Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?
Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
I would add Lauda and remove Hamilton from that list, Lewis did very little in an average car, Stewart won races in cars that were not amazingly better than the rest, Clark managed to keep Lotus's going for long enough to win titles and races and Lauda proved that sheer talent is not the only way you win and came back from near death to do so again.
If Lewis had trounced Button, won races in that McLaren or ragged it like Alonso did the Ferrari's, I would have more inkling to put him up there.
because he has one thing a lot of peoples GOATS like Schuey and Senna do not have, fairness. Lewis is a very fair and decent driver in comparison to them, he is ruthless yes, but who isn't.
I still feel being beaten by Rosberg drops him down a touch, no one ever got near Clark or Stewart in equal cars, even Moss struggled to beat Fangio in the Merc and he is lauded as a hero in Britain.
Lauda also gets in due to pure heroism, what that man went through to come back and win a title is staggering and then to come back again, no-one will ever likely do that again.
Records are far too easy to break now, wins, poles etc, it's not modern drivers fault, but I think if you remember or recall how much tougher it was to win in the past it's hard to put modern drivers ahead of those who risked their lives far more, drove far more difficult cars around far tougher tracks.
It’s all if, buts, opinion. Rosberg won his title fare and square. Lewis’s engine goes the distance in Malaysia and Nico has no titles. If Lewis had trounced Button, won races in that McLaren or ragged it like Alonso did the Ferrari's, I would have more inkling to put him up there.
because he has one thing a lot of peoples GOATS like Schuey and Senna do not have, fairness. Lewis is a very fair and decent driver in comparison to them, he is ruthless yes, but who isn't.
I still feel being beaten by Rosberg drops him down a touch, no one ever got near Clark or Stewart in equal cars, even Moss struggled to beat Fangio in the Merc and he is lauded as a hero in Britain.
Lauda also gets in due to pure heroism, what that man went through to come back and win a title is staggering and then to come back again, no-one will ever likely do that again.
Records are far too easy to break now, wins, poles etc, it's not modern drivers fault, but I think if you remember or recall how much tougher it was to win in the past it's hard to put modern drivers ahead of those who risked their lives far more, drove far more difficult cars around far tougher tracks.
Button was no slouch. You ignore Lewis’s performance against Alonso at Mclaren... the rest everyone will continue to argue about...
I think records are very difficult you break indeed.
When was the last time the poles/wins/WDC/podiums record was broken ?
It’s being celebrated by those in the know precisely because it extremely hard.
In the old days, there was a limited pool of drivers that Fangio/Strewart/Clarke et al where measured by. Sure, they where head and shoulders above their peers but these days there there is a very large pool of drivers who have been honed / analysed to within an inch of their lives. There are no gentlemen drivers in F1 today.
It certainly looks like there are some posters that just don’t like Lewis. No matter how many champs he wins or how many years he keeps on delivering.
Yesterday’s performance was worthy of any of the greats even though he didn’t need to do it. The WDC was in the bag. Bottas was nowhere. No need to take any risks but he won by a country mile with a car that was nowhere.
Im sure we will be having the same discussion in a years time when Lewis has bagged an eighth WDC.
When was the last time the poles/wins/WDC/podiums record was broken ?
It’s being celebrated by those in the know precisely because it extremely hard.
In the old days, there was a limited pool of drivers that Fangio/Strewart/Clarke et al where measured by. Sure, they where head and shoulders above their peers but these days there there is a very large pool of drivers who have been honed / analysed to within an inch of their lives. There are no gentlemen drivers in F1 today.
It certainly looks like there are some posters that just don’t like Lewis. No matter how many champs he wins or how many years he keeps on delivering.
Yesterday’s performance was worthy of any of the greats even though he didn’t need to do it. The WDC was in the bag. Bottas was nowhere. No need to take any risks but he won by a country mile with a car that was nowhere.
Im sure we will be having the same discussion in a years time when Lewis has bagged an eighth WDC.
Edited by Exige77 on Monday 16th November 18:32
Gad-Westy said:
LukeBrown66 said:
If Lewis had trounced Button, won races in that McLaren or ragged it like Alonso did the Ferrari's, I would have more inkling to put him up there.
You keep saying this. Which McLaren did Lewis not win races in? 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544
By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
Nampahc Niloc said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544
By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
It is madness for him to be knighted for driving the fastest car in what is essentially a circle on a Sunday afternoon. Has April first been put back due to Covid-19?By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
The letter continues: "It is clear that Lewis has demonstrated his outstanding achievement in his field... He has used this and his own experience to support others and he is a credit to the United Kingdom."
