Alonso to leave Ferrari?
Discussion
Anyone know how every race, Vettel is able to pull out a 2sec lead on the first lap? I think you would have to be on drugs to believe that it's down to Vettel's extra 'skill', rather than something on his car. Hopefully the guy Mclaren have pinched from Redbull will unlock the secrets.
AFC1886 said:
Anyone know how every race, Vettel is able to pull out a 2sec lead on the first lap? I think you would have to be on drugs to believe that it's down to Vettel's extra 'skill', rather than something on his car. Hopefully the guy Mclaren have pinched from Redbull will unlock the secrets.
It is amazing isn't it? When you look at the aeriel helicopter shot looking down on the track ( such as last weekend ) as Seb leads the way out of the first corner you see him instantly pull out 2 or 3 car lengths, he has so much more grip than anyone else. It is very, very impressive and also rather baffling. There is no sideways grappling with wheelspin, no corrections at the wheel, he just presses on the go pedal earlier and harder than anyone else can and soon has a 2 sec lead on the first lap.Bloody amazing. I can see why the other drivers have given up.
toppstuff said:
AFC1886 said:
Anyone know how every race, Vettel is able to pull out a 2sec lead on the first lap? I think you would have to be on drugs to believe that it's down to Vettel's extra 'skill', rather than something on his car. Hopefully the guy Mclaren have pinched from Redbull will unlock the secrets.
It is amazing isn't it? When you look at the aeriel helicopter shot looking down on the track ( such as last weekend ) as Seb leads the way out of the first corner you see him instantly pull out 2 or 3 car lengths, he has so much more grip than anyone else. It is very, very impressive and also rather baffling. There is no sideways grappling with wheelspin, no corrections at the wheel, he just presses on the go pedal earlier and harder than anyone else can and soon has a 2 sec lead on the first lap.Bloody amazing. I can see why the other drivers have given up.
ash73 said:
toppstuff said:
if he was in a RB he clearly could not do a better job than Sebastien Vettel
This is a gross oversimplification. You can't just pick up a driver and drop them in another car and expect them to perform; the car is designed around them and it might take half a season to learn how to set it up to their liking. They may have to modify some aspects of the design to suit the new driver's style.I was merely remarking that I don't think any driver could have done any better in the car than Seb has. His record in the RB is as good as it can be. He's been consistent and with a real talent for keeping out of trouble. If Alonso had been in the RB I can't imagine he could have achieved more.
It is quite true that Seb has a car ( indeed an entire team !) made for him and he is made just for the car. A perfect symbiosis.
Alternatively for the last 3 years he has been in the most expensive car, he hasn't gelled that well with the team; which may go part way to explaining how the most amount of money has not produced the best car. He has had a completely subservient second driver, something seen in none of the other top teams, his personality/temperament isn't great, his qualifying isn't great and his race pace has been fading recently.
I really love his style of driving, his fast starts and awesome overtakes. F1 wouldn't be the same without him. But the best driver now? Not for me.
I really love his style of driving, his fast starts and awesome overtakes. F1 wouldn't be the same without him. But the best driver now? Not for me.
Muzzer79 said:
I am not a Vettel "detractor" I think the boy is good - you don't get to be a 4 time champion without being good.
I just think that one has to acknowledge his vastly superior equipment, much like one has to with Mansell in '92, arguably with Hill in '96 and with Schumacher in (some of) the 2000s.
If that was the case wouldn't you expect his team mate to be in second place in the drivers championship? Webber is currently a distant 5th, finished 6th in 2012, 3rd in 2011 and 3rd in 2010, all in the supposedly domnant Red Bull. So either Webber is rubbish (which he isn't), or it's more than just the car.I just think that one has to acknowledge his vastly superior equipment, much like one has to with Mansell in '92, arguably with Hill in '96 and with Schumacher in (some of) the 2000s.
It would be good to see how Alonso fares in a 'middle ranking' team (if you can call the works Renault team that).. oh wait, yes, one of the two wins he got was through race fixing.
I still don't know how he got away with that, nor how those who castigate Schumacher overlook this (and the attempted blackmail too).
I still don't know how he got away with that, nor how those who castigate Schumacher overlook this (and the attempted blackmail too).
vonuber said:
It would be good to see how Alonso fares in a 'middle ranking' team (if you can call the works Renault team that).. oh wait, yes, one of the two wins he got was through race fixing.
I still don't know how he got away with that, nor how those who castigate Schumacher overlook this (and the attempted blackmail too).
Fair point. The Renault / Nelson piquet business was very sordid indeed. Briatore was a shark wasn't he ...very dodgy. Alonso was Teflon coated when that kicked off.I still don't know how he got away with that, nor how those who castigate Schumacher overlook this (and the attempted blackmail too).
