed the system properly; air will come out then (heaters on full whack etc).
Folk say the E39s are hard to bleed; but never had any issues with mine
Good info here: https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/diy-bleeding-th...
Key is having the front end up a few inches
Have you bled the heater too? On mine (Rover V8) the stat didn't open until I warmed up the motor a bit (not too much, mind, but enough to get a little system pressure), and then loosened the hose clips on the heater. A burp of air followed by a dribble of water and suddenly everything was OK again - stat opened, rad got full flow and all has been fine since.
Arnie Cunningham said:
Have you bled the heater too? On mine (Rover V8) the stat didn't open until I warmed up the motor a bit (not too much, mind, but enough to get a little system pressure), and then loosened the hose clips on the heater. A burp of air followed by a dribble of water and suddenly everything was OK again - stat opened, rad got full flow and all has been fine since.
No need to do that on an M52/54
d_a_n1979 said:
The states duff/failed... Fit a new one (Walher ideally) and it should be fine
Jack the front end up and bleed the system properly; air will come out then (heaters on full whack etc).
Folk say the E39s are hard to bleed; but never had any issues with mine
Good info here: https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/diy-bleeding-th...
Key is having the front end up a few inches
Its got a new stat in it, and a new water pump.. The front is currently jacked upJack the front end up and bleed the system properly; air will come out then (heaters on full whack etc).
Folk say the E39s are hard to bleed; but never had any issues with mine
Good info here: https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/diy-bleeding-th...
Key is having the front end up a few inches
Arnie Cunningham said:
Have you bled the heater too? On mine (Rover V8) the stat didn't open until I warmed up the motor a bit (not too much, mind, but enough to get a little system pressure), and then loosened the hose clips on the heater. A burp of air followed by a dribble of water and suddenly everything was OK again - stat opened, rad got full flow and all has been fine since.
I've tried to bleed it, it was working fine I.e the pipes getting hot, but with my persistence to get full flow now it appears that water is not flowing to the heater... I.e, if I take the hose off whilst running water doesn't piss out... I've installed a small bleed valve in line to the heater matrix.. but still nothing...
I would suggest that maybe the issue is that the heater matrix is higher than the header tank? - But then that's surely the same on every land rover every made, and the factory M52 defender.
Perhaps worthwhile unfitting the header tank, and temporarily bodging it so that its absolutely the highest point. Also, the engine is slightly off rotation from BMW spec, maybe by 11 degree or so... could this be causing issue somehow?
tommobot said:
d_a_n1979 said:
The states duff/failed... Fit a new one (Walher ideally) and it should be fine
Jack the front end up and bleed the system properly; air will come out then (heaters on full whack etc).
Folk say the E39s are hard to bleed; but never had any issues with mine
Good info here: https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/diy-bleeding-th...
Key is having the front end up a few inches
Its got a new stat in it, and a new water pump.. The front is currently jacked upJack the front end up and bleed the system properly; air will come out then (heaters on full whack etc).
Folk say the E39s are hard to bleed; but never had any issues with mine
Good info here: https://www.bimmerfest.com/threads/diy-bleeding-th...
Key is having the front end up a few inches
Arnie Cunningham said:
Have you bled the heater too? On mine (Rover V8) the stat didn't open until I warmed up the motor a bit (not too much, mind, but enough to get a little system pressure), and then loosened the hose clips on the heater. A burp of air followed by a dribble of water and suddenly everything was OK again - stat opened, rad got full flow and all has been fine since.
I've tried to bleed it, it was working fine I.e the pipes getting hot, but with my persistence to get full flow now it appears that water is not flowing to the heater... I.e, if I take the hose off whilst running water doesn't piss out... I've installed a small bleed valve in line to the heater matrix.. but still nothing...
I would suggest that maybe the issue is that the heater matrix is higher than the header tank? - But then that's surely the same on every land rover every made, and the factory M52 defender.
Perhaps worthwhile unfitting the header tank, and temporarily bodging it so that its absolutely the highest point. Also, the engine is slightly off rotation from BMW spec, maybe by 11 degree or so... could this be causing issue somehow?
I've had failed states, water pumps and viscous fans before and they were all new!
Which makes/brand have you used?
Another question is do you know if anything like radweld has been used in the engine/car before etc?
I haven't tried it without the stat..
Don't think rad weld has been used, would be fairly confident previous owner would stay away from thermostat / water pump from local motor factors..
Am I right in thinking of I plonk the stat in boiling water after a while I should see it open up ?
Don't think rad weld has been used, would be fairly confident previous owner would stay away from thermostat / water pump from local motor factors..
