Official 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix Thread (Vol 2) *SPOILERS*
Discussion
mattb46 said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Not much ambiguity in this quote, from three days ago:
”It remains to be seen what this means, but it is not thought likely that the federation will axe Race Director Michael Masi, as this would obviously be a sign of the FIA kowtowing to pressures from external forces, particularly as the FIA Stewards in Abu Dhabi rejected the Mercedes-Benz appeal and by doing so supported Masi’s actions, whether it was popular or not. They are the official referees of the sport and thus the FIA wants them to be respected. To remove Masi would be unwise and would create unhelpful precedents for the sport. It is far more likely that the analysis will focus on the way that the Safety Car is used, as this was the fundamental reason that Lewis Hamilton lost the World Championship.”
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/02/14/the-f1-...
That's the same opinionated journo who went on a rant when news first broke in 2012 that Hamilton had signed for Mercedes; basically calling him an idiot for leaving Mclaren”It remains to be seen what this means, but it is not thought likely that the federation will axe Race Director Michael Masi, as this would obviously be a sign of the FIA kowtowing to pressures from external forces, particularly as the FIA Stewards in Abu Dhabi rejected the Mercedes-Benz appeal and by doing so supported Masi’s actions, whether it was popular or not. They are the official referees of the sport and thus the FIA wants them to be respected. To remove Masi would be unwise and would create unhelpful precedents for the sport. It is far more likely that the analysis will focus on the way that the Safety Car is used, as this was the fundamental reason that Lewis Hamilton lost the World Championship.”
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/02/14/the-f1-...
HustleRussell said:
But Ben Sulayem, I thought this was all just a misunderstanding and we F1 fans were just being silly?
To be fair to Ben Sulayem, that was Jean Todt who said that.What we need now is an official apology from the FIA to the Teams, Drivers and Fans. Max championship is forever tainted.
jm doc said:
playamonte said:
paulw123 said:
The fact Masi is still in a job beggars belief.
Still feel sick about what happened that day. It was a season that showed the worst decisions of a race director I can ever remember. Spa, Brazil, Saudi or Abu Dahbi on their own would have been bad enough but to have all that in one season is just ridiculous. The final race will haunt the FIA for years.
Sport and fairness comes first. ‘The show’ comes second.
Yes as bent as a nine bob note & in time it may well come out just how much influence RB has over the muppet.Still feel sick about what happened that day. It was a season that showed the worst decisions of a race director I can ever remember. Spa, Brazil, Saudi or Abu Dahbi on their own would have been bad enough but to have all that in one season is just ridiculous. The final race will haunt the FIA for years.
Sport and fairness comes first. ‘The show’ comes second.
It's worth recalling what actually happened here. Masi was specifically asked to retract his decision AND break two rules by Red Bull in the closing stages of the race, despite already having announced his decision on how the safety car would be brought, in order that Verstappen could catch Hamilton and pass him. There was no other reason for so doing and there was no other outcome once he agreed.
The question that should be asked is: Why on earth would someone in his position, in charge of the race, independent, and only answerable to the FIA, not only do that for Red Bull, but when reminded of the rules by Mercedes, refuse to answer and continue with his illegal act? What was the influence they had on him and that they brought to bear on him in such a dramatic way? There must be something quite powerful to do this incredible gift for Horner and Wheatley.
Was it financial? Did they have some dirt on him? Was he obligated to help out to someone in trouble? I'm not sure there are any other things that could be brought to bear on him at that point by Red Bull.
All this about the show, FIA wanting a different WC, wanting the race to end under green flags, it's all just smoke and mirrors put out by the FIA and their friends in the media to divert attention from the real questions. Divert attention, introduce random reasons, keep the conversation away from the real question. This was absolutely clearly a spur of the moment decision which was a direct response to the RB requests and exactly what was asked for by a desperate Red Bull team. Why would he do that?
sociopath said:
jm doc said:
playamonte said:
paulw123 said:
The fact Masi is still in a job beggars belief.
Still feel sick about what happened that day. It was a season that showed the worst decisions of a race director I can ever remember. Spa, Brazil, Saudi or Abu Dahbi on their own would have been bad enough but to have all that in one season is just ridiculous. The final race will haunt the FIA for years.
Sport and fairness comes first. ‘The show’ comes second.
