BHP how much is too much for the road?
Discussion
Lots of power is fine ( 400, 500 plus IMO) . What matters is the ability to put it down and to be safe.
Evidence: try to blag a go or ride in a 996TT X50. 450hp plus, yet probably one of the safest cars out there. No dramas.
In contrast, my brother had a Triumph Herald years ago with , at a guess, 60 hp, and that was a deathtrap on wet country roads..
Evidence: try to blag a go or ride in a 996TT X50. 450hp plus, yet probably one of the safest cars out there. No dramas.
In contrast, my brother had a Triumph Herald years ago with , at a guess, 60 hp, and that was a deathtrap on wet country roads..
I think this needs to be in terms of power to weight ratio. I think anything above 550bhp/tonne is approaching whats do-able with road tyres, road surfaces and all the rest of it. Plus, how much of that kind of performance are you going to be able to use on the road in this country? Not that much.
As the Topstuffian says, it's all about deployment.
I don't necessarily think you can have too much power per se because most cars have certain flat spots in the delivery relating to certain gears and speeds.
For example, I've noticed how Dazren's 996TT X50 has a surreal glob of schnellerhaus at crawling speed if summary warp speed is summoned in second...
Then again, in my relic variation on the blown theme, probably due to the way the ratios are stacked, the pick up from a respectable UK m-way velocity to something more Germanic in 5th seems reasonably unfeasible.
My old Cerbera 4.5 never felt overpowered, even on full attack, post-Peage toll booth, whilst on many occassions, a 928 had felt quite too torquey, despite a meagre 310-320 on tap.
So how much is too much? I guess it's all a question of the ankle joint!
I don't necessarily think you can have too much power per se because most cars have certain flat spots in the delivery relating to certain gears and speeds.
For example, I've noticed how Dazren's 996TT X50 has a surreal glob of schnellerhaus at crawling speed if summary warp speed is summoned in second...
Then again, in my relic variation on the blown theme, probably due to the way the ratios are stacked, the pick up from a respectable UK m-way velocity to something more Germanic in 5th seems reasonably unfeasible.
My old Cerbera 4.5 never felt overpowered, even on full attack, post-Peage toll booth, whilst on many occassions, a 928 had felt quite too torquey, despite a meagre 310-320 on tap.
So how much is too much? I guess it's all a question of the ankle joint!
The DJ 27 said:
I think this needs to be in terms of power to weight ratio. I think anything above 550bhp/tonne is approaching whats do-able with road tyres, road surfaces and all the rest of it. Plus, how much of that kind of performance are you going to be able to use on the road in this country? Not that much.
More power, I need more power. 700bhp/tonne, tho its all irrelevant as: 1) It doesn't matter how much you have, you still get use to it and want/need/crave more and
2) Someone has always got something faster than you have
Is it power or torque that the tyres have trouble transmitting to the road?
I have a Callaway Twin Turbo Corvette - on paper the power for a twin turbo 5.7 V8 is pants - about 430 BHP @ 4250 rpm (remember this is an old car [1990]) but the torque output is mental - 570 lbs /ft @ 2500 rpm!
That's why the b*st*rd thing was scaring the shite out of me @ 80 mph on a greasy wet worn out M25 last week. I was trying to follow a mate with a less torquey vette who had no trouble but my car was making a lot of torque @ 80 mph (just under 2000 rpm) so every time I breathed on the throttle it seemed like the car was going away from under me - good fun though, like being on an out of control rollercoaster!
I have a Callaway Twin Turbo Corvette - on paper the power for a twin turbo 5.7 V8 is pants - about 430 BHP @ 4250 rpm (remember this is an old car [1990]) but the torque output is mental - 570 lbs /ft @ 2500 rpm!
That's why the b*st*rd thing was scaring the shite out of me @ 80 mph on a greasy wet worn out M25 last week. I was trying to follow a mate with a less torquey vette who had no trouble but my car was making a lot of torque @ 80 mph (just under 2000 rpm) so every time I breathed on the throttle it seemed like the car was going away from under me - good fun though, like being on an out of control rollercoaster!
Hi derestrictor, it's fairly lairy - manufacturers quoted 4.4 sec 0-60 and 191.5 mph top end (I have a road test where a euro version, which mine is, hit 193 mph!)
I also had a 93 vette which had less power torque: 300 bhp / 340 lbs /ft @ higher revs. You could be quite mad in that in the wet (that'll be the traction control on that model then, sorely missed on my 90).
Even so the traction could be caught out if I wanted to prove a point by driving like right w*nker. Quite a scary prospect the thought of a "driver" thinking they can get away with murder in the wet just because they have gizmos like traction control and abs. You still have to have a "feel" for driving to keep out of trouble.
"Always respect the wet!"
I also had a 93 vette which had less power torque: 300 bhp / 340 lbs /ft @ higher revs. You could be quite mad in that in the wet (that'll be the traction control on that model then, sorely missed on my 90).
Even so the traction could be caught out if I wanted to prove a point by driving like right w*nker. Quite a scary prospect the thought of a "driver" thinking they can get away with murder in the wet just because they have gizmos like traction control and abs. You still have to have a "feel" for driving to keep out of trouble.
"Always respect the wet!"
cnh1990 said:
I have read the new Bugatti will have 1001 BHP in an article about peoples love of HP
quick point (not trying to be finiky,but it's important because of the way they're trying to sell the car. The Bugatti will have 1001ps which approx = 987bhp.
I think you're right to start comparing it to power/weight ratio rather than outright BHP. I.e, Bentley Arnage, 600+lbs torque, but a safe joy to drive. Equally, Cat 7 R500 = 190(ish) lbs torque, yet can be bloomin mental!
Having said THAT.....it's all about how you drive. Perhaps a different approach to the question could be "How much is too much power for driver [x]"
I think Peter Wheeler defined the bhp limits for TVR when he took a Cerbera Speed 12 home with him. I think it was published in Evo last year, that the good man commented that it was a 'mistake' to have that amount of power in a road car, making it effectively undriveable. Maybe this is one of several reasons why they never sold any to the punters who could afford the original £120K asking price.
Personally, I don't think there is any problem with big bhp cars - its more down to who is at the wheel and how they behave with it.
Personally, I don't think there is any problem with big bhp cars - its more down to who is at the wheel and how they behave with it.
The other problem which comes into play is British road traffic conditions. I find that the 350bhp of the Tamora is more than enough to hustle along, but using it is prevented much more often by slower cars, busy roads etc., than by weather, road surface etc.
I notice most are saying they want more more, but reference it to autobahns/French autoroutes. Coincidence?
I notice most are saying they want more more, but reference it to autobahns/French autoroutes. Coincidence?
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