Am I right in thinking of I plonk the stat in boiling water after a while I should see it open up ?
tommobot said:
I haven't tried it without the stat..
Don't think rad weld has been used, would be fairly confident previous owner would stay away from thermostat / water pump from local motor factors..
Am I right in thinking of I plonk the stat in boiling water after a while I should see it open up ?
Yes, it’s obvious when it opens.Don't think rad weld has been used, would be fairly confident previous owner would stay away from thermostat / water pump from local motor factors..
Am I right in thinking of I plonk the stat in boiling water after a while I should see it open up ?
I'd go back to basics - take the rad out and ensure there's flow through it. Put the thermostat into boiling water and ensure it opens. Run the car without a thermostat and see what happens.
That definitely looks to be an M52 engine. With the intro of the M52TU BMW went to a thermostat controlled by the ECU but the M52 should have a standard thermostat. Any chance an M52TU stat was fitted? (no idea if they're physically interchangeable)
Which reminds me of another issue that used to affect the Ford Zetec engine (mid 90s Mondeo lump) when installed in a Caterham etc. Can't recall the exact details but one company's install required the drilling of a small bypass hole in the thermostat otherwise the hot coolant from the engine couldn't reach the thermostat because there was a "plug" of cold water in the way. The bypass hole allowed some flow through the stat so that the hot water could reach it and make it open fully. Could you have a similar issue?
That definitely looks to be an M52 engine. With the intro of the M52TU BMW went to a thermostat controlled by the ECU but the M52 should have a standard thermostat. Any chance an M52TU stat was fitted? (no idea if they're physically interchangeable)
Which reminds me of another issue that used to affect the Ford Zetec engine (mid 90s Mondeo lump) when installed in a Caterham etc. Can't recall the exact details but one company's install required the drilling of a small bypass hole in the thermostat otherwise the hot coolant from the engine couldn't reach the thermostat because there was a "plug" of cold water in the way. The bypass hole allowed some flow through the stat so that the hot water could reach it and make it open fully. Could you have a similar issue?
AW10 said:
I'd go back to basics - take the rad out and ensure there's flow through it. Put the thermostat into boiling water and ensure it opens. Run the car without a thermostat and see what happens.
That definitely looks to be an M52 engine. With the intro of the M52TU BMW went to a thermostat controlled by the ECU but the M52 should have a standard thermostat. Any chance an M52TU stat was fitted? (no idea if they're physically interchangeable)
Which reminds me of another issue that used to affect the Ford Zetec engine (mid 90s Mondeo lump) when installed in a Caterham etc. Can't recall the exact details but one company's install required the drilling of a small bypass hole in the thermostat otherwise the hot coolant from the engine couldn't reach the thermostat because there was a "plug" of cold water in the way. The bypass hole allowed some flow through the stat so that the hot water could reach it and make it open fully. Could you have a similar issue?
I'll take the stat out and test it later.That definitely looks to be an M52 engine. With the intro of the M52TU BMW went to a thermostat controlled by the ECU but the M52 should have a standard thermostat. Any chance an M52TU stat was fitted? (no idea if they're physically interchangeable)
Which reminds me of another issue that used to affect the Ford Zetec engine (mid 90s Mondeo lump) when installed in a Caterham etc. Can't recall the exact details but one company's install required the drilling of a small bypass hole in the thermostat otherwise the hot coolant from the engine couldn't reach the thermostat because there was a "plug" of cold water in the way. The bypass hole allowed some flow through the stat so that the hot water could reach it and make it open fully. Could you have a similar issue?
As far as I'm aware the M52TU is an electronic stat, so I would have thought they are physically and mechanically different?
I've drilled a tiny 2mm hole in the stat to at least allow some water to circulate in theory.
I'm 99% confident that rad is working fine. As noted earlier, the car was working fine and I took it out for a drive and temperature stayed normal. With help I managed to get it bled by just pure luck, but we suspected the water pump may be nackered - It was, put a new one on and its been woefully airlocked ever since it appears!
If i'm taking the stat out to test it, I might aswell fire it up and see what happens...
Yes, I find simple cooling systems are.....simple. But there's lots of complexity on cooling systems these days and I sometimes struggle to work out "why".
On one of my motors, I removed the water pump bypass since the install was full flow and had a bypass thermostat instead.
That, combined with a somewhat restricted outlet from the heads - there was plenty of flow to keep the damn thing cool at full throttle - but the water pump built enough pressure to blow core plugs out! But on the downstream side, where the header tank was, there wasn't enough static pressure though to lift the 15psi rad cap. WTF!
On one of my motors, I removed the water pump bypass since the install was full flow and had a bypass thermostat instead.
