Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?

[anonymous-user]

MarkwG said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

paulguitar said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

So you're a troll if you don't agree that Hamilton is the GOAT of F1.

Why does the title of this topic have a question mark? Why not rename it the Hamilton love crew?

No, you're a troll because you are completely blinkered when presented with information that doesn't suit your narrative, you repeatedly refuse to learn from people with much greater understanding and knowledge than you, notably people involved in the sport such as team managers and drivers, both current and retired. You try to make arguments from illogical, ridiculous positions such as Button getting more points over a 3-year span.

And now I've gone and done what I said we shouldn't, fed the troll...

Button did get more points over a 3-year span so is that not factual? Everyone said at the time Button was crazy moving to McLaren and it was said Hamilton wasn't happy but that could just be the media.

Yes, Hamilton beat Button 2-1 over three seasons but it was extremely close.

Who is the best driver statistically from 2010 to 2020? Hamilton.

But I still don't agree that he is the GOAT but definitely top 5 with his stats.

Your use of your cherry picked stats to prove your point is what makes you a troll: if you're going to measure Button against Hamilton, why not show the bigger picture?
Button raced in 16 F1 seasons, got one championship, 15 wins, 50 podiums & 1235 points - quite a good tally, all things considered, & I speak as a Button fan.
Hamilton has raced in one less F1 season (including the 2021, only one race in), has won seven championships, 96 wins, 166 podiums, & 3803 points - & he's not finished yet. See why your argument seems so ridiculous?

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.

Button has only had one car which was far superior to the rest of the field for half a season. The Brawn car.

Hamilton has had that luxury since 2014.

Facts mate.

[Muzzer79]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.
.

Evidenced by him beating Hamilton in the championship in each of those seasons......oh wait.....

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Facts mate

Indeed.

[Derek Smith]

paulguitar said:

And now I've gone and done what I said we shouldn't, fed the troll...

So many, oh so many, of us have been there. Don't bang your head. Reading the replies will be punishment enough. Learn from it.

I correspond via email with another two or three F1 nerds after races, and after Sunday I said to them that Hamilton's drive will, at last, prove to his critics that he is one of the greatest of all time. It was so patently obvious that it was meant as a joke that I didn't have to qualify it. It was, in fact, quite funny. However, that fact that it was obvious is sort of sad.

I've read all sorts of justifications for MV not being able to beat LH despite being in the faster car. One reckoned that RB had torpedoed his race. There's so much wrong with that suggestion that it's not worth pointing out the non-sequiters. On friend said that she was challenged online to deny that Merc tactics helped LH win. Where do these people come from? I know it has to be somewhere dark. Let's hope it's far away. Shame it's got internet access.

It was a fabulous race on Sunday. One to cherish. I've replayed it once and will probably do so again. It was that good. It stood out in a series of seasons with memorable races. Why can't people just enjoy that?

[MarkwG]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

MarkwG said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

paulguitar said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

So you're a troll if you don't agree that Hamilton is the GOAT of F1.

Why does the title of this topic have a question mark? Why not rename it the Hamilton love crew?

No, you're a troll because you are completely blinkered when presented with information that doesn't suit your narrative, you repeatedly refuse to learn from people with much greater understanding and knowledge than you, notably people involved in the sport such as team managers and drivers, both current and retired. You try to make arguments from illogical, ridiculous positions such as Button getting more points over a 3-year span.

And now I've gone and done what I said we shouldn't, fed the troll...

Button did get more points over a 3-year span so is that not factual? Everyone said at the time Button was crazy moving to McLaren and it was said Hamilton wasn't happy but that could just be the media.

Yes, Hamilton beat Button 2-1 over three seasons but it was extremely close.

Who is the best driver statistically from 2010 to 2020? Hamilton.

But I still don't agree that he is the GOAT but definitely top 5 with his stats.

Your use of your cherry picked stats to prove your point is what makes you a troll: if you're going to measure Button against Hamilton, why not show the bigger picture?
Button raced in 16 F1 seasons, got one championship, 15 wins, 50 podiums & 1235 points - quite a good tally, all things considered, & I speak as a Button fan.
Hamilton has raced in one less F1 season (including the 2021, only one race in), has won seven championships, 96 wins, 166 podiums, & 3803 points - & he's not finished yet. See why your argument seems so ridiculous?

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.

Button has only had one car which was far superior to the rest of the field for half a season. The Brawn car.

Hamilton has had that luxury since 2014.

Facts mate.

No "mate" - what you've got are opinions based on cherry picked data combined with your personal biases. The actual facts speak for themselves.

