Alonso to leave Ferrari?
Discussion
Gaz. said:
vonuber said:
Indeed. And yet he is held in higher regard for his character than vettel eho had the temerity to disobey team orders (which people usually oppose except in this instance) and overtake his teammate to go for a win. Most bizarre.
.
Really? A considerable number on here consider him to be a complete and utter a.
hole, or as one Mclaren employee put it "an awesome driver, but a total bd".I don't really see the point labouring why so many rate Alonso as a driver to fans of only one driver, who watch only 1 man and can only see one viewpoint. Fans of the sport rarely need nor ask for any explanation.
d' is the actual job description for F1 WDC!! 
ash73 said:
Re drivers:
OK, I have been trying to temper my conversation so as not to offend the rabid driver fanboys here, but I do not think I am being inconsistent.toppstuff said:
I am from the Frank Williams school of thought when it comes to drivers
toppstuff said:
Alonso is special in that sometimes he seems to perform better than expected
Re traction control:toppstuff said:
Personally, I think there may more to it than just theory
toppstuff said:
I am not saying that this is happening
Make your blooming mind up It is quite possible to appreciate that some drivers have more skill than others. I have said on several occasions that Seb is one of the best in the circus right now, as is Alonso.
But this is not incompatible with the view that I have, that the role of the car and team is greater than people probably credit. And I stand by my position that Seb is NOT some driving god possessed of special powers.
I also suspect ( but of course cannot prove ) that Seb's car is different to Marks and that it certainly has a technological advantage that makes it untouchable. I think even Seb knows this- so much so that he now bows down and worships the car on his knees at the end of races !
Does Seb have "traction control" ? I don't know what you call it, but I do believe that Seb's car is helping him in ways that other drivers are not currently enjoying.
He's only got a throttle and a steering wheel after all, like all the others. The way his RB leaps out of the first corners in a race without a wriggle and gains several car lengths in a couple of hundred metres, seems to be more than just down to the driver's special gifts. Indeed, given the relative parity of drivers in terms of outright speed ( not least what we know about drivers inherent speed from other series and seasons - witness Vettel in F3 for example ) and it seems the logical assumption is that cold, hard, engineering advantages are much more likely than superhuman abilities to defy the laws of physics.
Going back O/T to the subject of Fernando, I would rather he stayed at Ferrari. But one of the reasons I rate him is simply because he has more experience in more cars and more teams. He has driven with bad cars and good cars and acquitted himself well in both. I stand by the view that until Sebastien also has a couple of years in a sub-optimal car, we can't really know if he is just excellent as he is now, or one of the best. He's young and we need to wait a couple of years perhaps..
DanielSan said:
beez said:
Didnt Alonso also have great starts when he was with Renault? Though that was the TC era.
He made good starts in the Renault, Mclaren and Ferrari. He even used to get the Minardi off the line pretty well, he's just good at them.SlipStream77 said:
thiscocks said:
I rate Alonso over Vettel mainly because he doesn't look like he's going to cry whenever he's not winning.
I think I'd cry if I didn't win in Vettel's car.Anyhow Alonso has had his fair share of lip wobbling... No issue with being passionate. Even Mika did - at Monza wasn't it? I don't hold him in any less regard for crying. Schumacher did in a post race press conference (at the race where a Marshall died?)
Vaud said:
Anyhow Alonso has had his fair share of lip wobbling... No issue with being passionate. Even Mika did - at Monza wasn't it? I don't hold him in any less regard for crying. Schumacher did in a post race press conference (at the race where a Marshall died?)
Jasandjules said:
toppstuff said:
I stand by the view that until Sebastien also has a couple of years in a sub-optimal car, we can't really know if he is just excellent as he is now, or one of the best. He's young and we need to wait a couple of years perhaps..
Uh, 2006, 2007, 2008?In 2006 Vettel didn't take part in a race as he was the BMW team's 3rd driver, so there is no insight to be had.
In 2007 Vettel only took part in 1 race with BMW and then a further 7 races with RB Torro Rosso and to be fair he did a better job than Liuzzi who raced all season in the RBTR and finshed four places lower in the WDC.
In 2008 Vettel had his first full season in F1 and a win at Monza in the rain, this time he trounced his team mate (Bourdais)and I suppose it is this season which really shows the potential best.
I think toppstuff's point is that when a driver is in the lower teams at the start of their career then there is considerably less pressure, what he like many others would like to see (myself included) is how Vettel copes with the situation of a car which is not the class of the field after having won the WDC.
Personally I'd have liked to have seen the 2012 season come on the back of the 2010 season since this would have been a much better indicator of Vettel's class (2011 was far too dominant).
All the best
Richard
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