Daniel Ricciardo
Discussion
cgt2 said:
Aids0G said:
While his time at Mclaren has been poor, I feel that had he gone to Ferrari last year over Carlos we would have seen a very different Daniel possibly the very best and even on par with Leclerc for race pace.
I doubt that. The pressure and expectation at Ferrari and by the Italian media is of a complete different level to McLaren. If Lando has obliterated him Charles would have done worse. Remember Vettel in 2019?It's worth remembering he jumped into Renault and beat Hulk - the German a more over rated driver than the Aussie.
It's an odd one. Danny has been beaten by teammates before, but never made to look mediocre like this. He was always close to them overall, and he's been ahead in his career more than he's been behind. He also thumped Vettel and Ocon in their seasons as his teammate.
Sainz was beaten by Hulk at Renault but went to McLaren and beat Lando. Danny has done the opposite. It's clear that Lando is quite special and on an upward curve as he got steadily closer to Sainz over their two seasons together. He's obviously more comfortable in the team and the car than Danny.
There's more to this than simply 'he's overrated'. His past performances brought him to this level of expectation that he is now underdelivering on. He's matched up to and beaten too many other drivers to have fluked it or be overrated.
Sainz was beaten by Hulk at Renault but went to McLaren and beat Lando. Danny has done the opposite. It's clear that Lando is quite special and on an upward curve as he got steadily closer to Sainz over their two seasons together. He's obviously more comfortable in the team and the car than Danny.
There's more to this than simply 'he's overrated'. His past performances brought him to this level of expectation that he is now underdelivering on. He's matched up to and beaten too many other drivers to have fluked it or be overrated.
I have always liked him and his personality, before McLaren he performed well but I ever saw him as top tier; Hamilton and Verstappen and championship material.
It is sad how he's ended up though, but I guess he's coining it and is now set up for life, he must feel pretty grim in himself about how it's all turned out for him though, not that it shows publicly.
It is sad how he's ended up though, but I guess he's coining it and is now set up for life, he must feel pretty grim in himself about how it's all turned out for him though, not that it shows publicly.
As alluded to by a poster above, I wonder how much the natural handling balance of a chassis has to do with a drivers results? And is this a modern phenomenon?
I can’t ever recall Mansell, Senna, Prost really, really struggling with a dud car. They just seemed to drive around the problem.
Is it not possible for drivers to almost ‘set-up’ their way out of / around a chassis that doesn’t match their natural style? Are the cars really operating in such a narrow window now?
I can’t ever recall Mansell, Senna, Prost really, really struggling with a dud car. They just seemed to drive around the problem.
Is it not possible for drivers to almost ‘set-up’ their way out of / around a chassis that doesn’t match their natural style? Are the cars really operating in such a narrow window now?
If we were still in the era of single car teams (sadly , long gone) we'd be saying how awful the 2022 McLaren is. , had Ricciardo been the sole driver.
I was at Silverstone for practice and qualifying , watching at a number of different points and the difference between the two McLarens was in stark focus. Norris was mighty, especially through Copse , where his commitment was total - you could even hear him as he thwacked the outside kerb on entry, the brrrrrr over the apex and brrrrr over the exit. He seemed to be the only driver doing this lap after lap , although Verstappen's commitment was incredibly fast too.
In comparison , Ric just looked almost hesitant , still quick (as they all are ) but lacking that balls out commitment . It's hard to tell at high speeds but certainly at the much slower Village he seemed to be understeering noticeably , but I felt that was down to the driver more than the car .
I struggle to think of a fall from grace like his - perhaps Rosberg in 86 , where he was visibly struggling with a car which suited Prost's style more than Keke's swashbuckling heroics . We've all see drivers go off at the end of their careers, in my case from Hill (G) to Raikkonen , but Ric's demise seems both sudden and premature -and wholly unexpected after his Red Bull gig.
I was at Silverstone for practice and qualifying , watching at a number of different points and the difference between the two McLarens was in stark focus. Norris was mighty, especially through Copse , where his commitment was total - you could even hear him as he thwacked the outside kerb on entry, the brrrrrr over the apex and brrrrr over the exit. He seemed to be the only driver doing this lap after lap , although Verstappen's commitment was incredibly fast too.
In comparison , Ric just looked almost hesitant , still quick (as they all are ) but lacking that balls out commitment . It's hard to tell at high speeds but certainly at the much slower Village he seemed to be understeering noticeably , but I felt that was down to the driver more than the car .
I struggle to think of a fall from grace like his - perhaps Rosberg in 86 , where he was visibly struggling with a car which suited Prost's style more than Keke's swashbuckling heroics . We've all see drivers go off at the end of their careers, in my case from Hill (G) to Raikkonen , but Ric's demise seems both sudden and premature -and wholly unexpected after his Red Bull gig.
cgt2 said:
Yes I saw Eddie Jordan admit over the weekend that he ordered Ralf not to challenge in Spa and hold station behind Damon. Which we knew already
I was thinking of quite a long time after that, Damon's last season. He started to have a bit of a crisis, basically. It's covered in detail in Damon's book and is fascinating reading.It must be something to do with the McLaren being weird but suiting Norris, as it is all he has ever known in F1.
