Discussion
DanielSan said:
C Lee Farquar said:
The Williams situation looks better to me.
It takes them a month to lose what McLaren lose in a day. Williams are funded to the end of the year, Mclaren to next month. Williams have consistently raced within their means whilst Mclaren have racked up significant debt.
And Frank still owns a controlling share, Ron has no shares.
Ron has nothing to do with Mclaren anymore full stop so how is him having no shares in anyway comparable to Frank Williams? It takes them a month to lose what McLaren lose in a day. Williams are funded to the end of the year, Mclaren to next month. Williams have consistently raced within their means whilst Mclaren have racked up significant debt.
And Frank still owns a controlling share, Ron has no shares.
same as a lot of big business....
Look how many big business have failed or are failing right now as everyone pushes the "buy small, buy local" agenda to keep 5 people in a job.
I don't think many people realize a lot of big business are heavily debt laden. They've grown though borrowing and can't just mothball the business due to the cost of servicing debt, small business in general aren't debt laden as they're seen as risky.
Mclaren have built their supercar business very quickly so you had to expect there was a huge amount of borrowing.
Look how many big business have failed or are failing right now as everyone pushes the "buy small, buy local" agenda to keep 5 people in a job.
I don't think many people realize a lot of big business are heavily debt laden. They've grown though borrowing and can't just mothball the business due to the cost of servicing debt, small business in general aren't debt laden as they're seen as risky.
Mclaren have built their supercar business very quickly so you had to expect there was a huge amount of borrowing.
andburg said:
same as a lot of big business....
Look how many big business have failed or are failing right now as everyone pushes the "buy small, buy local" agenda to keep 5 people in a job.
I don't think many people realize a lot of big business are heavily debt laden. They've grown though borrowing and can't just mothball the business due to the cost of servicing debt, small business in general aren't debt laden as they're seen as risky.
Mclaren have built their supercar business very quickly so you had to expect there was a huge amount of borrowing.
And it had to pay off Ron, hence the mortgages on the historic cars Look how many big business have failed or are failing right now as everyone pushes the "buy small, buy local" agenda to keep 5 people in a job.
I don't think many people realize a lot of big business are heavily debt laden. They've grown though borrowing and can't just mothball the business due to the cost of servicing debt, small business in general aren't debt laden as they're seen as risky.
Mclaren have built their supercar business very quickly so you had to expect there was a huge amount of borrowing.
Piginapoke said:
andburg said:
same as a lot of big business....
Look how many big business have failed or are failing right now as everyone pushes the "buy small, buy local" agenda to keep 5 people in a job.
I don't think many people realize a lot of big business are heavily debt laden. They've grown though borrowing and can't just mothball the business due to the cost of servicing debt, small business in general aren't debt laden as they're seen as risky.
Mclaren have built their supercar business very quickly so you had to expect there was a huge amount of borrowing.
And it had to pay off Ron, hence the mortgages on the historic cars Look how many big business have failed or are failing right now as everyone pushes the "buy small, buy local" agenda to keep 5 people in a job.
I don't think many people realize a lot of big business are heavily debt laden. They've grown though borrowing and can't just mothball the business due to the cost of servicing debt, small business in general aren't debt laden as they're seen as risky.
Mclaren have built their supercar business very quickly so you had to expect there was a huge amount of borrowing.
Frankly the other shareholders should have bought him out with their own money; to load that onto the business was just a standard PE tactic; and as we know, highly-leveraged PE-owned businesses frequently go to the wall as soon as the music stops.DanielSan said:
Ron has nothing to do with Mclaren anymore full stop so how is him having no shares in anyway comparable to Frank Williams?
The point I was getting at is that Ron and Frank were contemporaries with their own teams (with partners)Ron has lost his team, Frank hasn't. (yet)
C Lee Farquar said:
DanielSan said:
Ron has nothing to do with Mclaren anymore full stop so how is him having no shares in anyway comparable to Frank Williams?
The point I was getting at is that Ron and Frank were contemporaries with their own teams (with partners)Ron has lost his team, Frank hasn't. (yet)
Sure he’s watching the deteriorating situation his former partners are facing with some glee ?
Frank on the other has lost everything, his company, his reputation and his money.
Exige77 said:
Ron is sitting pretty with many millions in the bank. I think the last estimate was circa £450M.
Sure he’s watching the deteriorating situation his former partners are facing with some glee ?
Frank on the other has lost everything, his company, his reputation and his money.
He's fine for money, he's a millionaire from Williams, not enough to save the team of course but enough to never worry about money.Sure he’s watching the deteriorating situation his former partners are facing with some glee ?
Frank on the other has lost everything, his company, his reputation and his money.
He'll be properly heartbroken as reality hits though - that team is his life. He and Claire have definitely failed to carry the team into the modern age of the sport but they've at least failed whilst trying to chase a fairytale. None of this has happened yet of course... Although it's hard not to imagine that behind closed doors, they have now had to accept what must happen. The team can't be sustained without fresh mega money being poured in and no one will do that without taking charge of the team. For the Williams family, it's as good as gone already.
jsf said:
Ron was a partner from day1 of his involvement in McLaren, it's never been his team alone, it's not even got his name on it.
No true! I recall from an interview (though can't recall the precise times) he was signed over at close of business one day and Ojeh came in at 9am the next, so for one evening he had total ownership of McLaren International.(pedantic I know)
DanielSan said:
Piginapoke said:
McLaren is ultimately bankrolled by the Bahrain sovereign fund, it’s not going to the wall. Williams has no backers, it just has debt.
This. The owners fot the moment are looking for alternative funds rather than their own wallets. If Bahrain were willing to put more money in right now McLaren wouldn't be seeking declaration they can sell some crown jewels before they run out of cash next month.
I wonder what state the manufacturing business is really in? If they haven't proved concept they might find it difficult to find a buyer at all should they need one.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I honestly think Ron is sitting closer and closer to the phone the longer this goes on for. LaurasOtherHalf said:
What is new in that article though? We know they're seeking renewed financing and we know that those able to lend are looking closer than ever at the security of those loans. Frankly, McLaren don't appear to qualify as a reasonable risk right now.They will still get the funds they need in the end, but it'll either come from Bahrain with whatever strings attached they see fit, or it will come from a sale of equity. No one involved wants to sell equity so naturally they're trying every other avenue first.
If in a months time there is no new lending and also no buyer lining up, that's when I would start to worry. We're not at that point yet though.
TheDeuce said:
If in a months time there is no new lending and also no buyer lining up, that's when I would start to worry. We're not at that point yet though.
If McLaren are one month away from needing either more finance against assets they don't control or being sold completely, I'd say the time to worry is right now.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff