Goodbye Perez?
Discussion
oyster said:
All that shows is what an amazing race driver Button is. To have outscored Lewis with such a speed deficit.
Agreed, that and how piss poor at qualifying he was too. Hat's off to the old fella though; slow and steadily onto the top five consistently makes for a decent point haul. Let's see if Magnusson lights a fire under him next year...Catatafish said:
oyster said:
All that shows is what an amazing race driver Button is. To have outscored Lewis with such a speed deficit.
Agreed, that and how piss poor at qualifying he was too. Hat's off to the old fella though; slow and steadily onto the top five consistently makes for a decent point haul. Let's see if Magnusson lights a fire under him next year...Do you compromise quali pace to get to a position where your race setup will last a stint, or not?
CraigyMc said:
The two things are not unrelated - the absolute fastest quali setup tends to use up tyres. The fastest (overall) race setup is often far more gentle.
Do you compromise quali pace to get to a position where your race setup will last a stint, or not?
see also the Prost/Senna years at McLaren.Do you compromise quali pace to get to a position where your race setup will last a stint, or not?
how many poles did Senna get compared to Prost? Yet the win rate was pretty similar, if not better for Prost.
CraigyMc said:
Gaz. said:
Flying Toilet said:
Cant believe Whitmarsh has lasted this long.
Likewise. I'll be genuinely surprised if he isn't axed before 2014. The lack of development speaks volumes too, McLaren have had shocking starts to the seasons of late but this year have not recovered at all.
Organisation used to be McLarens key to success, now they are pleased with a top 10 qualifying spot and a couple of points....
I'd give Whitmarsh until the end of 2015, if he hasn't performed by then, then they can bin him. As it is Mclaren are going to be going through enough changes with the new regs and new engine suppliers coming through, too much change could be fatal.
Re. development, yes it did used to be McLaren's stong point and it is a shame not seeing them try this year but, this years car is clearly a total write-off, why develop it when next year sees such massive changes? If I was in Whitmarsh's shoes I wouldn't pour good development time after bad.
Re. development, yes it did used to be McLaren's stong point and it is a shame not seeing them try this year but, this years car is clearly a total write-off, why develop it when next year sees such massive changes? If I was in Whitmarsh's shoes I wouldn't pour good development time after bad.
ajprice said:
Wasn't this years car using a different front suspension system, to understand it in preparation for the new rules, like Ferrari did last year?
Crappy aero/front wing was highlighted by Gary Anderson several times this year, moreso than the suspension.EDIT: As well as Whitmarsh, how about Michaels? f
ked things up at Williams, then went to Mclaren and, guess what...Jimbo. said:
ajprice said:
Wasn't this years car using a different front suspension system, to understand it in preparation for the new rules, like Ferrari did last year?
Crappy aero/front wing was highlighted by Gary Anderson several times this year, moreso than the suspension.EDIT: As well as Whitmarsh, how about Michaels? f
ked things up at Williams, then went to Mclaren and, guess what...The zero-keel suspension is what ajprice is talking about: Ferrari set that recent trend, although it's been an on-off thing for years in F1: it's a compromise of aero over packaging, for a small performance gain. Most of the field is now at a point with the current cars where such small gains are actually attractive because the easier things are optimised.
The front wing Anderson bangs on about simply highlights that McLaren have not needed more downforce from it, largely because the rear of the car isn't performing the way they expected or want it to. There's no point having a front wing with 120% of the downforce the rear can ever balance out.
C
ajprice said:
Wasn't this years car using a different front suspension system, to understand it in preparation for the new rules, like Ferrari did last year?
The reason given was that the 2012 car had reached the peak of it's development. They knew that, to stay on top, they'd need to find a couple of seconds over the course of the 2013 - and that just wasn't going to be forthcoming.It will be interesting to see if next year's car has allowed them to use the lessons learnt about the pull-rod suspension, or if it gets quietly dropped...
Does anyone else feel Perez has been hard done by here? I'm not his biggest fan but I really think he has been solid if unspectactular this year, I think he deserved a second season as he has shown signs of development. Just look at Grosjean - he was awful for ages but Lotus stuck by him and now it appears to be paying off.
I can't help but feel Perez is right when he talks about Mclaren needing to be a bit more humble and accept their position this year. The simple fact is they made a terrible car (after having quite a strong one at the back end of 2012 too) and have not managed to develop it over the year. Only 2 or 3 drivers on the grid can get more out of the car than it really deserves and I think even they would have struggled with this years Mclaren.
By hiring Magnussen McLaren are clearly trying to make a bold decision to kick start things within the team - but I can't help but feel they are looking in the wrong place. The drivers aren't the problem, it is the development team and management as well. Whitmarsh seems like a perfectly nice guy but one gets the impression he couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.. I bet they would have more success sacking him and hiring someone like Brawn.
I can't help but feel Perez is right when he talks about Mclaren needing to be a bit more humble and accept their position this year. The simple fact is they made a terrible car (after having quite a strong one at the back end of 2012 too) and have not managed to develop it over the year. Only 2 or 3 drivers on the grid can get more out of the car than it really deserves and I think even they would have struggled with this years Mclaren.
By hiring Magnussen McLaren are clearly trying to make a bold decision to kick start things within the team - but I can't help but feel they are looking in the wrong place. The drivers aren't the problem, it is the development team and management as well. Whitmarsh seems like a perfectly nice guy but one gets the impression he couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.. I bet they would have more success sacking him and hiring someone like Brawn.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Friday 15th November 14:08
VolvoT5 said:
Does anyone else feel Perez has been hard done by here? I'm not his biggest fan but I really think he has been solid if unspectactular this year, I think he deserved a second season as he has shown signs of development. Just look at Grosjean - he was awful for ages but Lotus stuck by him and now it appears to be paying off.
It's a bit harsh but that's F1. And to be honest, Grosjean was always quick - it was just a matter of keeping his confidence up and helping him to stop crashing. Perez, for me, has never shown that pace. Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Friday 15th November 18:03
ash73 said:
If the problem is raw speed McLaren would have known much earlier in the season, so why fire him now? All this talk of comparisons in the sim smells a bit fishy to me.
Let's not forget his superb performances in the Sauber (2nd in Malaysia iirc?).
Maybe they think Magnusson is the better long term bet and they aren't that confident about next year, so they may as well get him out there sooner rather than later.Let's not forget his superb performances in the Sauber (2nd in Malaysia iirc?).
Of course there are worse than Perez but he's never looked that special, his good times have been lucky rather than spectacular.
I remember Di Resta being a bit arsey about McLaren taking Perez and not him. Maybe he's feeling lucky now?
MartG said:
Though if certain reports are to be believed, it is actually the other way round, with Perez being described as 'arrogant' in his dealings with both McLaren and Sauber
That may be true, who knows? Either way I think it is a bit harsh for McLaren to dump him.... and to do it at such a late stage in the 'silly season' too..... they have not only binned him off but also possibly made it difficult for him to secure another drive. I get the feeling this is a bit of a desperate decision from McLaren. I hope I'm wrong but I can see them going the same way as Williams under the current management.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24952498
Seems like he has been dropped in it at the last minute shame as he has done well against Button, shame to drop him for 19 yr old kid not ready for F1 yet what is the rush with these teams getting kids in the car?
Seems like he has been dropped in it at the last minute shame as he has done well against Button, shame to drop him for 19 yr old kid not ready for F1 yet what is the rush with these teams getting kids in the car?
rallycross said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24952498
shame to drop him for 19 yr old kid not ready for F1 yet what is the rush with these teams getting kids in the car?
Is that not what yhey said about LH?shame to drop him for 19 yr old kid not ready for F1 yet what is the rush with these teams getting kids in the car?
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff