Official 2023 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2023 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 170
Discussion
PhilAsia said:
My problem with grid starts in that it is courting a collision. The collision probability increases as the lap countdown decreases, leading to the debacle we witnessed last Sunday.
- it also opens up the possibility for a cynical move that benefits one competitor over another.
- any buffer that has been gained in the preceding laps is deleted.
Yes funny years ago before regrid starts we were all for them. But now it does seem to breed too much action risk vs a safety car restart.
- it also opens up the possibility for a cynical move that benefits one competitor over another.
- any buffer that has been gained in the preceding laps is deleted.
Yes funny years ago before regrid starts we were all for them. But now it does seem to breed too much action risk vs a safety car restart.
I am glad mclaren got a good haul of points just to rub it in the aussies face. Every single aussie has been bitter as hell in any comments section I have seen about the team. Daniel is a has been that they can't see. You don't see brita getting upset at Julian palmer getting canned even though he was a never been.
vulture1 said:
I am glad mclaren got a good haul of points just to rub it in the aussies face. Every single aussie has been bitter as hell in any comments section I have seen about the team. Daniel is a has been that they can't see. You don't see brita getting upset at Julian palmer getting canned even though he was a never been.
Lando on C4 talking about Piastri was interesting. Something along the lines of "Yeah, he's pushing me, that's something I haven't had in a team mate for a couple of years."RobGT81 said:
Deesee said:
Red Flags are rare..
Are they? From the beginning of 2000 F1 season to the end of 2019 season, there was 19 red flags. Since the beginning the 2020, there has already been 17 red flags.
They are effecting too many races now
audi321 said:
RobGT81 said:
Deesee said:
Red Flags are rare..
Are they? From the beginning of 2000 F1 season to the end of 2019 season, there was 19 red flags. Since the beginning the 2020, there has already been 17 red flags.
They are effecting too many races now
There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
Mr Pointy said:
Derek Smith said:
People keep posting about F1TV, but all I can see is live timing. What am I missing, apart from F1TV?
F1TV Pro - you started the thread!https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I'm pretty sure that thread ended with a fairly detailed 'how to' as well.
PhilAsia said:
My problem with grid starts in that it is courting a collision. The collision probability increases as the lap countdown decreases, leading to the debacle we witnessed last Sunday.
- it also opens up the possibility for a cynical move that benefits one competitor over another.
- any buffer that has been gained in the preceding laps is deleted.
Regridding can work but not with one lap to run, that was asinine. Most of them struggle with impulse control not to try to win the race at the first corner when there's 50+ laps of racing to go. If you need to red flag 5 or so laps from the end and you must restart it then SC start would be only way to go I think.- it also opens up the possibility for a cynical move that benefits one competitor over another.
- any buffer that has been gained in the preceding laps is deleted.
TheDeuce said:
This is my thinking too, they're getting very common and also have the potential to shake up the order, especially if initially it's yellows and a SC and then after a few have pitted they upgrade to red flag. That gives race control the ability determine who wins/loses strategy wise dependant on when they go from SC to red flag.
There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
The events of yesterday call into question the integrity of the sport. As in a famous incident 16 months ago, the rule book seemed to have a lot of room for ‘interpretation’ in the minds of the race officials. There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
Spending half an hour discussing the right order to do a parade lap to the flag, allowed for all sorts of potential shenanigans. Everyone may well have been acting on best instructions, but it’s the impression to the rest of the world that counts.
If the FIA don’t want more FIArce, F1arse, and WWF1 memes out there, they need to get a grip.
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
This is my thinking too, they're getting very common and also have the potential to shake up the order, especially if initially it's yellows and a SC and then after a few have pitted they upgrade to red flag. That gives race control the ability determine who wins/loses strategy wise dependant on when they go from SC to red flag.
There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
The events of yesterday call into question the integrity of the sport. As in a famous incident 16 months ago, the rule book seemed to have a lot of room for ‘interpretation’ in the minds of the race officials. There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
Spending half an hour discussing the right order to do a parade lap to the flag, allowed for all sorts of potential shenanigans. Everyone may well have been acting on best instructions, but it’s the impression to the rest of the world that counts.
