Official 2023 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[mat205125]

Jonnny said:

mat205125 said:

GiantCardboardPlato said:

All of these posts about not being allowed to change tyres under a red flag.

I don’t get it.

What is the problem that you are trying to solve?

For me, it's not about changing tyres under the red flag, its about that pit stop counting as the mandatory stop that the driver has to take during the race.

This is my point too, you gain an advantage - when the race has effectively been stopped.

Precisely. There'll always be drivers who are genuinely (or say that they are) on an in-lap for their pit stop when the flag is released, which they'll argue impedes their strategy, however it'll never be possible to please everyone.

I think if a red flag is released, and drivers are already in the pit lane (past the entry), then that tyre change should count as their mandatory stop

[mat205125]

GiantCardboardPlato said:

mat205125 said:

GiantCardboardPlato said:

All of these posts about not being allowed to change tyres under a red flag.

I don’t get it.

What is the problem that you are trying to solve?

For me, it's not about changing tyres under the red flag, its about that pit stop counting as the mandatory stop that the driver has to take during the race.

Yeah, but WHY is that something that you think ought to be prevented? What do you want to achieve?

what’s your view on pit stops under the safety car?

Pit stops under safety cars are fair game, as the race is still going on.

Not having the tyre changes under red flags count as the mandatory stop would prevent drivers like Russell and Sainz in this weekends race feeling screwed, and also prevents a race then shifting to become a switch-to-hards-for-everyone-at-the-same-time procession of tyre preservation to the flag

[oyster]

nikaiyo2 said:

How come Alonso was given 3rd but the Alpines are DNF?

Surely if they count back for one they should for all?

The whole ending under yellow seems quite solvable to my simple mind, incidents within 10 laps of scheduled end result in a red flag and end the race or if yellow flag is shown and would end under yellow 2 laps are added to allow green flag finish, like the “green white chequer” from NASCAR.

Alonso wasn't 'given' 3rd, he finished 3rd.
The Alpines didn't finish.

[Derek Smith]

People keep posting about F1TV, but all I can see is live timing. What am I missing, apart from F1TV?

[Speed Badger]

oyster said:

nikaiyo2 said:

How come Alonso was given 3rd but the Alpines are DNF?

Surely if they count back for one they should for all?

The whole ending under yellow seems quite solvable to my simple mind, incidents within 10 laps of scheduled end result in a red flag and end the race or if yellow flag is shown and would end under yellow 2 laps are added to allow green flag finish, like the “green white chequer” from NASCAR.

Alonso wasn't 'given' 3rd, he finished 3rd.
The Alpines didn't finish.

How come Alonso was classified 3rd in Brazil 2003 after his shunt caused the red flag? He shunted, DNF'd, then on countback was reinstated to 3rd despite his car being scattered across the track in many pieces.

[thegreenhell]

Derek Smith said:

People keep posting about F1TV, but all I can see is live timing. What am I missing, apart from F1TV?

A VPN to make it think you're in a different country that's not under Sky's contractual exclusivity.

[thegreenhell]

Speed Badger said:

oyster said:

nikaiyo2 said:

How come Alonso was given 3rd but the Alpines are DNF?

Surely if they count back for one they should for all?

The whole ending under yellow seems quite solvable to my simple mind, incidents within 10 laps of scheduled end result in a red flag and end the race or if yellow flag is shown and would end under yellow 2 laps are added to allow green flag finish, like the “green white chequer” from NASCAR.

Alonso wasn't 'given' 3rd, he finished 3rd.
The Alpines didn't finish.

How come Alonso was classified 3rd in Brazil 2003 after his shunt caused the red flag? He shunted, DNF'd, then on countback was reinstated to 3rd despite his car being scattered across the track in many pieces.

Because the race wasn't restarted in that instance so it was a countback result.

In Aus this weekend the race was restarted, so only the restarting positions were on countback, but you still had to be able to restart the race in order to finish.

[RicksAlfas]

mat205125 said:

Pit stops under safety cars are fair game, as the race is still going on.

Not having the tyre changes under red flags count as the mandatory stop would prevent drivers like Russell and Sainz in this weekends race feeling screwed, and also prevents a race then shifting to become a switch-to-hards-for-everyone-at-the-same-time procession of tyre preservation to the flag

I would agree with that. The race has been stopped due to an incident on track. Bring all the cars in and don't touch them.
Under a safety car the race is still running and it is a team/driver decision to bring the car in.

[Mr Pointy]

Derek Smith said:

People keep posting about F1TV, but all I can see is live timing. What am I missing, apart from F1TV?

F1TV Pro - you started the thread!
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[GiantCardboardPlato]

RicksAlfas said:

mat205125 said:

Pit stops under safety cars are fair game, as the race is still going on.

Not having the tyre changes under red flags count as the mandatory stop would prevent drivers like Russell and Sainz in this weekends race feeling screwed, and also prevents a race then shifting to become a switch-to-hards-for-everyone-at-the-same-time procession of tyre preservation to the flag

I would agree with that. The race has been stopped due to an incident on track. Bring all the cars in and don't touch them.
Under a safety car the race is still running and it is a team/driver decision to bring the car in.

What's the logic that cars could be worked on during or between practice sessions (i.e. during or outside parts of the event), during races, but not during a red flag period?

The red flag SUSPENDS the race, it doesn't 'STOP' it.

and to mat205125:

- pit stops under safety cars are ok.
- this can generate exactly the situation generated by the red flag: competitor A pits losing 10 places. NExt lap, safety comes out, competitor B pits and only lasting 7 places because of the increased lap time under the safety car.

