New car reveals
Discussion
Each year they reveal the Mercedes and each years I'm disappointed that it looks like something Gillette would make. Not so much the many elements of the front wing (the 'blades') as all the F1 cars have those- but the overly conservative, safe, austere, boring silver with hints of blue / green shaving gel residue. I realise they're 'the silver arrows' but they badly need to funk it up.
Eric Mc said:
God knows. I know you don't (and neither do I).
Glad you know what I do, and do not know. ;-)I may be seeing him in a few weeks, so I will ask if I do.
In the interim, I can highly recommend his book which gives an insight into his approach to design, which would indicate that it has not been designed by different groups. The tiny details, sure, but not the design philosophy of a whole car and the complexity of the whole modern aero package.
Eric Mc said:
Vaud said:
You think the RB14, headed up by Newey's famous design skills, has been designed piecemeal? Seriously?
You know, the designer who starts with pen and paper and focuses on the whole car package?
God knows. I know you don't (and neither do I).You know, the designer who starts with pen and paper and focuses on the whole car package?
If you took a moment to think about you’d realise that you just had to be wrong.
REALIST123 said:
Eric Mc said:
Vaud said:
You think the RB14, headed up by Newey's famous design skills, has been designed piecemeal? Seriously?
You know, the designer who starts with pen and paper and focuses on the whole car package?
God knows. I know you don't (and neither do I).You know, the designer who starts with pen and paper and focuses on the whole car package?
If you took a moment to think about you’d realise that you just had to be wrong.
I don't know I'm wrong in this instance. How could I?
If you can prove I'm wrong, fire away.
Thinking about something does not in itself, magic up facts.
I really do feel some people are living in some sort of fantasy world
Eric Mc said:
I'm always open to being proved wrong. Who isn't?
I don't know I'm wrong in this instance. How could I?
If you can prove I'm wrong, fire away.
Thinking about something does not in itself, magic up facts.
I really do feel some people are living in some sort of fantasy world
Have you read Newey's book? It gives you deep insight into his design philosophy. Of course there is a tiny chance that he has discarded that 40+ years approach over one winter break in favour of disconnected design by component... but then then again, on the balance of probabilities, he hasn't?I don't know I'm wrong in this instance. How could I?
If you can prove I'm wrong, fire away.
Thinking about something does not in itself, magic up facts.
I really do feel some people are living in some sort of fantasy world
‘Limited Edition’ livery... how exciting and pointless.
Anyway....
I don’t expect the rest of the grid reveals to display anything that different from what we’ve seen so far.
My personal view is the Halo is a big aesthetic mess which asssesed against threat and risk is total overkill. They look absolutely awful and have probably produced the worst looking F1 cars to date.
Then there is the design of the cars in general. These are not good looking cas. The aero, whilst all clever does nothing for the looks. What happened to regulating rules to help airflow for passing?
I will still watch every race. I enjoy the technical aspects of the sport, but hope for good/interesting races. Hope for a strong year for Ferrari.
I love the sport, but you can still grumble at the state of it.
Anyway....
I don’t expect the rest of the grid reveals to display anything that different from what we’ve seen so far.
My personal view is the Halo is a big aesthetic mess which asssesed against threat and risk is total overkill. They look absolutely awful and have probably produced the worst looking F1 cars to date.
Then there is the design of the cars in general. These are not good looking cas. The aero, whilst all clever does nothing for the looks. What happened to regulating rules to help airflow for passing?
I will still watch every race. I enjoy the technical aspects of the sport, but hope for good/interesting races. Hope for a strong year for Ferrari.
I love the sport, but you can still grumble at the state of it.
Eric Mc said:
REALIST123 said:
Eric Mc said:
Vaud said:
You think the RB14, headed up by Newey's famous design skills, has been designed piecemeal? Seriously?
You know, the designer who starts with pen and paper and focuses on the whole car package?
God knows. I know you don't (and neither do I).You know, the designer who starts with pen and paper and focuses on the whole car package?
If you took a moment to think about you’d realise that you just had to be wrong.
I don't know I'm wrong in this instance. How could I?
If you can prove I'm wrong, fire away.
Thinking about something does not in itself, magic up facts.
I really do feel some people are living in some sort of fantasy world
Making a small change in one area has significant effects elsewhere, this is especially the case with aero.
Even on a 1980's F1 car, changing the front wing angle 0.5 degree will affect the downforce of the whole car, changing the efficiency of the tunnels and rear wing, so it not only changes the front downforce, it changes the overall balance and the amount of rear downforce generated by the rear wing. The front wings on the last generation of ground effect cars didn't produce much downforce (some cars didn't have a front wing at all), they were trim tabs for directing airflow into the tunnels and were used to set the balance of the aero, moving the centre of pressure to suit the driver or circuit.
Anyone who suggests the car is not designed as a package doesn't understand how racing cars work. It's why a front wing change of design can have such a huge effect in overall performance, both positive and negative. The job of the front wing is not only to generate downforce, its main job is to direct airflow to the rest of the car. One thing it does is generate a vortex down the side of the car, which seals off the underfloor area so the air under the car cant spill out the sides. It's basically creating a ground effect car with skirts, but its the airflow vortex that is the sidepod and skirt, not a physical piece of bodywork as was used in the 80's.
The air from the front of the car is worked as it passes down the car, it doesn't magically find itself in the cooling ducts or to the rear wing, it is sent there by the aero shape of the car. That affects things like how large your cooling package has to be, how much drag that produces, how heavy it is, where it is placed, how much power it requires to power the coolant flow to meet the heat exchange capacity, how large your brake ducts are, what shape they are determines how efficient the cooling and aero is........on and on it goes.
ash73 said:
jsf said:
Anyone who suggests the car is not designed as a package doesn't understand how racing cars work.
I remember chatting with someone at Williams a while back and he said the biggest problem they had was, despite each department having incredibly bright people working in them, they never spoke to each other.
ks.
Eric Mc said:
jsf said:
Sorry, but that's bks.
Yeah, what would a Williams worker know about what goes on at Williams.ks.Even basics like the wheel nut and hub are designed around feedback from the pit crews, with the air guns designed to maximise the interface of the drive side of the nut and the pitch and angle of the thread.
jsf said:
Eric Mc said:
jsf said:
Sorry, but that's bks.
Yeah, what would a Williams worker know about what goes on at Williams.ks.Even basics like the wheel nut and hub are designed around feedback from the pit crews, with the air guns designed to maximise the interface of the drive side of the nut and the pitch and angle of the thread.
If an insider at Williams points out that there is poor communication between different parts of the design team, I would tend to believe them rather than somebody telling me that I think differently, the truth will change.
F1 teams like to portray themselves as the epitome of slick team work and genius design. In reality, like any competitive operation, they are a team of people, many with strong and forceful egos and differences of opinion. A smart team harnesses these differences and the energy they create to make a winning team. Looking at Williams over the past 20 odd years, a slick, efficient and successful team is not what I see.
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