Official 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
There's been a bit of criticism aimed at Romain for causing the collision, which this isn't intended as, more just a bit of pondering.
Romain was in the middle of the pack in the Mugello pile up (and reacted well to avoid a smash that time, which contradicts the narrative that his testing reflexes are bad).
Yesterday to me it looked like he overreacted slightly to the slowing cars in front, but at the start of a gp you must be living off instincts, not a rationalised plan, maybe the nasty near miss earlier in the year affected those instincts?
Just a thought. I don't think some of the criticism that has been thrown about is that fair.
Romain was in the middle of the pack in the Mugello pile up (and reacted well to avoid a smash that time, which contradicts the narrative that his testing reflexes are bad).
Yesterday to me it looked like he overreacted slightly to the slowing cars in front, but at the start of a gp you must be living off instincts, not a rationalised plan, maybe the nasty near miss earlier in the year affected those instincts?
Just a thought. I don't think some of the criticism that has been thrown about is that fair.
The problem with having a more rigid barrier in place is energy dissipation. The armco for all it's faults bent and broke absorbing cars energy in the process and there was still had a 53g impact. TechPro barriers seem to rise up and the car submarines underneath also losing energy gradually. I'd hate to think what would have happened had it been a concrete wall and a few tyres, I don't think he'd have survived the impact.
Michael Masi was asked if they'd be checking the rest of the circuit before next weeks (this weeks) race, and of course he had to say yes - but to what standard? Probably the same standard that signed off the course for this race...
Michael Masi was asked if they'd be checking the rest of the circuit before next weeks (this weeks) race, and of course he had to say yes - but to what standard? Probably the same standard that signed off the course for this race...
TheDeuce said:
Gad-Westy said:
Petrus1983 said:
BrundanBianchi said:
I imagine he’ll be fine getting back into a GP car.
That said... we can all only judge his reaction to that experience by what we imagine our own would be. He IS a racing driver and they tend to have a somewhat different reaction to close calls with death - albeit this one was particularly close and would have been a horrific way to go. Maybe in spite of that, the racing driver in him will conclude that the best response is to always get straight back in the car. Plenty before him have done so.
LP670 said:
Does anyone else think Lance Stroll should be looked at for possibly instigating the crash that led to Grosjean spearing the barrier? The guy goes off the track, rejoins and moved his car right over into the centre of the track to try and block the other cars from getting past. The cars behind are then bunched up which is when Grosjean swerves across the track to try and gain positions (he was reckless himself here but thats a seperate point). The FIA need a clamp down on rejoining the track in these situations, driver bans need to happen much sooner than the current point system allows.
You need to remember that these guys are racing at the end of the day. A danger following an incident like this is to play out all scenarios and try to over-sanitize. Stopping other drivers from overtaking is Stroll's job. Are we saying that Lance should have rejoined the track and let all the other cars past, just to be sure? Or politely waited at the side before re-joining at the back of the pack?
That's not how these drivers (and this sport) are built.
CanAm said:
The last one I can remember was Berger at Imola. But yesterday’s crash looked far worse than that. When I saw the fireball and the TV Director cut away from it, I thought the worst. It looked a s bad as Lauda’s; I’m glad not to have seen any more until after we saw Grosjean being helped over the Armco.
I don’t like the look of current F1 cars, but 30 years without a fiery crash is definitely something we’d all applaud. Really good to see Grosjean in good spirits in hospital after the race too.
It had all sorts of really bad ingredients that in an earlier era would have resulted in certain death.I don’t like the look of current F1 cars, but 30 years without a fiery crash is definitely something we’d all applaud. Really good to see Grosjean in good spirits in hospital after the race too.
I wouldn't be surprised if, by pure bad luck, the gap between the upper and lower sections of the barrier coincided with the height of the raised nose of the car, which meant that the nose wedged itself into the gap and caused the car to rip apart.
Rindt's fatal injuries at Monza fifty years ago were caused by a similar situation, the wedge shaped nose of the Lotus 72 slotted perfectly under the bottom of the Armco - which resulted in the car ripping apart. Of course, in 1970, the safety features on the car were minimal. In fact, Rindt wasn't even wearing a full harness.
In Rindt's case, amazingly, there was no fire. But it was still a fatal accident.
The fire erupting because of the back end of the car ripping off reminded me of Watson's big crash at Monza in 1981.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPZ_eU8rHWU
I've hated the Halo device ever since it was introduced, Yesterday, I changed my mind.
Halmyre said:
Wasn't it Martin Brundle who ended up upside-down after the first lap of a Grand Prix? The race was stopped, he got out and ran back to the pits hoping to use the spare car for the restart.
Australian GP, 1996.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHOyIGToAZc
Halmyre said:
Wasn't it Martin Brundle who ended up upside-down after the first lap of a Grand Prix? The race was stopped, he got out and ran back to the pits hoping to use the spare car for the restart.