If the FIA don’t want more FIArce, F1arse, and WWF1 memes out there, they need to get a grip.
Thereay be some at the FIA and in fact Liberty that are quite happy for a useful degree of ambiguity to remain.
TheDeuce said:
audi321 said:
RobGT81 said:
Deesee said:
Red Flags are rare..
Are they? From the beginning of 2000 F1 season to the end of 2019 season, there was 19 red flags. Since the beginning the 2020, there has already been 17 red flags.
They are effecting too many races now
There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
I get and agree about whether we needed that many flags, especially the second one, but being more cautious for the safety of drivers and marshals is nothing to be sneered at.
LM240 said:
It was certainly interesting, but I don’t think it was necessarily correct to have so many red flags and that farce of a finish.
I’m pleased I recorded it and started watching an hour or so after the race had started and skipped the SC or red flag bits.
Whilst safety is important, this was too much and if anything worked against maximising safety with the grid restarts.
The Albon and Magnussan incidents really did not need to brings things to a stop. Nothing that could not be controlled by safety car and marshals clearing the track.
Especially after the Grosjean crash, I feel there is a gap for an extra response/extraction car. Crewed by regular team, who can lead corner marshals and have extra extraction/fire kit available.
At the start they travel with the medical car. With a safety car, they deploy ahead of the SC whilst that is capturing the field and controls their speed towards the scene. This crew then direct the best path through the scene and manage the other resources to tidy up as quick as possible.
It also would not be hard to mandate max speeds in certain zones. Sports cars implement slow zones quite easily.
Both SC and red flags are being given so inconsistently lately it does appear to be tipping over toward an entertainment bias.
The final 1 lap behind the SC was also a complete waste of time. What did it really add, there was never going to be any racing again? The final red flag should have been it with clear rules which can be applied. If a scene can’t be cleared under SC before the end, so be it, they just roll over the line. A red flag with 3 laps left or equivalent in lap time if running against the clock, they should be able to say race complete.
Or review the standing start and do it as rolling start instead.
Albon broke the Tecpro barrier, which couldn't be repaired under the safety car.I’m pleased I recorded it and started watching an hour or so after the race had started and skipped the SC or red flag bits.
Whilst safety is important, this was too much and if anything worked against maximising safety with the grid restarts.
The Albon and Magnussan incidents really did not need to brings things to a stop. Nothing that could not be controlled by safety car and marshals clearing the track.
Especially after the Grosjean crash, I feel there is a gap for an extra response/extraction car. Crewed by regular team, who can lead corner marshals and have extra extraction/fire kit available.
At the start they travel with the medical car. With a safety car, they deploy ahead of the SC whilst that is capturing the field and controls their speed towards the scene. This crew then direct the best path through the scene and manage the other resources to tidy up as quick as possible.
It also would not be hard to mandate max speeds in certain zones. Sports cars implement slow zones quite easily.
Both SC and red flags are being given so inconsistently lately it does appear to be tipping over toward an entertainment bias.
The final 1 lap behind the SC was also a complete waste of time. What did it really add, there was never going to be any racing again? The final red flag should have been it with clear rules which can be applied. If a scene can’t be cleared under SC before the end, so be it, they just roll over the line. A red flag with 3 laps left or equivalent in lap time if running against the clock, they should be able to say race complete.
Or review the standing start and do it as rolling start instead.
Magnussen's might have been possible, but there was a lot of debris across the entire track.
TheDeuce said:
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
This is my thinking too, they're getting very common and also have the potential to shake up the order, especially if initially it's yellows and a SC and then after a few have pitted they upgrade to red flag. That gives race control the ability determine who wins/loses strategy wise dependant on when they go from SC to red flag.
There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
The events of yesterday call into question the integrity of the sport. As in a famous incident 16 months ago, the rule book seemed to have a lot of room for ‘interpretation’ in the minds of the race officials. There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
Spending half an hour discussing the right order to do a parade lap to the flag, allowed for all sorts of potential shenanigans. Everyone may well have been acting on best instructions, but it’s the impression to the rest of the world that counts.