That, combined with a somewhat restricted outlet from the heads - there was plenty of flow to keep the damn thing cool at full throttle - but the water pump built enough pressure to blow core plugs out! But on the downstream side, where the header tank was, there wasn't enough static pressure though to lift the 15psi rad cap. WTF!
AW10 said:
I'd go back to basics - take the rad out and ensure there's flow through it. Put the thermostat into boiling water and ensure it opens. Run the car without a thermostat and see what happens.
That definitely looks to be an M52 engine. With the intro of the M52TU BMW went to a thermostat controlled by the ECU but the M52 should have a standard thermostat. Any chance an M52TU stat was fitted? (no idea if they're physically interchangeable)
Which reminds me of another issue that used to affect the Ford Zetec engine (mid 90s Mondeo lump) when installed in a Caterham etc. Can't recall the exact details but one company's install required the drilling of a small bypass hole in the thermostat otherwise the hot coolant from the engine couldn't reach the thermostat because there was a "plug" of cold water in the way. The bypass hole allowed some flow through the stat so that the hot water could reach it and make it open fully. Could you have a similar issue?
That definitely looks to be an M52 engine. With the intro of the M52TU BMW went to a thermostat controlled by the ECU but the M52 should have a standard thermostat. Any chance an M52TU stat was fitted? (no idea if they're physically interchangeable)
Which reminds me of another issue that used to affect the Ford Zetec engine (mid 90s Mondeo lump) when installed in a Caterham etc. Can't recall the exact details but one company's install required the drilling of a small bypass hole in the thermostat otherwise the hot coolant from the engine couldn't reach the thermostat because there was a "plug" of cold water in the way. The bypass hole allowed some flow through the stat so that the hot water could reach it and make it open fully. Could you have a similar issue?
Another wasted afternoon.
Right, so rad is fine, flows ok.
Water flows with thermostat out.
Put stat back in, refilled from heater pipes.
Ran and revved for 10min or so.
Top hose hot, rad hot, bottom hose cold.
Opened bleed valve before stat water gushes out... Last time it was empty and stationary.
No heat to heater pipes... Put header tank cap on.. and sealed system to run for min or 2...
Opened OEM bleed valve on thermostat housing.. nothing, no water bone dry ... Turned off engine as could only assume catastrophic failure.
Slow trickle or water, untightened header tank, water rushes and comes pissing out.
Help!
Now I'm completely stumped.
Maybe just get a pressure testing kit, I have no f'ing idea any more
Right, so rad is fine, flows ok.
Water flows with thermostat out.
Put stat back in, refilled from heater pipes.
Ran and revved for 10min or so.
Top hose hot, rad hot, bottom hose cold.
Opened bleed valve before stat water gushes out... Last time it was empty and stationary.
No heat to heater pipes... Put header tank cap on.. and sealed system to run for min or 2...
Opened OEM bleed valve on thermostat housing.. nothing, no water bone dry ... Turned off engine as could only assume catastrophic failure.
Slow trickle or water, untightened header tank, water rushes and comes pissing out.
Help!
Now I'm completely stumped.
Maybe just get a pressure testing kit, I have no f'ing idea any more
tommobot said:
Another wasted afternoon.
Right, so rad is fine, flows ok.
Water flows with thermostat out.
Put stat back in, refilled from heater pipes.
Ran and revved for 10min or so.
Top hose hot, rad hot, bottom hose cold.
Opened bleed valve before stat water gushes out... Last time it was empty and stationary.
No heat to heater pipes... Put header tank cap on.. and sealed system to run for min or 2...
Opened OEM bleed valve on thermostat housing.. nothing, no water bone dry ... Turned off engine as could only assume catastrophic failure.
Slow trickle or water, untightened header tank, water rushes and comes pissing out.
Help!
Now I'm completely stumped.
Maybe just get a pressure testing kit, I have no f'ing idea any more
Are you absolutely sure that the water pump is working as it should be?Right, so rad is fine, flows ok.
Water flows with thermostat out.
Put stat back in, refilled from heater pipes.
Ran and revved for 10min or so.
Top hose hot, rad hot, bottom hose cold.
Opened bleed valve before stat water gushes out... Last time it was empty and stationary.
No heat to heater pipes... Put header tank cap on.. and sealed system to run for min or 2...
Opened OEM bleed valve on thermostat housing.. nothing, no water bone dry ... Turned off engine as could only assume catastrophic failure.
Slow trickle or water, untightened header tank, water rushes and comes pissing out.
Help!
Now I'm completely stumped.
Maybe just get a pressure testing kit, I have no f'ing idea any more
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