RYH64E said:
If that was the case wouldn't you expect his team mate to be in second place in the drivers championship? Webber is currently a distant 5th, finished 6th in 2012, 3rd in 2011 and 3rd in 2010, all in the supposedly dominant Red Bull. So either Webber is rubbish (which he isn't), or it's more than just the car.
you are only allowed to apply that logic to Alonso/Massa, not Vettel/Webber.toppstuff said:
Fair point. The Renault / Nelson piquet business was very sordid indeed. Briatore was a shark wasn't he ...very dodgy. Alonso was Teflon coated when that kicked off.
He was, and I was appalled that he was in the paddock this year. Should have been a lifetime ban. I felt sorry for Piquet, it was a complete abuse of power by Briatore acting as his team manager and his personal manager.
vonuber said:
It would be good to see how Alonso fares in a 'middle ranking' team (if you can call the works Renault team that).. oh wait, yes, one of the two wins he got was through race fixing.
I still don't know how he got away with that, nor how those who castigate Schumacher overlook this (and the attempted blackmail too).
Not to mention that Alonso was very much in the centre of the chain that passed Ferrari info, ultimately, to Mike Coughlan.I still don't know how he got away with that, nor how those who castigate Schumacher overlook this (and the attempted blackmail too).
Teflon coated then.
He was even invited to leave the hearing early so as not to stain his character.
Utter joke.
ash73 said:
He's won a race in a midfield team; end of story. Part of being the best is getting into the right car at the right time, just as Fangio did. Does anyone criticse Jimmy Clark for only driving for Lotus when it was the class of the field?
Jim Clark was about the.only driver able to drive a Lotus fast and not break it. He was incredibly gentle on his cars.
Also, when at the peak of his career, he didn't veto Graham Hill (a vastly under-rated driver) joining the team as a joint number 1 driver in equal cars.
Clark raced as he lived; incredibly fairly. There have been times when Vettel has not raced fairly. There seems to be a lack of fairness within the team too.
ash73 said:
I don't think performance in junior formulae is a good indicator of likely performance in F1. It just gets them in the door. I said that at the time when di Resta got into F1 and everyone was raving about his F3/DTM record.
Even the basic driving skills are different in terms of aero characteristics and power/grip, the longer races, setup and strategy etc, but there's also the pressure, mind games and other peripheral things they have to cope with.
Drivers develop in steps, it's not a linear process; same as anyone else learning a sport. Something clicked for Seb in 2008 and it got him a RBR drive, and there was little between him and Mark initially, but now he is on another level again.
Yeah, his jaw. Alone in a room with Markko.Even the basic driving skills are different in terms of aero characteristics and power/grip, the longer races, setup and strategy etc, but there's also the pressure, mind games and other peripheral things they have to cope with.
Drivers develop in steps, it's not a linear process; same as anyone else learning a sport. Something clicked for Seb in 2008 and it got him a RBR drive, and there was little between him and Mark initially, but now he is on another level again.
He got the RB drive because Coulthard retired. If he had stayed on in to 2009 (the decision was his, not the team's) Vettel would have had to sit another year in the TR.
Vaud said:
CraigyMc said:
Anyone know what the rules are on KERS recharging while in the start map?
Now that is a good question. KERS acting as a moderator in lower gears through some kind of clever transfer box?
Even if it was throwing the electricity away rather than charging the (presumably full for the race start) battery, it'd be an advantage.
I also wondered whether it might be possible/worthwhile to have a rather oddly profiled 1st gear (ovoid) so that you could pulse power through the rear wheels in just that gear, in order to make it easier to keep the rears at road speed plus 10-20% (ie. perfect launch).
I'ts likely that neither of these are within the rules.
CraigyMc said:
If you wanted to control wheelspin, could KERS be told to harvest a certain amount while you're performing a standing start?
Even if it was throwing the electricity away rather than charging the (presumably full for the race start) battery, it'd be an advantage.
I also wondered whether it might be possible/worthwhile to have a rather oddly profiled 1st gear (ovoid) so that you could pulse power through the rear wheels in just that gear, in order to make it easier to keep the rears at road speed plus 10-20% (ie. perfect launch).
I'ts likely that neither of these are within the rules.
Extending your thoughts, I wonder if the reason there have been so many KERS failures on the RB isn't because of packaging per se... But because of how it is used within the gearbox?Even if it was throwing the electricity away rather than charging the (presumably full for the race start) battery, it'd be an advantage.
I also wondered whether it might be possible/worthwhile to have a rather oddly profiled 1st gear (ovoid) so that you could pulse power through the rear wheels in just that gear, in order to make it easier to keep the rears at road speed plus 10-20% (ie. perfect launch).
I'ts likely that neither of these are within the rules.
Vaud said:
Extending your thoughts, I wonder if the reason there have been so many KERS failures on the RB isn't because of packaging per se... But because of how it is used within the gearbox?
Well, the KERS failures seem to be mainly on Webber's car do they not? Plus the control units are all made by McLaren ?
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