If the FIA don’t want more FIArce, F1arse, and WWF1 memes out there, they need to get a grip.
Thereay be some at the FIA and in fact Liberty that are quite happy for a useful degree of ambiguity to remain.
FIA need to make sure there’s as little ambiguity as possible in the rules, even if they say an SC five laps from the end will be a red flag with a rolling restart and no tyre changes.
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
This is my thinking too, they're getting very common and also have the potential to shake up the order, especially if initially it's yellows and a SC and then after a few have pitted they upgrade to red flag. That gives race control the ability determine who wins/loses strategy wise dependant on when they go from SC to red flag.
There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
The events of yesterday call into question the integrity of the sport. As in a famous incident 16 months ago, the rule book seemed to have a lot of room for ‘interpretation’ in the minds of the race officials. There's no outright evidence it is being used to purposefully manipulate or 'jazz up' the racing, but it bothers me that it very easily could be used that way, especially now it happens a lot more frequently than in fairly recent history.
Spending half an hour discussing the right order to do a parade lap to the flag, allowed for all sorts of potential shenanigans. Everyone may well have been acting on best instructions, but it’s the impression to the rest of the world that counts.
If the FIA don’t want more FIArce, F1arse, and WWF1 memes out there, they need to get a grip.
Thereay be some at the FIA and in fact Liberty that are quite happy for a useful degree of ambiguity to remain.
FIA need to make sure there’s as little ambiguity as possible in the rules, even if they say an SC five laps from the end will be a red flag with a rolling restart and no tyre changes.
Sandpit Steve said:
Liberty will be all for as much ambiguity as possible, that’s IMHO a massive part of the problem we now face.
And that's why the EU forced the FIA to separate the governance of the sport from the commercial management of the sport. Hence the bargain basement sale of commercial rights to BCE and there eventual purchase by Liberty.Liberty have an input but it's the FIA who write the rules and it's the FIA who manage and enforce them.
TheDeuce said:
I think the FIA are as invested in the sport being a good show as Liberty are, and are perhaps very happy themselves to leave in small areas of the rules and governance that does allow a level of influence over how a season or key race takes shape.
Yes, which is the root of the problem. realjv said:
And that's why the EU forced the FIA to separate the governance of the sport from the commercial management of the sport. Hence the bargain basement sale of commercial rights to BCE and there eventual purchase by Liberty.
Liberty have an input but it's the FIA who write the rules and it's the FIA who manage and enforce them.
Amercians love stop-start sports, look at their football. Helps viewers who suffer from short attention spans.Liberty have an input but it's the FIA who write the rules and it's the FIA who manage and enforce them.
12 mini segments to each future Grand Prix ?
Sandpit Steve said:
If I were to guess, I reckon the strategy discussed beforehand was to pit GR at the earliest oppportunity when he could get on hards that would run to the end, and then to leave LH out as long as possible on the first set, seeing if he could possibly take the softs.
]
Not sure about that Steve. His radio message asking for Lewis to be told to back off suggested that GR was irritated/alarmed by being pushed {EDIT: would he have been so vocal if he was going to use up his rubber in a short banzai 1st stint?} and (perhaps) did not think Lewis was going to run long. ]
TBH I was unsure what Lewis was meant to do as DRS got Lewis within 0.2sec of Russell and Max 0.2 of Lewis... If Lewis had slowed Max would have passed.
Edited by PhilAsia on Monday 3rd April 14:58
PhilAsia said:
Sandpit Steve said:
If I were to guess, I reckon the strategy discussed beforehand was to pit GR at the earliest oppportunity when he could get on hards that would run to the end, and then to leave LH out as long as possible on the first set, seeing if he could possibly take the softs.
]
Not sure about that Steve. His radio message asking for Lewis to be told to back off suggested that GR was irritated/alarmed by being pushed {EDIT: would he have been so vocal if he was going to use up his rubber in a short banzai 1st stint?} and (perhaps) did not think Lewis was going to run long. ]
TBH I was unsure what Lewis was meant to do as DRS got Lewis within 0.2sec of Russell and Max 0.2 of Lewis... If Lewis had slowed Max would have passed.
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