[anonymous-user]

MarkwG said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

MarkwG said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

paulguitar said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

So you're a troll if you don't agree that Hamilton is the GOAT of F1.

Why does the title of this topic have a question mark? Why not rename it the Hamilton love crew?

No, you're a troll because you are completely blinkered when presented with information that doesn't suit your narrative, you repeatedly refuse to learn from people with much greater understanding and knowledge than you, notably people involved in the sport such as team managers and drivers, both current and retired. You try to make arguments from illogical, ridiculous positions such as Button getting more points over a 3-year span.

And now I've gone and done what I said we shouldn't, fed the troll...

Button did get more points over a 3-year span so is that not factual? Everyone said at the time Button was crazy moving to McLaren and it was said Hamilton wasn't happy but that could just be the media.

Yes, Hamilton beat Button 2-1 over three seasons but it was extremely close.

Who is the best driver statistically from 2010 to 2020? Hamilton.

But I still don't agree that he is the GOAT but definitely top 5 with his stats.

Your use of your cherry picked stats to prove your point is what makes you a troll: if you're going to measure Button against Hamilton, why not show the bigger picture?
Button raced in 16 F1 seasons, got one championship, 15 wins, 50 podiums & 1235 points - quite a good tally, all things considered, & I speak as a Button fan.
Hamilton has raced in one less F1 season (including the 2021, only one race in), has won seven championships, 96 wins, 166 podiums, & 3803 points - & he's not finished yet. See why your argument seems so ridiculous?

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.

Button has only had one car which was far superior to the rest of the field for half a season. The Brawn car.

Hamilton has had that luxury since 2014.

Facts mate.

No "mate" - what you've got are opinions based on cherry picked data combined with your personal biases. The actual facts speak for themselves.

I would still state it as facts. Maybe just doesn't fit your personal bias.

[anonymous-user]

Muzzer79 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.
.

Evidenced by him beating Hamilton in the championship in each of those seasons......oh wait.....

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Facts mate

Indeed.

2/1 Hamilton by 2 points in the final season and you are arguing.

[anonymous-user]

M5-911 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Button did get more points over a 3-year span so is that not factual? Everyone said at the time Button was crazy moving to McLaren and it was said Hamilton wasn't happy but that could just be the media.

Yes, Hamilton beat Button 2-1 over three seasons but it was extremely close.

Who is the best driver statistically from 2010 to 2020? Hamilton.

But I still don't agree that he is the GOAT but definitely top 5 with his stats.

You are actually right about Hamilton not being happy. In 2010 with the arrival of Button to the team they choose to work on the car to make it more to Jenson "flavour" as they thought it might help them getting better. They knew that Hamilton could kind of adapt his driving style to the the car (I can't remember if it was to do with the balance at the rear or front? ).
Problem, the car was actually worst than they thought and Hamilton voiced the issue a few times and explain how they could go towards a better car for both driver by changing a few things. Of course they ignore it for a while until they decided to try it. Surprise the car was a lot better but it was to late in the season, they carried the idea to 2011 which benefited greatly mclaren as Button managed 2nd in the championship.
It was said that that refusal of McLaren to listen to Hamilton despite he proved the engineers they were wrong was the begining of the disinterest of Hamilton for McLaren.

No wonder Brawn and Lauda snatch him from McLaren. They knew he was going to help them change a car from being good to a winning championship car.

So in 2010, they listened to Button and Hamilton outscored him by 26 points.

In 2011 they went with Hamilton's ideas and Button outscored Hamilton by 43 points.

Is that what your trying to say?

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

paulguitar said:

And now I've gone and done what I said we shouldn't, fed the troll...

So many, oh so many, of us have been there. Don't bang your head. Reading the replies will be punishment enough. Learn from it.

I correspond via email with another two or three F1 nerds after races, and after Sunday I said to them that Hamilton's drive will, at last, prove to his critics that he is one of the greatest of all time. It was so patently obvious that it was meant as a joke that I didn't have to qualify it. It was, in fact, quite funny. However, that fact that it was obvious is sort of sad.

I've read all sorts of justifications for MV not being able to beat LH despite being in the faster car. One reckoned that RB had torpedoed his race. There's so much wrong with that suggestion that it's not worth pointing out the non-sequiters. On friend said that she was challenged online to deny that Merc tactics helped LH win. Where do these people come from? I know it has to be somewhere dark. Let's hope it's far away. Shame it's got internet access.