Yes as bent as a nine bob note & in time it may well come out just how much influence RB has over the muppet.Still feel sick about what happened that day. It was a season that showed the worst decisions of a race director I can ever remember. Spa, Brazil, Saudi or Abu Dahbi on their own would have been bad enough but to have all that in one season is just ridiculous. The final race will haunt the FIA for years.
Sport and fairness comes first. ‘The show’ comes second.
It's worth recalling what actually happened here. Masi was specifically asked to retract his decision AND break two rules by Red Bull in the closing stages of the race, despite already having announced his decision on how the safety car would be brought, in order that Verstappen could catch Hamilton and pass him. There was no other reason for so doing and there was no other outcome once he agreed.
The question that should be asked is: Why on earth would someone in his position, in charge of the race, independent, and only answerable to the FIA, not only do that for Red Bull, but when reminded of the rules by Mercedes, refuse to answer and continue with his illegal act? What was the influence they had on him and that they brought to bear on him in such a dramatic way? There must be something quite powerful to do this incredible gift for Horner and Wheatley.
Was it financial? Did they have some dirt on him? Was he obligated to help out to someone in trouble? I'm not sure there are any other things that could be brought to bear on him at that point by Red Bull.
All this about the show, FIA wanting a different WC, wanting the race to end under green flags, it's all just smoke and mirrors put out by the FIA and their friends in the media to divert attention from the real questions. Divert attention, introduce random reasons, keep the conversation away from the real question. This was absolutely clearly a spur of the moment decision which was a direct response to the RB requests and exactly what was asked for by a desperate Red Bull team. Why would he do that?
jm doc said:
All this about the show, FIA wanting a different WC, wanting the race to end under green flags, it's all just smoke and mirrors put out by the FIA and their friends in the media to divert attention from the real questions. Divert attention, introduce random reasons, keep the conversation away from the real question. This was absolutely clearly a spur of the moment decision which was a direct response to the RB requests and exactly what was asked for by a desperate Red Bull team. Why would he do that?
It was all for the show. Look at his (Masi's) decisions over the year and it's clear they wanted a close run contest. When the Saudi GP ended and they (Max & Lewis) were level on points I bet there were some within both Liberty and the FIA looking for a change of underwear and reaching for the tissues. When Latifi binned it and RB put the thought in Masi's head that they could have a last lap shootout between the pair, I can only imagine he was thinking of the pat on the back he'd be getting from his superiors for crafting such a perfect ending to the season.For those who'll say "why would the FIA care about the result", it's easy to make the connection that F1 popularity = FIA revenues
Volvolover said:
blueg33 said:
Surely they had to move him aside because you cannot have someone with that level of power who has made such a monumental error of judgement.
In my industry (construction) you would be looking at a P45, and as there were safety issues too, gross misconduct, no pay off, no other job within the business.
That's what i'm saying, if it was so clear cut Massi's error and that he'd acted totally outside of the framework of the rules, and not an issue with the rules and governance themselves then they'd have sacked him rather than still employ him in my view. In my industry (construction) you would be looking at a P45, and as there were safety issues too, gross misconduct, no pay off, no other job within the business.
Massi put them in a no win position, and they were stupid enough to vaildate the position without properly considering it
Si1295 said:
jm doc said:
All this about the show, FIA wanting a different WC, wanting the race to end under green flags, it's all just smoke and mirrors put out by the FIA and their friends in the media to divert attention from the real questions. Divert attention, introduce random reasons, keep the conversation away from the real question. This was absolutely clearly a spur of the moment decision which was a direct response to the RB requests and exactly what was asked for by a desperate Red Bull team. Why would he do that?
It was all for the show. Look at his (Masi's) decisions over the year and it's clear they wanted a close run contest. When the Saudi GP ended and they (Max & Lewis) were level on points I bet there were some within both Liberty and the FIA looking for a change of underwear and reaching for the tissues. When Latifi binned it and RB put the thought in Masi's head that they could have a last lap shootout between the pair, I can only imagine he was thinking of the pat on the back he'd be getting from his superiors for crafting such a perfect ending to the season.For those who'll say "why would the FIA care about the result", it's easy to make the connection that F1 popularity = FIA revenues
He was asked to bin the book, and he was asked not to bin it. He knew the consequences but still did what RB asked him to do. That's very powerful evidence of a connection. What is it?
jm doc said:
Si1295 said:
jm doc said:
All this about the show, FIA wanting a different WC, wanting the race to end under green flags, it's all just smoke and mirrors put out by the FIA and their friends in the media to divert attention from the real questions. Divert attention, introduce random reasons, keep the conversation away from the real question. This was absolutely clearly a spur of the moment decision which was a direct response to the RB requests and exactly what was asked for by a desperate Red Bull team. Why would he do that?
