Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes
Discussion
MarkwG said:
But that's called race craft: the winners have thought through every combination & have a strategy to deal with it, before they get to the grid. I agree he's been a good team player, Mercedes have regularly thanked him for that, & ultimately, that's what they pay both of their drivers for. However, he managed to convert maximum points into no points again, though, by fluffing the start. Dithering is for grannies in post office queues, not a grand prix...
I would say he converted it to -7 points yesterday because he lost Lewis a potential win by his poor start and track positioning.MustangGT said:
MarkwG said:
But that's called race craft: the winners have thought through every combination & have a strategy to deal with it, before they get to the grid. I agree he's been a good team player, Mercedes have regularly thanked him for that, & ultimately, that's what they pay both of their drivers for. However, he managed to convert maximum points into no points again, though, by fluffing the start. Dithering is for grannies in post office queues, not a grand prix...
I would say he converted it to -7 points yesterday because he lost Lewis a potential win by his poor start and track positioning.MustangGT said:
MarkwG said:
But that's called race craft: the winners have thought through every combination & have a strategy to deal with it, before they get to the grid. I agree he's been a good team player, Mercedes have regularly thanked him for that, & ultimately, that's what they pay both of their drivers for. However, he managed to convert maximum points into no points again, though, by fluffing the start. Dithering is for grannies in post office queues, not a grand prix...
I would say he converted it to -7 points yesterday because he lost Lewis a potential win by his poor start and track positioning.SturdyHSV said:
I'm inclined to agree Valterri isn't a naturally agressive 'racer' as is needed to be a champion, but I can see the difficulty in that opening run to turn 1.
At the speed that it is happening, the drivers are surely mostly working on instinct, there isn't time to consciously weigh up and evaluate various defensive / offensive strategies etc. whilst judging where you think multiple cars will move, what line they'll take, whether they'll run wide, brake late / early etc.
I think it would largely have to work on instinct in order to be able to make the decisive moves quickly enough and so on.
Valterri is a team player, and knows that it's crucial Lewis beats Max. I think part of the issue in the run to turn 1, is Valterri is unable to just race instinctively, because he has to consciously think and judge what Lewis is going to do, and how he can be a good team mate and help him get an advantage over Max.
I think the run down to turn run was as simple as a bit of forced conscious thought dulling his reactions / edge. Lewis was alongside instead of behind, so now he's thinking he needs to give Lewis space but also defend against Max but ensure he doesn't get mixed up with either driver through turn 1 etc. or push Max onto the grass, as this was clarified by the stewards before the race.
I just think that forced conscious thought took him out of the necessary instinctive racing mindset, and led to it all happening too fast and ultimately no real decision being made, he just sort of did nothing.
It was 9 seconds from the race start to the point where Max moved up the outside and kept the racing line, god knows what Bottas was thinking in those 9 seconds, he had a good enough start and an absolute age in racing terms to make the correct decision.At the speed that it is happening, the drivers are surely mostly working on instinct, there isn't time to consciously weigh up and evaluate various defensive / offensive strategies etc. whilst judging where you think multiple cars will move, what line they'll take, whether they'll run wide, brake late / early etc.
I think it would largely have to work on instinct in order to be able to make the decisive moves quickly enough and so on.
Valterri is a team player, and knows that it's crucial Lewis beats Max. I think part of the issue in the run to turn 1, is Valterri is unable to just race instinctively, because he has to consciously think and judge what Lewis is going to do, and how he can be a good team mate and help him get an advantage over Max.
I think the run down to turn run was as simple as a bit of forced conscious thought dulling his reactions / edge. Lewis was alongside instead of behind, so now he's thinking he needs to give Lewis space but also defend against Max but ensure he doesn't get mixed up with either driver through turn 1 etc. or push Max onto the grass, as this was clarified by the stewards before the race.
I just think that forced conscious thought took him out of the necessary instinctive racing mindset, and led to it all happening too fast and ultimately no real decision being made, he just sort of did nothing.
MarkwG said:
Stan the Bat said:
Just not a "racer".
Perhaps just doesn't have that final 2% that makes the difference? I personally feel he's earned his spurs over the years, more than many others, but hasn't quite got that last bit of fire he needs to win a championship.I’d suggest being teammate to Lewis Hamilton (or Max), makes Sundays rather a big ask for anyone less than a genius though.
paulguitar said:
It seems to me Valteri is very, very quick over one lap, but is often, perhaps usually, made to look ordinary on Sundays.
I’d suggest being teammate to Lewis Hamilton (or Max), makes Sundays rather a big ask for anyone less than a genius though.
I don't expect him to match Lewis, especially over a season, i do expect him to get the basics right, which he has failed to do repeatedly.I’d suggest being teammate to Lewis Hamilton (or Max), makes Sundays rather a big ask for anyone less than a genius though.
paulguitar said:
I’d suggest being teammate to Lewis Hamilton (or Max), makes Sundays rather a big ask for anyone less than a genius though.
He is, I think, no worse or better than the majority of the field but is continually compared to LH and MV as he has the car to compete with them. He's done better than any of MV's team mates.Gazzab said:
Bottas is a either incompetent or helping RB
I thought the same. He definitely wasn't assisting Lewis! Even though he'd have known it was coming, and it'll probably bring him more peace in the long run to move to Alfa Romeo, I often wonder if he is a little bitter about it. Its not the best timing really, being told that you have to help Lewis achieve his 8th championship and help Mercedes win the constructors championship whilst also being replaced by GR. I think deep down maybe Toto Wolf gets it, even though its the last thing he wants! Just my opinion 🙂HardtopManual said:
Check out the YouTube video "INCREDIBLE overtakes by Valtteri Bottas" when you've got a spare three seconds.
Frimley111R said:
paulguitar said:
I’d suggest being teammate to Lewis Hamilton (or Max), makes Sundays rather a big ask for anyone less than a genius though.
He is, I think, no worse or better than the majority of the field but is continually compared to LH and MV as he has the car to compete with them. He's done better than any of MV's team mates.
t.Jake899 said:
They should have had the guts to drop Bottas earlier. They should drop him now.
And who do you suggest that Mercedes put in to an unfamiliar car with 4 races of the season to go?
I'm not here to defend Bottas' fairly lame start on Sunday but, to me, it looked like Mercedes were trying to plan something off the start to keep Max behind that, for whatever reason, massively messed up.
It wouldn't have mattered anyway - Verstappen would have got ahead at pitstops just like he did in Austin.
I don't know if anyone got the Mercedes debrief, but on that they implied that Verstappen was alongside too early for Bottas to stay on or move back to the racing line. I suspect Bottas moved right to tow Hamilton, then by the time it was obvious Hamilton had got a better start and was alongside so couldn't benefit from a tow, Bottas couldn't react in time to move back to the left (or possibly even felt that he should only make one move - maybe being too fair)
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