Redbull not to use Renault engines in 2016

[Flying Toilet]

Scuffers said:

mollytherocker said:

Ive been watching this and I guess it was time for them to hand the engine building over to Tag as they are strapped for cash.

Hopefully, on the face of it, they can dial in some extra power by winding up the movement of the second hand engines.

Not sure that the battery power will be enough though, unless they are automatic.

Eh?

Care to explain that again?

And this sums it all up.

[Mark-C]

Dele said:

There you go then, TAG Heuer branded Renault units...


Timing is Everything. We will drive forward with TAG Heuer power unit in 2016.

Bloody hell - there’s a lot of marketing bks and zero technical info there. No surprise really

[MissChief]

Looks like Christian has caught Ronspeak from Mr Dennis.

[NRS]

Who are RB going to complain about if/ when the engine is still not as good as the Ferrari and Mercedes engines?

[Teppic]

Megaflow said:

aeropilot said:

Given TAG had to admit a few years back that they were using rebranded Seiko movements in one of it's expensive Swiss watches, a rebranded Renault engine is right up their street....

I'm really looking forward to Horners response when something goes wrong...

Expect lots of "It cracked under pressure" comments.

[FourWheelDrift]

Interviewer "So Christian neither car started the Australian Grand Prix, what went wrong"
Horner - "We forgot to change the power unit's internal clock to Australian eastern time. They started up perfectly 10 hours later"

[glazbagun]

That must be a really big sponsorship deal. Did LVMH do a price-for-price swap at Mclaren with Moet/Johnnie Walker? For all the talk of F1's demise as a marketing platform in this social media age, it obviously has a high value in some sectors.

[andyps]

glazbagun said:

That must be a really big sponsorship deal. Did LVMH do a price-for-price swap at Mclaren with Moet/Johnnie Walker? For all the talk of F1's demise as a marketing platform in this social media age, it obviously has a high value in some sectors.

Ron has said that the deal they now have with Moet Hennesey is worth a lot more than the TAG Heuer deal was.

[rubystone]

Vaud said:

Focus is thought to be good, obsession is thought to be bad. But basically they're the same thing. And then there's ego. Ego is a core ingredient of ambition. Ambition and ego are close bed-fellows. And, like everybody I suppose, I seek happiness. It's an uncomplicated objective. I don't see happiness as laughing or clapping your hands. I see it as the opposite of unhappiness, the opposite of anger, of depression. If you can get into that state of mind, you're going to be far more productive."

“It is certainly not as fast as we would like it to be, but it’s early days and we’ve still got quite a bit of testing to do and quite a bit of development to reflect through into our pace.”

“At this time of the year all our testing is centred around optimising the car for the race. But the inevitable publicity that surrounds test performance sees some of the less experienced teams or some of the teams that are seeking money actually running their cars with the objective of doing one fast lap. Of course, one fast lap is very important when it comes to qualifying but it is relatively unimportant when it comes to the race. And the disciplined teams are working hard on a sustainable pace.”

All genuine quotes.

He's a top man. Driven, yes, passionate, yes, professional, yes. Bland, nope. Generates huge loyalty too. Possibly second only to FW in that area.

[rubystone]

ralphrj said:

I think you are overstating TAGs involvement in the turbo engine of the 1980s. The engine was entirely designed and manufactured by Porsche. TAG simply paid for it and put their name on it. There is no TAG engine/racing company so no reason for them to prohibit TAG Heuer from rebranding another engine.

Woah woah woah. This is Pistonheads. This isn't a place for sensible, accurate posts. Get ye to Autosport Nostalgia forum and never darken these doors again....

[MartG]

PW said:

I've seen nothing that says next year's engine is going to be a huge step forward, so I guess they're going to be awfully quiet next year.

A lot depends on how much Mario Ilien can do/is allowed to do to the engine supplied by Renault. Will it be classed as a new engine supplier, so not limited by tokens until homologated ? Will it just use the IC engine part of the Renault package and replace all the hybrid stuff with new ?

[marshall100]

PW said:

It's interesting.

Red Bull's PR strategy of the last 2 years has been to blame the engine for their woes.

I've seen nothing that says next year's engine is going to be a huge step forward, so I guess they're going to be awfully quiet next year.

If there are problems but Red Bull aren't saying it, the headlines in the press will still be that the TAG-branded engine failed.

Are they just hoping there's no such thing as bad publicity?

Why blame the engine when you can now blame the timing gear instead?

[andyps]

MartG said:

A lot depends on how much Mario Ilien can do/is allowed to do to the engine supplied by Renault. Will it be classed as a new engine supplier, so not limited by tokens until homologated ? Will it just use the IC engine part of the Renault package and replace all the hybrid stuff with new ?

Pretty sure the rules won't allow them to class it as a completely new engine so it will be limited by the tokens restriction. If they could claim it to be a new engine they would be much better to do that in 2017 to get a full year of unrestricted development on the engine before tokens kick in, although as Honda proved, even doing that is very restrictive. But at the end of the day it is a Renault engine and therefore a development based on the 2015 with all that entails in terms of tokens - can't remember what this week's new confirmed about the numbers allowed.

[thegreenhell]

andyps said:

MartG said:

A lot depends on how much Mario Ilien can do/is allowed to do to the engine supplied by Renault. Will it be classed as a new engine supplier, so not limited by tokens until homologated ? Will it just use the IC engine part of the Renault package and replace all the hybrid stuff with new ?

Pretty sure the rules won't allow them to class it as a completely new engine so it will be limited by the tokens restriction. If they could claim it to be a new engine they would be much better to do that in 2017 to get a full year of unrestricted development on the engine before tokens kick in, although as Honda proved, even doing that is very restrictive. But at the end of the day it is a Renault engine and therefore a development based on the 2015 with all that entails in terms of tokens - can't remember what this week's new confirmed about the numbers allowed.

Ilmor will be closely tied to the official Renault PU development, so Red Bull will have the same PU as the works Renault team. The TAG-Heuer tie-up is purely branding. There will be no development divergence by Red Bull.

[Vaud]

thegreenhell said:

Ilmor will be closely tied to the official Renault PU development,

Will they? I thought the Ilmor route had been dropped by Renault in favour of the in house approach?

[RYH64E]

TAG Heuer must be confident that next year's engine will be a lot better than this year's.

[Scuffers]

RYH64E said:

TAG Heuer must be confident that next year's engine will be a lot better than this year's.

that's not really a risk though is it?

the problem is even if it's 10% better, Merc/Ferrari/Honda could all be 20% better.

in racing, standing still actually means going backwards.

[rdjohn]

NRS said:

Who are RB going to complain about if/ when the engine is still not as good as the Ferrari and Mercedes engines?

The standard was set during the Ford / Cosworth era.

When the engine wins, it's a Ford, if it goes pop, it's a Cosworth.

RB took 4 championships without mentioning Renault, but the problems in the last two years have all been with Renault.

The die is cast, if it is good it will be TAG who will get a mention, if it blows up, it will be just another Renault failure. RBR exists to sell fizzy drinks and so has to be immune from any criticism.

[thegreenhell]

Vaud said:

thegreenhell said:

Ilmor will be closely tied to the official Renault PU development,

Will they? I thought the Ilmor route had been dropped by Renault in favour of the in house approach?

According to Autosport, Renault and Ilmor increase their working relationship in Formula 1

[Vaud]

thegreenhell said:

According to Autosport, Renault and Ilmor increase their working relationship in Formula 1

Ah thanks, I had missed that.

So looks likely that the RB push to use Ilmor consulting has proven right...