Why is generation of that advantage/disadvantage OK, but the one generated by teams changing tyres under red flag conditions not ok?

Edited by GiantCardboardPlato on Monday 3rd April 12:22

[thegreenhell]

GiantCardboardPlato said:

The red flag SUSPENDS the race, it doesn't 'STOP' it.

So why are they allowed to perform a pit stop while the race is suspended?

[mat205125]

GiantCardboardPlato said:

RicksAlfas said:

mat205125 said:

Pit stops under safety cars are fair game, as the race is still going on.

Not having the tyre changes under red flags count as the mandatory stop would prevent drivers like Russell and Sainz in this weekends race feeling screwed, and also prevents a race then shifting to become a switch-to-hards-for-everyone-at-the-same-time procession of tyre preservation to the flag

I would agree with that. The race has been stopped due to an incident on track. Bring all the cars in and don't touch them.
Under a safety car the race is still running and it is a team/driver decision to bring the car in.

What's the logic that cars could be worked on during or between practice sessions (i.e. during or outside parts of the event), during races, but not during a red flag period?

The red flag SUSPENDS the race, it doesn't 'STOP' it.

Between practice sessions is fine (within curfew rules), but parc ferme applies from the start of Q1 to the end of the race, with obvious freedoms in some areas.

[GiantCardboardPlato]

thegreenhell said:

GiantCardboardPlato said:

The red flag SUSPENDS the race, it doesn't 'STOP' it.

So why are they allowed to perform a pit stop while the race is suspended?

It's not a pit stop. they are allowed to work on their car. because the teams are allowed to work on their car after the race has started. it sa good time to do it, because everyone else has stopped too.

What if a driver needs the toilet? Should they not be allowed to go during a red flag, in case they get an advantage over others that don't need to go?

There is no rational reason that work on cars shouldn't be allowed during a red flag. If you can't find a good reason, then stick with the default, which is work on the car.

The argument about 'getting an advantage' I dealt with in a previous post. the rules can never eliminate advantages generated by circumstance interacting with the rules and the competitors, so they shouldn't try to.

[LM240]

It was certainly interesting, but I don’t think it was necessarily correct to have so many red flags and that farce of a finish.

I’m pleased I recorded it and started watching an hour or so after the race had started and skipped the SC or red flag bits.

Whilst safety is important, this was too much and if anything worked against maximising safety with the grid restarts.

The Albon and Magnussan incidents really did not need to brings things to a stop. Nothing that could not be controlled by safety car and marshals clearing the track.

Especially after the Grosjean crash, I feel there is a gap for an extra response/extraction car. Crewed by regular team, who can lead corner marshals and have extra extraction/fire kit available.

At the start they travel with the medical car. With a safety car, they deploy ahead of the SC whilst that is capturing the field and controls their speed towards the scene. This crew then direct the best path through the scene and manage the other resources to tidy up as quick as possible.

It also would not be hard to mandate max speeds in certain zones. Sports cars implement slow zones quite easily.

Both SC and red flags are being given so inconsistently lately it does appear to be tipping over toward an entertainment bias.

The final 1 lap behind the SC was also a complete waste of time. What did it really add, there was never going to be any racing again? The final red flag should have been it with clear rules which can be applied. If a scene can’t be cleared under SC before the end, so be it, they just roll over the line. A red flag with 3 laps left or equivalent in lap time if running against the clock, they should be able to say race complete.

Or review the standing start and do it as rolling start instead.

[usn90]

The standing starts after a red flag need to go, it would then remove the entertainment focused suspicions, which aren’t far off the mark imo.

It’s not fair to the drivers either, especially yesterday, couple of laps from the end of a GP and you throw everyone back to a standing start….. can you imagine being a Webber supporter of this rule was in effect back then!

Edited by usn90 on Monday 3rd April 13:03

[PhilAsia]

[Killer2005]

TheDeuce said:

GiantCardboardPlato said:

Jonnny said:

mat205125 said:

GiantCardboardPlato said:

All of these posts about not being allowed to change tyres under a red flag.

I don’t get it.

What is the problem that you are trying to solve?

For me, it's not about changing tyres under the red flag, its about that pit stop counting as the mandatory stop that the driver has to take during the race.

This is my point too, you gain an advantage - when the race has effectively been stopped.

The race stops for everyone, and everyone can change tyres or repair their car. There is no advantage.

It's not the same for everyone, it's a huge advantage to those that haven't already taken their mandatory pit stop.

If you change it you hand the advantage to those who have stopped instead.

[RobGT81]

Deesee said:

Red Flags are rare..

Are they?

From the beginning of 2000 F1 season to the end of 2019 season, there was 19 red flags. Since the beginning the 2020, there has already been 17 red flags.

They are effecting too many races now

[Sandpit Steve]

TheDeuce said:

It's not the same for everyone, it's a huge advantage to those that haven't already taken their mandatory pit stop.

What mandatory pit stop? The rule says nothing about pit stops, only that the car must use two different compounds of tyre during a dry race.

Interesting that, after the race, George said that they’d do the same again. They had to split the strategies, as there was a single RB to annoy and no time to double-stack. Without the later engine failure, he would have been in contention, although it did look like MV was biding his time and just got a poor start.

Edit: If I were to guess, I reckon the strategy discussed beforehand was to pit GR at the earliest oppportunity when he could get on hards that would run to the end, and then to leave LH out as long as possible on the first set, seeing if he could possibly take the softs.

Edited by Sandpit Steve on Monday 3rd April 13:22

[Fundoreen]

Some people seem to want 0-30 laps trundling round behind a safety car. Must be some sort of kinky fetish.