I am sure I read somewhere that Carlos has mentioned how weird the McLaren was to drive compared to other cars. For years McLaren were blaming Honda for their performance, but it turned out the chassis was gash too.
Driver technique and sensitivity has always interested me - you can get almost identical lap times from two drivers with completely different setups and techniques - look at Perez - struggling last year and now much closer and even beating Verstappen. Vettel was amazing when the Red Bull suited his style.
And then we get drivers like Alonso who could get an Asda shopping trolley with wonky wheels into the points.
I am sure I read somewhere that Carlos has mentioned how weird the McLaren was to drive compared to other cars. For years McLaren were blaming Honda for their performance, but it turned out the chassis was gash too.
Driver technique and sensitivity has always interested me - you can get almost identical lap times from two drivers with completely different setups and techniques - look at Perez - struggling last year and now much closer and even beating Verstappen. Vettel was amazing when the Red Bull suited his style.
And then we get drivers like Alonso who could get an Asda shopping trolley with wonky wheels into the points.
Emeye said:
It must be something to do with the McLaren being weird but suiting Norris, as it is all he has ever known in F1.
I am sure I read somewhere that Carlos has mentioned how weird the McLaren was to drive compared to other cars. For years McLaren were blaming Honda for their performance, but it turned out the chassis was gash too.
Driver technique and sensitivity has always interested me - you can get almost identical lap times from two drivers with completely different setups and techniques - look at Perez - struggling last year and now much closer and even beating Verstappen. Vettel was amazing when the Red Bull suited his style.
And then we get drivers like Alonso who could get an Asda shopping trolley with wonky wheels into the points.
This video by The Race I thought explained it quite well last year. Mclaren analysed why he was lacking. Looks like, as mentioned in the video, aspects of the design ethos HAVE carried over to the 2022 car, and he's still been unable to adaptI am sure I read somewhere that Carlos has mentioned how weird the McLaren was to drive compared to other cars. For years McLaren were blaming Honda for their performance, but it turned out the chassis was gash too.
Driver technique and sensitivity has always interested me - you can get almost identical lap times from two drivers with completely different setups and techniques - look at Perez - struggling last year and now much closer and even beating Verstappen. Vettel was amazing when the Red Bull suited his style.
And then we get drivers like Alonso who could get an Asda shopping trolley with wonky wheels into the points.
https://youtu.be/1KNh7uMx6_c
Although he regarded as "the last of the late brakers" that's apparently only when he's overtaking, he actually likes to brake early, and float it through the corner, carrying the speed. But the McLaren likes to be on the nose, to mitigate understeer. So everything he's doing is counterintuitive, whereas Norris has managed to make it work.
I can't see him lasting there, if he's been unable to adapt up to now, why should we expect he'll be able to turn it around quickly?
I like Ricciardo, but being unable to adapt as some others have demonstrated is not the sign of a great driver
Uncle Joe with the rumour from Silverstone that McLaren might be looking to replace one Australian with another, and sign Oscar Piastri to replace DR.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/07/07/green-n...
Possibly an exit to Indycar for Danny, if McLaren can create another seat there for him. That big smile would be pretty marketable Stateside.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/07/07/green-n...
Possibly an exit to Indycar for Danny, if McLaren can create another seat there for him. That big smile would be pretty marketable Stateside.
Sandpit Steve said:
Uncle Joe with the rumour from Silverstone that McLaren might be looking to replace one Australian with another, and sign Oscar Piastri to replace DR.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/07/07/green-n...
Possibly an exit to Indycar for Danny, if McLaren can create another seat there for him. That big smile would be pretty marketable Stateside.
It would be a shame to see Ric go, but his current performance is disappointing. I think perhaps a combination of a great team mate, car dynamics he cannot fathom/work around and negativity affecting his mindset, all compounding his performance.https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/07/07/green-n...
Possibly an exit to Indycar for Danny, if McLaren can create another seat there for him. That big smile would be pretty marketable Stateside.
However, on the upside, I am relishing seeing what Piastri can do!!
I'm surprised that Alpine would let Piastri go.
Alonso, for all his quality, is 41 years old. Another two year deal and he'll be 43.
Would I let a very promising young talent go for a guy in the winter of his career? No.
The obvious option is some kind of loan deal but I can't see McLaren going for that....
Alonso, for all his quality, is 41 years old. Another two year deal and he'll be 43.
Would I let a very promising young talent go for a guy in the winter of his career? No.
The obvious option is some kind of loan deal but I can't see McLaren going for that....
vaud said:
confucuis said:
Gasly would have been a good driver to get, stuck in the AT for years with no sign of promotion to the senior team but he's signed an extension with AT.
Only one year; my guess is he will go to Merc after Hamilton retires.My guess is that Mercedes will go for Lando unless George is the next Messiah and they want someone more compliant. Even then, they're not going near Gasly.
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