Benefit of a Free-Flow Air Filter + Supercharger?

Benefit of a Free-Flow Air Filter + Supercharger?

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Discussion

goodlife

Original Poster:

1,852 posts

261 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
IIRC, fitting better flowing air filers to normally aspirated engines allow more air to be sucked into an engine, therefore increasing performance.

However, if the engine is Supercharged then the compressor is working even at idle speeds, so air is constantly pressurised before being stuffed into the cylinders.

Seeing as the supercharger compressor is already shoving more air than is ambiently available, changing the resistance of it's INTAKE side is not an issue, as it will always OUTPUT 'boosted' air.

However, how come air filter manufacturers and tuners claim bhp increases for free-flow air filters with Supercharged engines?

All I can think is that it enables the Supercharger to run more efficiently, therefore reducing the bhp required to spin itself.

Someone care to explain the real reason?

plotloss

67,280 posts

272 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
Marketing?

Surely if the air filter flows more per unit then the charger will charge more per unit creating even better VE?

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

256 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
Surely ristricted airflow will affect super and turbo charged cars as much or more than non FI cars?

With FI you need to get more air through the intake system, any restrictions will be exagerated?

planetdave

9,921 posts

255 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
Get a drinking straw and try sucking/blowing through that - then try the same through a one inch pipe.

It takes work to get air through a narrow pipe - which can be more gainfully employed elsewhere.

So a free-er filter and head work are always worthwhile 'cos you get 'free' energy from them

vixpy1

42,630 posts

266 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
planetdave said:
Get a drinking straw and try sucking/blowing through that - then try the same through a one inch pipe.

It takes work to get air through a narrow pipe - which can be more gainfully employed elsewhere.

So a free-er filter and head work are always worthwhile 'cos you get 'free' energy from them


Dave, Whenever you post i can't get out of my head the image of

'Dave Angel, Eco Warrior' from the fast show!!!

'Shirely, don'd do that love!'

goodlife

Original Poster:

1,852 posts

261 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
planetdave said:
Get a drinking straw and try sucking/blowing through that - then try the same through a one inch pipe.

It takes work to get air through a narrow pipe - which can be more gainfully employed elsewhere.
So are you saying that the energy required by the supercharger to operate is reduced (as the 'straw' is wider).

So the engine doesn't produce more power, it's just the Superchrger draws less energy, and thus this 'saved' energy (by way of a more efficient Supercharger) is delivered to the flywheel?

Pigeon

18,535 posts

248 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
The supercharger will actually use slightly less power with a restricted inlet (if you block the suction hose of a hoover with your hand, the motor speeds up as it's having to work less hard)... but the fact that you are restricting the flow means that less charge is getting into the engine, so the engine produces less power, and the drop in output of the engine is generally more than the drop in consumption of the supercharger.

Think of this one: when you supercharge a carburetted engine it's generally best for a variety of reasons to put the carb before the supercharger, so the supercharger is sucking through the carb. You control the engine's power output by means of the throttle butterfly, which is part of the carb, restricting the intake side of the supercharger, just like a restrictive air filter would.

KITT

5,339 posts

243 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
vixpy1 said:
Dave, Whenever you post i can't get out of my head the image of

'Dave Angel, Eco Warrior' from the fast show!!!

'Shirely, don'd do that love!'

"Carried away, by a moonlight shadow......"

greenv8s

30,257 posts

286 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
The part load behaviour is not really relevant if you're looking for gains in peak power. Whatever turbo/supercharger system you use, increasing the pressure (and hence density) at the supercharger intake enables it to produce a denser charge at the outlet. This means that you want to avoid having any significant restriction upstream of the supercharger at full throttle. For a normally aspirated engine, any restriction here comes straight off the bottom line as you can never recover the lost pressure. For supercharged engines there are other ways of increasing the charge density, but you still can't beat having a system which inherently breaths well.

vixpy1

42,630 posts

266 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
KITT said:

vixpy1 said:
Dave, Whenever you post i can't get out of my head the image of

'Dave Angel, Eco Warrior' from the fast show!!!

'Shirely, don'd do that love!'


"Carried away, by a moonlight shadow......"


Oh yes!!!

planetdave

9,921 posts

255 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
Bastards - the lot of you!










Neil_H

15,323 posts

253 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all


Plantdave



Dave Angel (Eco Warrior)

planetdave

9,921 posts

255 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
You utter 'banker'




Slight difference - I'm the one wearing a Lotus on my head instead of the dodgy hat.

M@H

11,296 posts

274 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all

KITT

5,339 posts

243 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
planetdave said:
Slight difference - I'm the one wearing a Lotus on my head instead of the dodgy hat.

Take a closer look:



defiantly separated at birth

planetdave

9,921 posts

255 months

Tuesday 8th June 2004
quotequote all
I defiantly thought no-one would notice.



Do you all work with Neil?

goodlife

Original Poster:

1,852 posts

261 months

Wednesday 9th June 2004
quotequote all
Not got the Noble any more Gaz. Now got an XKR.

So to the topic in hand, if freeing airflow in the inlet side is a good thing, which of these is better??

A replacement K&N kit like this:


or a drop-in K&N Filter like this:

Mr E

21,776 posts

261 months

Wednesday 9th June 2004
quotequote all
Cone filter will give better gains, *but* it will be a crap load louder.

Mine sounds like Darth Vader. On acid.

edc

9,256 posts

253 months

Wednesday 9th June 2004
quotequote all
Some form of heatshield/CAI would be better.

See this for some airflow/filtration testing

www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

>> Edited by edc on Wednesday 9th June 17:26

goodlife

Original Poster:

1,852 posts

261 months

Wednesday 9th June 2004
quotequote all


Thanks Chaps. Just ordered the full induction kit with cone online.

Retail price in UK is circa £225.

Retail price in US is $335

jaguarxp.com doing a special offer at $149 which includes shipping to the UK.

That's well under half price of the UK equivilent - at around £83 - for (apparently) 12 more bhp at the rear wheels. That's just £7 per bhp

I do love the exchange rate at the moment