Massa 2008 World Champion?
Discussion
500TORQUES said:
PhilAsia said:
What did Glock witness?
Years of abuse and death threats by thick Massa fans.PhilAsia said:
I thought he might be going down that route...ignoring the fact that Glock's teammate Trulli was on the same tyres, on the same lap, doing the exact same time within a few hundredths. Maybe he doesn't realise...
I think you are overthinking it. It's just a pun reference to the commentary at the time.
angrymoby said:
& what rules would they be?
as the absolute worst that would have happened is that Alonso/ Renault would have been excluded from the race/ season results ...so Massa might have had a case if he'd finished 2nd in Singapore- but he didn't
anyways, ill leave you to your obvious s
t stirring
I think the sas the absolute worst that would have happened is that Alonso/ Renault would have been excluded from the race/ season results ...so Massa might have had a case if he'd finished 2nd in Singapore- but he didn't
anyways, ill leave you to your obvious s
t stirringt stirrer here is BernieBernie said:
“We had enough information in time to investigate the matter. According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these conditions.
“That means it would never have happened for the championship standings. And then Felipe Massa would have become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton.”
“That means it would never have happened for the championship standings. And then Felipe Massa would have become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton.”
Bernie said:
Former Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone says he does not remember giving the interview which has led to a legal challenge from Felipe Massa over the 2008 World Championship outcome.
Edited by CanAm on Tuesday 22 August 13:44
StevieBee said:
What would happen to bets won or lost on the basis of the results as they stood at the time now being altered?
Presumably there's a clause that bets are made on the basis of the result at the time regardless of future amendment.
Yes, bookmakers always have a specific rule about the time when a result is declared, precisely to deal with this situation. Presumably there's a clause that bets are made on the basis of the result at the time regardless of future amendment.
Some bookies will pay out an individual race result at the time of the podium ceremony, others will wait for the official final result (which can sometimes take weeks if there’s an appeal), bets on the season are usually settled either at the final result of the final race, or at the formal FIA ceremony after the season.
IIRC a group of gamblers did try and sue a bookie once the events of Singapore became clear, but it got nowhere. On the other side, one particular Irish bookie with a habit of attracting publicity for themselves, did pay out both ways for the Abu Dhabi race and the championship in 2021.
Nobody has been able to answer my question yet about exactly which reg means they could cancel the race result, rather than DQing or deducting points from Renault.
Missed Apex podcast made the same point in their most recent episode also. They ran the numbers and under the possibilities in they could see in the regs, there are none which mean that Massa would finish ahead of Hamilton.
Missed Apex podcast made the same point in their most recent episode also. They ran the numbers and under the possibilities in they could see in the regs, there are none which mean that Massa would finish ahead of Hamilton.
Fundoreen said:
2 perfect f1 seasons ruined. Lewis sort of blundering into his first title at the expense of massa and ironically the 2021 one where max sort of lucked into it. Both at the last gasp.
For me, that's not a reasonable conclusion on either account: Hamilton had no way of influencing the outcome of his first championship, except through his driving. He won on the track, Massa lost on the track. As others have said, Massa dropped the ball a couple of times, beyond the disputed race, so he had the opportunity to close it down before the final race. Removing Renault & Piquet from the results wouldn't affect the outcome for either of the other drivers.The 2021 championship was decided through the incompetence of the officiating team: no driver can compete with that. Verstappen & Red Bull could have played it straight & turned it down at the time, it was pretty obviously a farce; a huge ask for him, & no disrespect for not doing so, but it's happened before, albeit a very long time ago. https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/24471861/sixt... .The two don't bear comparison, really.
Fundoreen said:
2 perfect f1 seasons ruined. Lewis sort of blundering into his first title at the expense of massa and ironically the 2021 one where max sort of lucked into it. Both at the last gasp.
Lewis did not 'blunder' into the 2008 title. It was nothing like 2021, where a rogue official decided things. It was decided on the last lap, yes, but there was no skullduggery. Massa can feel hard done by that the crash gate affair did not result in Renault being excluded from that race's result, but Hamilton was robbed of his Spa victory for no reason, so it sort of evens out anyway.
budgie smuggler said:
Nobody has been able to answer my question yet about exactly which reg means they could cancel the race result, rather than DQing or deducting points from Renault.
Missed Apex podcast made the same point in their most recent episode also. They ran the numbers and under the possibilities in they could see in the regs, there are none which mean that Massa would finish ahead of Hamilton.
I think the only mention of such a rule was by Bernie doing his usual trick of lobbing in a hand grenade and doing a runner.Missed Apex podcast made the same point in their most recent episode also. They ran the numbers and under the possibilities in they could see in the regs, there are none which mean that Massa would finish ahead of Hamilton.
CanAm said:
budgie smuggler said:
Nobody has been able to answer my question yet about exactly which reg means they could cancel the race result, rather than DQing or deducting points from Renault.
Missed Apex podcast made the same point in their most recent episode also. They ran the numbers and under the possibilities in they could see in the regs, there are none which mean that Massa would finish ahead of Hamilton.
I think the only mention of such a rule was by Bernie doing his usual trick of lobbing in a hand grenade and doing a runner.Missed Apex podcast made the same point in their most recent episode also. They ran the numbers and under the possibilities in they could see in the regs, there are none which mean that Massa would finish ahead of Hamilton.
, that documentary on Bernie " Lucky" was fascinating , a very shrewd business man , who could and did manipulate F1
great viewing if you haven't seen it
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