The Official 2018 Monaco Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[Mr_Thyroid]

Sam993 said:

I find this situation amusing, unnecessary st storm created by outraged nobodies.

And this makes you a better person because you don't care about being cheated out of a legitimate race?

[Graveworm]

Mr_Thyroid said:

But the issue is that all this was done with the knowledge that Ocon would move out of the way - it wasn't Ocon deciding what was best for his own strategy, Mercedes had spoken to him beforehand .

At risk of teh facts getting in the way of things. Force India deputy team principal Bob Fearnley denied his team was ordered to let Hamilton through, saying Ocon would also have let Ferrari star Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull’s Ricciardo through rather than fight to hold them off and risk deteriorating his tyres on a one-stop strategy.

[Sam993]

Mr_Thyroid said:

Sam993 said:

I find this situation amusing, unnecessary st storm created by outraged nobodies.

And this makes you a better person because you don't care about being cheated out of a legitimate race?

Team orders are a fact of life. Besides, where does the rule book say that drivers shouldn't give up position if they think they are slower and someone else might gain from being in front? It reminds me of this year's Indy 500 James Davison/Takuma Sato situation had Davison let Sato through (being the slower car) they would't have crashed.

[Stan the Bat]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I would have never guessed Williams had one

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44309487

The article said they performed better at Monaco last weekend,I must have missed that.

[kambites]

Mr_Thyroid said:

But the issue is that all this was done with the knowledge that Ocon would move out of the way - it wasn't Ocon deciding what was best for his own strategy, Mercedes had spoken to him beforehand and therefore when Hamilton pitted early he was safe in the knowledge that he wouldn't be held up by the Force India.

This was my question above. How do you know that - has it been stated by the teams that this was the case or are people just inventing conspiracies? I haven't seen anything to indicate it's not the latter.

I'm struggling to understand what he would have gained by trying to keep a much faster car on much newer tyres which he wasn't actually racing against behind him.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 31st May 19:27

[anonymous-user]

kambites said:

This was my question above. How do you know that - has it been stated by the teams that this was the case or are people just inventing conspiracies? I haven't seen anything to indicate it's not the latter.

I'm struggling to understand what he would have gained by trying to keep a much faster car on much newer tyres which he wasn't actually racing against behind him.

Edited by kambites on Thursday 31st May 19:27

There is a thing called Google.

It's common fact that Toto gave that call to Force India.

Makes it even worse when the Force India team then state the opposite.

Perhaps they should have spoken about what to say to the press before making a fool of themselves.

Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 31st May 19:55

[anonymous-user]

Stan the Bat said:

The article said they performed better at Monaco last weekend,I must have missed that.

Was that the 2008 race

[kambites]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

There is a thing called Google.

Which by its very nature is as full of speculative bullst as Pistonheads. The question was specifically is there anything explicitly published by either team stating it?

The answer might well be "yes" but I can't find any official publications or actual recorded interview footage. Even if Mercedes did ask them to let their car through, I can't imagine why they wouldn't have done so anyway. I think there would be more of a question to answer had they intentionally blocked another car to their own detriment to support Mercedes.

ETA: Slightly off the immediate topic (and rather irrelevant from a sportsmanship point of view), but if Mercedes did force them to pull over, would that actually be against the rules?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 31st May 20:29

[kambites]

Having read a bit more, does the Austrian media quote Wolff verbatim anywhere... is the implication that they asked whether FI would let him through (while deciding whether to pit Hamilton) or that they pitted him and then afterwards demanded to be let by?

Obviously even the former could be viewed as an implicit demand given the connection between the teams.

[anonymous-user]

kambites said:

Having read a bit more, does the Austrian media quote Wolff verbatim anywhere... is the implication that they asked whether FI would let him through (while deciding whether to pit Hamilton) or that they pitted him and then afterwards demanded to be let by?

Obviously even the former could be viewed as an implicit demand given the connection between the teams.

As you have mentioned there is no rule for another team to not be allowed to back off but I would have presumed the FIA would have never thought this would happen.