He doesn't choose to live in the UK, I am unsure about his tax status, Brundle claims that Hamilton will pay a lot of tax, but either way, he does not deserve to be knighted. He has done far less than other sports stars who haven't been knighted.
Nampahc Niloc said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544
By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
I find it frustrating that they waste so many column inches on unsubstantiated carp about money, & where he lives, but I don't recall Jackie Stewart getting similar treatment, even though he naffed off to Switzerland asap & is famous for being "careful" with money. He was awarded his CBE & knighthood for services to motor racing, no mention of charity or community work etc, which some seem to feel is the reason Lewis only has an MBE. Although I've no interest in the honours system,there seems to be a yawning disparity here...By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
MarkwG said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544
By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
I find it frustrating that they waste so many column inches on unsubstantiated carp about money, & where he lives, but I don't recall Jackie Stewart getting similar treatment, even though he naffed off to Switzerland asap & is famous for being "careful" with money. He was awarded his CBE & knighthood for services to motor racing, no mention of charity or community work etc, which some seem to feel is the reason Lewis only has an MBE. Although I've no interest in the honours system,there seems to be a yawning disparity here...By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
MarkwG said:
I find it frustrating that they waste so many column inches on unsubstantiated carp about money, & where he lives, but I don't recall Jackie Stewart getting similar treatment, even though he naffed off to Switzerland asap & is famous for being "careful" with money. He was awarded his CBE & knighthood for services to motor racing, no mention of charity or community work etc, which some seem to feel is the reason Lewis only has an MBE. Although I've no interest in the honours system,there seems to be a yawning disparity here...
Since his Mrs became ill, he's started a charity for what ails her. Not all that much I suppose. On the other hand, his campaign for greater safety in motor sport saved a number of lives. He stuck to it despite lots of criticism in the motoring press - the quality of which was rather like social media today. Motor Sport's editorials were outrageous, so much so that I stopped my subscription. Good on him for facing down the established faces.I too think the honours system is outdated. I'm with Shelley - Titles are tinsel. (Not one of his best lines it has to be said.) However, I reckon a lordship might be more useful, where he can vote and work for what he believes in.
Stewart careful with money. That's something of an understatement.
Halmyre said:
MarkwG said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544
By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
I find it frustrating that they waste so many column inches on unsubstantiated carp about money, & where he lives, but I don't recall Jackie Stewart getting similar treatment, even though he naffed off to Switzerland asap & is famous for being "careful" with money. He was awarded his CBE & knighthood for services to motor racing, no mention of charity or community work etc, which some seem to feel is the reason Lewis only has an MBE. Although I've no interest in the honours system,there seems to be a yawning disparity here...By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
MarkwG said:
Yep, I get that,& a very worthwhile campaign that he suffered a lot of aggro for, but it's still more inward looking, than outward - hence the "services to motor racing" justification. I'm not so much arguing against Stewart, as why not Hamilton, & why the rehash of the tax nonsense, which was really a storm in a teacup. It strikes me as mealy mouthed, considering the fawning others such as Stewart & Mansell get - which is not to denigrate either, just why the contrast? "Damned with faint praise" perhaps.
Yes, surely where they paid tax is the same for all of them?If Stewart lived in Switzerland and Mansell moved to the Isle of Man!
Anyway I'm sure Lewis is much more interested in having his 7th title - very impressive!
Looking forward to number 8.
LukeBrown66 said:
I would add Lauda and remove Hamilton from that list, Lewis did very little in an average car, Stewart won races in cars that were not amazingly better than the rest, Clark managed to keep Lotus's going for long enough to win titles and races and Lauda proved that sheer talent is not the only way you win and came back from near death to do so again.
If Lewis had trounced Button, won races in that McLaren or ragged it like Alonso did the Ferrari's, I would have more inkling to put him up there.
because he has one thing a lot of peoples GOATS like Schuey and Senna do not have, fairness. Lewis is a very fair and decent driver in comparison to them, he is ruthless yes, but who isn't.
I still feel being beaten by Rosberg drops him down a touch, no one ever got near Clark or Stewart in equal cars, even Moss struggled to beat Fangio in the Merc and he is lauded as a hero in Britain.
Lauda also gets in due to pure heroism, what that man went through to come back and win a title is staggering and then to come back again, no-one will ever likely do that again.