It was all for the show. Look at his (Masi's) decisions over the year and it's clear they wanted a close run contest. When the Saudi GP ended and they (Max & Lewis) were level on points I bet there were some within both Liberty and the FIA looking for a change of underwear and reaching for the tissues. When Latifi binned it and RB put the thought in Masi's head that they could have a last lap shootout between the pair, I can only imagine he was thinking of the pat on the back he'd be getting from his superiors for crafting such a perfect ending to the season.For those who'll say "why would the FIA care about the result", it's easy to make the connection that F1 popularity = FIA revenues
He was asked to bin the book, and he was asked not to bin it. He knew the consequences but still did what RB asked him to do. That's very powerful evidence of a connection. What is it?
Volvolover said:
Given that he is an employee like any other they cant just 'sack' him without proving misconduct or breach of contract etc, seeing as the only enquiry (stewards post race) found that he had overriding authority then its pretty hard for him to be sacked without them having to pay him off (if he agreed with it), the fact he's been given another job pretty much proves he acted within his authority but its the Race Director authority and the rules that need changing which is what appears to be happening.
Lots of misinformed speculation here.They can of course just sack him for any reason and then it becomes an issue of whether or not the employment contract was terminated lawfully or not and what compensation may be due in respect of the lawful/unlawful termination.
The ruling of the stewards is irrelevant except perhaps as a desperate argument to try and assert he did nothing wrong.
Suggesting a sideways move “pretty much proves he acted within his authority” is a massive reach. If he acted within his authority he’d still be in post wouldn’t he? He’s much more likely been moved because to sack him would be a much more black and white admission that he broke the rules and screwed up the WDC.
Edited to add: the FIA statement says he’s been offered another role within the business. He may or may not accept the offer. If he doesn’t, again it will become an issue of compensation. Irrespective of who his next employer is, the FIA or someone else, he’s been booted from the role of RD because he screwed up. End of story imho.
Edited by DT398 on Thursday 17th February 18:38
I wonder if the poster who stated they were not going to join my band wagon of questioning Masi's decisions has changed their mind now?
I saw this s
t show coming, I never expected it to get quite so bad.
It's a PR nightmare for Red Bull, the banners at the races this year are going to be quite "interesting"
I saw this s
t show coming, I never expected it to get quite so bad.It's a PR nightmare for Red Bull, the banners at the races this year are going to be quite "interesting"
sociopath said:
jm doc said:
Si1295 said:
jm doc said:
All this about the show, FIA wanting a different WC, wanting the race to end under green flags, it's all just smoke and mirrors put out by the FIA and their friends in the media to divert attention from the real questions. Divert attention, introduce random reasons, keep the conversation away from the real question. This was absolutely clearly a spur of the moment decision which was a direct response to the RB requests and exactly what was asked for by a desperate Red Bull team. Why would he do that?
It was all for the show. Look at his (Masi's) decisions over the year and it's clear they wanted a close run contest. When the Saudi GP ended and they (Max & Lewis) were level on points I bet there were some within both Liberty and the FIA looking for a change of underwear and reaching for the tissues. When Latifi binned it and RB put the thought in Masi's head that they could have a last lap shootout between the pair, I can only imagine he was thinking of the pat on the back he'd be getting from his superiors for crafting such a perfect ending to the season.For those who'll say "why would the FIA care about the result", it's easy to make the connection that F1 popularity = FIA revenues
He was asked to bin the book, and he was asked not to bin it. He knew the consequences but still did what RB asked him to do. That's very powerful evidence of a connection. What is it?
You really need to start taking your medication again.
I have to say, this is a harder line than I expected the FIA to take. It’s as far as they can go without actually admitting what he did and the impact it had.