Perhaps if it was not so blatant then no one would have noticed. Or perhaps Ocon wanted the World to see he had to back off.

I would imagine that Mercedes would not want to mention what happened. It was said that Toto stated they gave this order to Force India and looking at the footage it is clear he was told to back off.

It might not be against the rules but it is against what the sport should be about.

Imagine the great drivers of the past being in slower cars just getting out of the way of the top teams at the time.

Mercedes and Ferrari especially have too much power.

Hopefully more engine suppliers can be taken into F1 so we don't have works teams asking customer teams to get out of the way.

[kambites]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Mercedes and Ferrari especially have too much power.

I certainly can't disagree with that bit.

[thegreenhell]

It says a lot for the rest of the GP that such a non-event is still being discussed. It's time to unsub from this thread.

[Derek Smith]

kambites said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Mercedes and Ferrari especially have too much power.

I certainly can't disagree with that bit.

As the RBs at Monaco left the red and silver cars for dead, do they have too much downforce, too much aero, too much chassis?

[kambites]

Derek Smith said:

As the RBs at Monaco left the red and silver cars for dead, do they have too much downforce, too much aero, too much chassis?

I think he meant political power, not engine power.

[NRS]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

kambites said:

Having read a bit more, does the Austrian media quote Wolff verbatim anywhere... is the implication that they asked whether FI would let him through (while deciding whether to pit Hamilton) or that they pitted him and then afterwards demanded to be let by?

Obviously even the former could be viewed as an implicit demand given the connection between the teams.

As you have mentioned there is no rule for another team to not be allowed to back off but I would have presumed the FIA would have never thought this would happen.

Perhaps if it was not so blatant then no one would have noticed. Or perhaps Ocon wanted the World to see he had to back off.

I would imagine that Mercedes would not want to mention what happened. It was said that Toto stated they gave this order to Force India and looking at the footage it is clear he was told to back off.

It might not be against the rules but it is against what the sport should be about.

Imagine the great drivers of the past being in slower cars just getting out of the way of the top teams at the time.

Mercedes and Ferrari especially have too much power.

Hopefully more engine suppliers can be taken into F1 so we don't have works teams asking customer teams to get out of the way.

The only way Ocon could have beaten Hamilton was if there was a red flag and thus free tyre change. Otherwise he would always lose the position due to needing to do a pitstop. I'm certain the probability of a red flag is far less than someone crashing into you trying desperately to pass.

[KevinCamaroSS]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

It might not be against the rules but it is against what the sport should be about.

Oh dear, you don't actually think F1 is still a sport do you?

[rdjohn]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

There is a thing called Google.

It's common fact that Toto gave that call to Force India.

Makes it even worse when the Force India team then state the opposite.

Perhaps they should have spoken about what to say to the press before making a fool of themselves.

Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Thursday 31st May 19:55

So Google blocks all fake news stories, Who would have thought that?

Far more believable that Ocon, being a very smart kid, knows exactly how the world spins.

His seat is probably supported by a very hefty discount on the PU that is putting his star into ascendancy. His aspiration has to be a seat in the big team. Why would anyone need to speak with him?

I would imagine that his race engineer said nothing more than “HAM is catching you quickly on fresh tyres”. I very much doubt he would need to be reminded that he was actually racing BOT -10, and ALO +5, at the time.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/wp-content/uploads/...

[Europa1]

rdjohn said:

I would imagine that his race engineer said nothing more than “HAM is catching you quickly on fresh tyres”.

I would imagine he said a little more - in all the radio transmissions I have heard played during races, none of the engineers speak in television captions: they use full names.

[Sam993]

rdjohn said:

So Google blocks all fake news stories, Who would have thought that?

Do they really? I hope not.

[anonymous-user]

NRS said:

The only way Ocon could have beaten Hamilton was if there was a red flag and thus free tyre change. Otherwise he would always lose the position due to needing to do a pitstop. I'm certain the probability of a red flag is far less than someone crashing into you trying desperately to pass.

That’s all fairly obvious. The whole thing is just another indicator of how little about actual racing F1 has become.