It was a fabulous race on Sunday. One to cherish. I've replayed it once and will probably do so again. It was that good. It stood out in a series of seasons with memorable races. Why can't people just enjoy that?

As you state Hamilton will be remembered as one of the greatest.

[MarkwG]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

MarkwG said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

MarkwG said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

paulguitar said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

So you're a troll if you don't agree that Hamilton is the GOAT of F1.

Why does the title of this topic have a question mark? Why not rename it the Hamilton love crew?

No, you're a troll because you are completely blinkered when presented with information that doesn't suit your narrative, you repeatedly refuse to learn from people with much greater understanding and knowledge than you, notably people involved in the sport such as team managers and drivers, both current and retired. You try to make arguments from illogical, ridiculous positions such as Button getting more points over a 3-year span.

And now I've gone and done what I said we shouldn't, fed the troll...

Button did get more points over a 3-year span so is that not factual? Everyone said at the time Button was crazy moving to McLaren and it was said Hamilton wasn't happy but that could just be the media.

Yes, Hamilton beat Button 2-1 over three seasons but it was extremely close.

Who is the best driver statistically from 2010 to 2020? Hamilton.

But I still don't agree that he is the GOAT but definitely top 5 with his stats.

Your use of your cherry picked stats to prove your point is what makes you a troll: if you're going to measure Button against Hamilton, why not show the bigger picture?
Button raced in 16 F1 seasons, got one championship, 15 wins, 50 podiums & 1235 points - quite a good tally, all things considered, & I speak as a Button fan.
Hamilton has raced in one less F1 season (including the 2021, only one race in), has won seven championships, 96 wins, 166 podiums, & 3803 points - & he's not finished yet. See why your argument seems so ridiculous?

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.

Button has only had one car which was far superior to the rest of the field for half a season. The Brawn car.

Hamilton has had that luxury since 2014.

Facts mate.

No "mate" - what you've got are opinions based on cherry picked data combined with your personal biases. The actual facts speak for themselves.

I would still state it as facts. Maybe just doesn't fit your personal bias.

And you wonder why people say you're a troll - fact means a thing that is known or proved to be true. Opinion is not fact. What you state is neither here nor there.

[HighwayStar]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

paulguitar said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

So you're a troll if you don't agree that Hamilton is the GOAT of F1.

Why does the title of this topic have a question mark? Why not rename it the Hamilton love crew?

No, you're a troll because you are completely blinkered when presented with information that doesn't suit your narrative, you repeatedly refuse to learn from people with much greater understanding and knowledge than you, notably people involved in the sport such as team managers and drivers, both current and retired. You try to make arguments from illogical, ridiculous positions such as Button getting more points over a 3-year span.

And now I've gone and done what I said we shouldn't, fed the troll...

Button did get more points over a 3-year span so is that not factual? Everyone said at the time Button was crazy moving to McLaren and it was said Hamilton wasn't happy but that could just be the media.

Yes, Hamilton beat Button 2-1 over three seasons but it was extremely close.

Who is the best driver statistically from 2010 to 2020? Hamilton.

But I still don't agree that he is the GOAT but definitely top 5 with his stats.

With Button ‘outperforming Hamilton over three years,’ with your wisdom and clarity of thought... can you help me understand why Mercedes, with the fact you highlighted, went after Hamilton rather than the more obvious Button? Button said Hamilton was mad to go there, do you think they approached Button first but were rejected? Any facts you can add would be much appreciated.

[anonymous-user]

HighwayStar said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

paulguitar said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

So you're a troll if you don't agree that Hamilton is the GOAT of F1.

Why does the title of this topic have a question mark? Why not rename it the Hamilton love crew?

No, you're a troll because you are completely blinkered when presented with information that doesn't suit your narrative, you repeatedly refuse to learn from people with much greater understanding and knowledge than you, notably people involved in the sport such as team managers and drivers, both current and retired. You try to make arguments from illogical, ridiculous positions such as Button getting more points over a 3-year span.

And now I've gone and done what I said we shouldn't, fed the troll...

Button did get more points over a 3-year span so is that not factual? Everyone said at the time Button was crazy moving to McLaren and it was said Hamilton wasn't happy but that could just be the media.

Yes, Hamilton beat Button 2-1 over three seasons but it was extremely close.

Who is the best driver statistically from 2010 to 2020? Hamilton.

But I still don't agree that he is the GOAT but definitely top 5 with his stats.

With Button ‘outperforming Hamilton over three years,’ with your wisdom and clarity of thought... can you help me understand why Mercedes, with the fact you highlighted, went after Hamilton rather than the more obvious Button? Button said Hamilton was mad to go there, do you think they approached Button first but were rejected? Any facts you can add would be much appreciated.