Records are far too easy to break now, wins, poles etc, it's not modern drivers fault, but I think if you remember or recall how much tougher it was to win in the past it's hard to put modern drivers ahead of those who risked their lives far more, drove far more difficult cars around far tougher tracks.
You have your view that Hamilton did little in an average car, Alonso's view is "He was able to win with a dominant car, with a good car like 2010 or 2012, or with bad cars like 2009 and 2011. Not all the champions can say that" Wikipedia. And perhaps you should remember that Clark and Stewart both only drove for one team. In that regard I think Stewart's record is actually far better, however Clark won championships because he was in a Lotus and he lost championships because he was in a Lotus.If Lewis had trounced Button, won races in that McLaren or ragged it like Alonso did the Ferrari's, I would have more inkling to put him up there.
because he has one thing a lot of peoples GOATS like Schuey and Senna do not have, fairness. Lewis is a very fair and decent driver in comparison to them, he is ruthless yes, but who isn't.
I still feel being beaten by Rosberg drops him down a touch, no one ever got near Clark or Stewart in equal cars, even Moss struggled to beat Fangio in the Merc and he is lauded as a hero in Britain.
Lauda also gets in due to pure heroism, what that man went through to come back and win a title is staggering and then to come back again, no-one will ever likely do that again.
Records are far too easy to break now, wins, poles etc, it's not modern drivers fault, but I think if you remember or recall how much tougher it was to win in the past it's hard to put modern drivers ahead of those who risked their lives far more, drove far more difficult cars around far tougher tracks.
I think Niki Lauda was an utter, utter legend, but I just don't have him at the same level of pure, natural talent that Clark or Stewart etc had.
Your last couple of sentences don't make sense to me. Records are easy to break? Hamilton has had to be at the top of his game for 14 years. He had to be beating double world champs in equal equipment in his first year. The numbers of wins, poles and championships just get bigger. Most people can't maintain the interest for long enough. Hamilton is 35, he's been racing for 27 of those years, or 28 if you count the model cars.
I don't agree that cars were tougher to drive in the past, because (perhaps sadly) nowadays we can go to Goodwood and see older, privateer drivers setting faster times in those cars. I don't see that happening in the future with current F1 cars. God bless the people who built and drove the cars of the 50s and 60s, but nowadays you need 2 factories, 2,000 people, teams of scientists and the budgets of small nations to win.
Nobody is trying to compare the drivers of different eras, it can't be done, but I do think we can talk in terms of natural talent, and I have my list.
TheAngryDog said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544
By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
It is madness for him to be knighted for driving the fastest car in what is essentially a circle on a Sunday afternoon. Has April first been put back due to Covid-19?By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
The letter continues: "It is clear that Lewis has demonstrated his outstanding achievement in his field... He has used this and his own experience to support others and he is a credit to the United Kingdom."
He doesn't choose to live in the UK, I am unsure about his tax status, Brundle claims that Hamilton will pay a lot of tax, but either way, he does not deserve to be knighted. He has done far less than other sports stars who haven't been knighted.
Seems that flying the British flag is the main requirement to me?
RemarkLima said:
TheAngryDog said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54965544
By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
It is madness for him to be knighted for driving the fastest car in what is essentially a circle on a Sunday afternoon. Has April first been put back due to Covid-19?By biggest take away from that article is that there is an all party parliamentary group for Formula 1!
The letter continues: "It is clear that Lewis has demonstrated his outstanding achievement in his field... He has used this and his own experience to support others and he is a credit to the United Kingdom."
He doesn't choose to live in the UK, I am unsure about his tax status, Brundle claims that Hamilton will pay a lot of tax, but either way, he does not deserve to be knighted. He has done far less than other sports stars who haven't been knighted.
Seems that flying the British flag is the main requirement to me?
The British guy that beat the unbeatable German in terms of WDC's. Seems worthy of the establishment to cement his Britishness via a British honour, even if he does wisely choose to spend a good deal of his time in more pleasant places.
ch37 said:
JayK12 said:
Great comments from Vettel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l7eA06gKA4
Vettel said in 1 minute 20 seconds what has taken 1000 posts of going round in circles in this one thread alone.Adrian W said:
Taz46 said:
Any one else agree with me that Lewis has the ability to be regarded as the greatest of all time? Seems to me he can get the car near or on the front regardless whether the cars 100 % (with the exception of the beginning of last year but let's face it the mclaren was a complete dog of a car) most talented driver on the grid my opinion, what's yours!?
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