They’re desperately trying to not undermine Max’s championship, avoid too much accusation of corruption and or incompetence, while trying to retain some level of credibility as a sport…. I’m surprised they have gone this far as it is a pretty clear admission that Masi did something catastrophic (we know he did, but they will be walking a tightrope of trying not to admit it too clearly).
Anyway, he was a clown and had to go. He ruined Max’s WDC, robbed Lewis of his 8th, compromised key safety legislation in the name of the show… He was a clown and had to go.
They’re desperately trying to not undermine Max’s championship, avoid too much accusation of corruption and or incompetence, while trying to retain some level of credibility as a sport…. I’m surprised they have gone this far as it is a pretty clear admission that Masi did something catastrophic (we know he did, but they will be walking a tightrope of trying not to admit it too clearly).
Anyway, he was a clown and had to go. He ruined Max’s WDC, robbed Lewis of his 8th, compromised key safety legislation in the name of the show… He was a clown and had to go.
DT398 said:
Volvolover said:
Given that he is an employee like any other they cant just 'sack' him without proving misconduct or breach of contract etc, seeing as the only enquiry (stewards post race) found that he had overriding authority then its pretty hard for him to be sacked without them having to pay him off (if he agreed with it), the fact he's been given another job pretty much proves he acted within his authority but its the Race Director authority and the rules that need changing which is what appears to be happening.
Lots of misinformed speculation here.They can of course just sack him for any reason and then it becomes an issue of whether or not the employment contract was terminated lawfully or not and what compensation may be due in respect of the lawful/unlawful termination.
The ruling of the stewards is irrelevant except perhaps as a desperate argument to try and assert he did nothing wrong.
Suggesting a sideways move “pretty much proves he acted within his authority” is a massive reach. If he acted within his authority he’d still be in post wouldn’t he? He’s much more likely been moved because to sack him would be a much more black and white admission that he broke the rules and screwed up the WDC.
Edited to add: the FIA statement says he’s been offered another role within the business. He may or may not accept the offer. If he doesn’t, again it will become an issue of compensation. Irrespective of who his next employer is, the FIA or someone else, he’s been booted from the role of RD because he screwed up. End of story imho.
Edited by DT398 on Thursday 17th February 18:38
The stewards ruling is absolutely relevant as it’s an independent ruling and stewards are part of the governance. This has not changed
Third point I already said was speculation
Your last point is also speculation.
It’s amazing to think you dismiss peoples views ‘because speculation’ then immediately speculate yourself
Laughable
Hungrymc said:
Anyway, he was a clown and had to go. He ruined Max’s WDC, robbed Lewis of his 8th, compromised key safety legislation in the name of the show… He was a clown and had to go.
That sums it up nicely.Hopefully we can all now look forward to this year's F1 racing, without biased penalties.
Edited by dreamcracker on Thursday 17th February 19:09
Volvolover said:
The stewards ruling is absolutely relevant as it’s an independent ruling and stewards are part of the governance. This has not changed
The Stewards were not independent, they worked for the FIA in an FIA role and were asked to rule on a cockup/corrupt act by the FIA official.Volvolover said:
So yes as I said they cant sack him (with no recourse….did that but need spelling out?!?)
The stewards ruling is absolutely relevant as it’s an independent ruling and stewards are part of the governance. This has not changed
Third point I already said was speculation
Your last point is also speculation.
It’s amazing to think you dismiss peoples views ‘because speculation’ then immediately speculate yourself
Laughable
You've literally contradicted yourself in that single, bolded sentence!The stewards ruling is absolutely relevant as it’s an independent ruling and stewards are part of the governance. This has not changed
Third point I already said was speculation
Your last point is also speculation.
It’s amazing to think you dismiss peoples views ‘because speculation’ then immediately speculate yourself
Laughable
The stewards' ruling was clearly a nonsense. If you believe those stewards (or Masi, or Red Bull) would've interpreted the rules in that way before Masi did what he did, you're completely deluded. Red Bull's creative interpretation gave the stewards a way to cover Masi's arse. It was that simple.
Question: What's worse for the FIA than a contrived one-lap shootout to decide the title?
Answer: The title being taken away from one driver and given to another in the stewards office, whilst also forcing an admission that the race director broke the rules when he changed the destiny of the title.
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