At what point did I say Button outperformed Hamilton? I stated Hamilton 2/1 against Button but it was very close.

Hamilton took a risk and it paid off more than he or Mercedes would ever have imagined.

Don't tell me during 2013 Hamilton would have been questioning his decision when he was 208 points behind Vettel come the end of 2013.

[M5-911]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

So in 2010, they listened to Button and Hamilton outscored him by 26 points.

In 2011 they went with Hamilton's ideas and Button outscored Hamilton by 43 points.

Is that what your trying to say?

Indeed, Hamilton wrestled the car in 2010 to make it work. 2011, the car was better but Hamilton year was a nightmare from end to finish. Him and Massa were playing bumper car! Lol

[Gary C]

Gary C said:

Christ

This is all utter bks.

And its bks because

there is no such thing as a GOAT

That is the thing that is really total bks.

[vdn]

Jim chooses 'facts' (that are actually opinions) as his base for any debate. When presented with actual facts he runs a mile and ignores them. Like when he said that all the teams and staff voted Hamilton best driver 'just because he won' which is utter rubbish and when presented with the fact that they voted for him even when Rosberg won ... he runs for the hills. Jim that is, not Rosberg. Although Rosberg did also run for the hills

What's that they say about arguing with idiots?

[deeen]

vdn said:

Jim chooses 'facts' (that are actually opinions) as his base for any debate. When presented with actual facts he runs a mile and ignores them. Like when he said that all the teams and staff voted Hamilton best driver 'just because he won' which is utter rubbish and when presented with the fact that they voted for him even when Rosberg won ... he runs for the hills. Jim that is, not Rosberg. Although Rosberg did also run for the hills

What's that they say about arguing with idiots?

Did you just prove that EJ is Rosberg? Could explain a few things...

[Muzzer79]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Muzzer79 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.
.

Evidenced by him beating Hamilton in the championship in each of those seasons......oh wait.....

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Facts mate

Indeed.

2/1 Hamilton by 2 points in the final season and you are arguing.

Well, yes. Because you’re quoting ‘facts’ in the same post as saying Button was more than a match for Hamilton

Had that been the case, he’d have beaten him in the championship each year or even just simply won more races. But he didn’t.....which is a fact.

Do you need a crayon drawing to understand this?

Edited by Muzzer79 on Saturday 3rd April 19:32

[General Price]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.

Button has only had one car which was far superior to the rest of the field for half a season. The Brawn car.

Hamilton has had that luxury since 2014.

Facts mate.

Ferrari would have had 2 championships since 2014 if Hamilton had been driving for them.

[vdn]

deeen said:

vdn said:

Jim chooses 'facts' (that are actually opinions) as his base for any debate. When presented with actual facts he runs a mile and ignores them. Like when he said that all the teams and staff voted Hamilton best driver 'just because he won' which is utter rubbish and when presented with the fact that they voted for him even when Rosberg won ... he runs for the hills. Jim that is, not Rosberg. Although Rosberg did also run for the hills

What's that they say about arguing with idiots?

Did you just prove that EJ is Rosberg? Could explain a few things...

I've never seen them in the same room

[HighwayStar]

vdn said:

Jim chooses 'facts' (that are actually opinions) as his base for any debate. When presented with actual facts he runs a mile and ignores them. Like when he said that all the teams and staff voted Hamilton best driver 'just because he won' which is utter rubbish and when presented with the fact that they voted for him even when Rosberg won ... he runs for the hills. Jim that is, not Rosberg. Although Rosberg did also run for the hills

What's that they say about arguing with idiots?

It’s amusing watching Jimbo’s mental gymnastics

[anonymous-user]

Muzzer79 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Muzzer79 said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Button showed he was more than a match for Hamilton over three seasons.
.

Evidenced by him beating Hamilton in the championship in each of those seasons......oh wait.....

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Facts mate

Indeed.

2/1 Hamilton by 2 points in the final season and you are arguing.

Well, yes. Because you’re quoting ‘facts’ in the same post as saying Button was more than a match for Hamilton

Had that been the case, he’d have beaten him in the championship each year or even just simply won more races. But he didn’t.....which is a fact.

Do you need a crayon drawing to understand this?

Edited by Muzzer79 on Saturday 3rd April 19:32

What a bizarre response.

Button lost out to Hamilton by 2 points in their final season and over the three seasons they were together he outscored Hamilton.

So he was more than a match.