Yes, 1996 Australian GP. He also semi-famously had a huge crash in a Tyrell. Upon returning to the pits, he got into the spare car and before rolling out asked his engineer which way the pitlane went..........Ken Tyrell quietly leaned in and switched the car off.
LP670 said:
Does anyone else think Lance Stroll should be looked at for possibly instigating the crash that led to Grosjean spearing the barrier? The guy goes off the track, rejoins and moved his car right over into the centre of the track to try and block the other cars from getting past. The cars behind are then bunched up which is when Grosjean swerves across the track to try and gain positions (he was reckless himself here but thats a seperate point). The FIA need a clamp down on rejoining the track in these situations, driver bans need to happen much sooner than the current point system allows.
Tricky, we'd have several drivers a season banned. How many bans would Seb have achieved just in one season!?It's a tricky rule to enforce anyway, such limited visibility, often a question mark over how much control the driver even had between exiting and re-joining the track too. I sometimes feel that with such awkward rules it perhaps best that the penalty is not too severe - if it were it would become a major cause of contention and lead to never ending arguments. Could say the same about lots of F1 rules of course - which is probably why there is little consistency in terms of the determination of fault or scale of penalty.
Halmyre said:
Wasn't it Martin Brundle who ended up upside-down after the first lap of a Grand Prix? The race was stopped, he got out and ran back to the pits hoping to use the spare car for the restart.
Yep, Melbourne 1996, same corner as Alonso had a similar crash a couple of years ago https://youtube.com/watch?v=CHOyIGToAZc
He ran back to tell Sid Watkins he was perfectly fine and good to go in the spare car, and astonishingly the Prof let him take the restart.
They’re definitely made of something different to the rest of us!
p1stonhead said:
How can someone actually survive 53g? I don’t get it.
I assume it was for a fraction of a second, but still!
53g isn't actually all that high in F1 crash terms.I assume it was for a fraction of a second, but still!
Kubica's crash in Canada '08 was 75g.
The highest recorded G force survived in a motorsports crash was 214g, experienced by Kenny Brack in Indycars.
Muzzer79 said:
LP670 said:
Does anyone else think Lance Stroll should be looked at for possibly instigating the crash that led to Grosjean spearing the barrier? The guy goes off the track, rejoins and moved his car right over into the centre of the track to try and block the other cars from getting past. The cars behind are then bunched up which is when Grosjean swerves across the track to try and gain positions (he was reckless himself here but thats a seperate point). The FIA need a clamp down on rejoining the track in these situations, driver bans need to happen much sooner than the current point system allows.
You need to remember that these guys are racing at the end of the day. A danger following an incident like this is to play out all scenarios and try to over-sanitize. Stopping other drivers from overtaking is Stroll's job. Are we saying that Lance should have rejoined the track and let all the other cars past, just to be sure? Or politely waited at the side before re-joining at the back of the pack?
That's not how these drivers (and this sport) are built.
p1stonhead said:
How can someone actually survive 53g? I don’t get it.
I assume it was for a fraction of a second, but still!
People have survived higher G loads than that. Kenny Brack was subjected to over 200Gs when he had a massive Indycar accident I assume it was for a fraction of a second, but still!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8fgGiI1WA
Back in the 1960s, the US Air Force ran tests using a rocket sled to ascertain what types of G l;oads a human could withstand. The volunteer for these tests was an Air Force doctor called John Stapp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omtISQp5bKg
Muzzer79 said:
Yes, 1996 Australian GP.
He also semi-famously had a huge crash in a Tyrell. Upon returning to the pits, he got into the spare car and before rolling out asked his engineer which way the pitlane went..........Ken Tyrell quietly leaned in and switched the car off.
Monaco 1984.He also semi-famously had a huge crash in a Tyrell. Upon returning to the pits, he got into the spare car and before rolling out asked his engineer which way the pitlane went..........Ken Tyrell quietly leaned in and switched the car off.
Muzzer79 said:
Halmyre said:
Wasn't it Martin Brundle who ended up upside-down after the first lap of a Grand Prix? The race was stopped, he got out and ran back to the pits hoping to use the spare car for the restart.
Yes, 1996 Australian GP. He also semi-famously had a huge crash in a Tyrell. Upon returning to the pits, he got into the spare car and before rolling out asked his engineer which way the pitlane went..........Ken Tyrell quietly leaned in and switched the car off.
sgtBerbatov said:
Blackpuddin said:
Big conflagration obvs but a bit surprised at how ineffective the extinguishers seemed to be.
Agreed. And they want to start using exotic fuels in the next year or two?
Petrus1983 said:
Exige77 said:
Steiner is saying Romain might be racing again this weekend. Not sure I’d fancy that.
Nothing says his wife hasn't arrived in Bahrain yet more than this comment.Edited by Exige77 on Monday 30th November 10:46
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