Official 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[BunkMoreland]

SmoothCriminal said:

Max can't race.

He either crashes into the other driver or forces them off the track.

He will have records but doesn't deserve to be put in the same breath as Schumi or Alonso or senna

I agree he can't race wheel to wheel. But ironically he is in the same breath as Michael and Ayrton in the "I'm putting my car there and if you dont avoid me, we'll crash"


Theres a video on YT of Hamilton saying he "treats Max differently when racing wheel to wheel" and then they ask Seb the same question and he just agrees with Lewis. Thats telling.

I can genuinely imagine a moment for Max before the end of his career, where he'll literally T bone his title competitor to win the title. I simply cant think of any champ from the last 30 years (aside from the aforementioned) that would do that.

[HustleRussell]

1,600 posts

Literally the biggest race weekend thread of the season

Of course according to PH and Max Verstappen the Las Vegas Grand Prix is an empty event- officially the moment F1 jumped the shark.

There is not a better image to illustrate the mighty about-turn than Max Verstappen wearing an Elvis themed race suit and literally singing 'Viva Las Vegas' down the radio

[EmailAddress]

honda_exige said:

Think Liberty want to spread them across the US timezones.

I'd bet on it being replaced by a Dallas street circuit someday

Can you imagine...

[520TORQUES]

HustleRussell said:

1,600 posts

Literally the biggest race weekend thread of the season

Of course according to PH and Max Verstappen the Las Vegas Grand Prix is an empty event- officially the moment F1 jumped the shark.

There is not a better image to illustrate the mighty about-turn than Max Verstappen wearing an Elvis themed race suit and literally singing 'Viva Las Vegas' down the radio

Divide that by 2, the thread was started a week earlier than usual and the post count reflects that.

[EmailAddress]

BunkMoreland said:

SmoothCriminal said:

Max can't race.

He either crashes into the other driver or forces them off the track.

He will have records but doesn't deserve to be put in the same breath as Schumi or Alonso or senna

I agree he can't race wheel to wheel. But ironically he is in the same breath as Michael and Ayrton in the "I'm putting my car there and if you dont avoid me, we'll crash"


Theres a video on YT of Hamilton saying he "treats Max differently when racing wheel to wheel" and then they ask Seb the same question and he just agrees with Lewis. Thats telling.

I can genuinely imagine a moment for Max before the end of his career, where he'll literally T bone his title competitor to win the title. I simply cant think of any champ from the last 30 years (aside from the aforementioned) that would do that.

If you drove like Max drives now <90s you'd be dead.

[HustleRussell]

520TORQUES said:

HustleRussell said:

1,600 posts

Literally the biggest race weekend thread of the season

Of course according to PH and Max Verstappen the Las Vegas Grand Prix is an empty event- officially the moment F1 jumped the shark.

There is not a better image to illustrate the mighty about-turn than Max Verstappen wearing an Elvis themed race suit and literally singing 'Viva Las Vegas' down the radio

Divide that by 2, the thread was started a week earlier than usual and the post count reflects that.

I don't think that follows. This is the Las Vegas Grand Prix thread which has remained as 'on-topic' as any other Grands Prix thread... Conversation about events earlier in the season continued in the Brazil thread, the most recent post there being only yesterday...

[520TORQUES]

HustleRussell said:

I don't think that follows. This is the Las Vegas Grand Prix thread which has remained as 'on-topic' as any other Grands Prix thread... Conversation about events earlier in the season continued in the Brazil thread, the most recent post there being only yesterday...

1/4 of the posts were made before a car turned a wheel, 1/4 of the posts were discussing the st show of FP1/2, in most other threads we don't have those factors.

I would suggest the thread content relating to the race and qualy was much the same as any other race thread.

Like all these new events, year 2/3 tends to show you the real picture of how popular an event is.

[HustleRussell]

I'm not really trying to make a point here, I'm just taking the mick out of all the people who were protesting that the event is not interesting, was due a boycott, and was doomed... It's the fifth of six dead rubbers, it was in the wrong time zone, and this thread has seen more engagement than any other Grand Prix thread this season.

[mk1coopers]

HustleRussell said:

1,600 posts

Literally the biggest race weekend thread of the season

Of course according to PH and Max Verstappen the Las Vegas Grand Prix is an empty event- officially the moment F1 jumped the shark.

There is not a better image to illustrate the mighty about-turn than Max Verstappen wearing an Elvis themed race suit and literally singing 'Viva Las Vegas' down the radio

I'm not sure if it was 100% spoken about as an 'empty event', personally for me, it was an event that was held in a location that is definitely 'all about the show', rather than the sporting event, much more than anywhere F1 has been before, excluding the fact that it had been there twice in the 80's, which weren't Liberty events.

The race was quite good, mainly because of the unpredictability of the new track, everyone was starting from scratch, the many comments on 'Vegas Bingo' were quite accurate, way before the event took place, during the coverage most of them were ticked off, you could even imagine SKY looking at the thread, then saying to themselves, that's a good idea, because some of the predictions were that spot on.

The venue, as others do, all suffer from some stereotyping from either years of going there, who's not going to predict seeing someone in a home made F1 car hat in Japan, swathes of Red in Italy, or orange smoke in Holland, or from peoples knowledge of the location the race will be held, with Vegas, it became clear, very early on, that lots of us had been there, plus we are used to the SKY style of coverage, hence the predictability of the 'show' surrounding the event.

I'm still not sure why Danica decided to dress up as a low budget Dalek, or why we had a Poundland copy of Keanu Reeves reading out the lyrics at the start of the race, however, what we saw on track was reasonable, and I'm sure that what we will see next year will be a more polished version of 2023, Liberty did achieve their goal though, we all talked about Las Vegas and F1

[PhilAsia]

Tim the pool man said:

PhilAsia said:

Yep unfortunately that's about it.
If you expect me to defend simply stating a fact perhaps you'd like to point out the error?

Ignore it...

[520TORQUES]

HustleRussell said:

I'm not really trying to make a point here, I'm just taking the mick out of all the people who were protesting that the event is not interesting, was due a boycott, and was doomed... It's the fifth of six dead rubbers, it was in the wrong time zone, and this thread has seen more engagement than any other Grand Prix thread this season.

Was due a boycott and doomed?

You always get a spike in posts for a new event and you always get a spike in posts when something controversial happens, it's not a reflection on the quality or potential status of an event.

Spa and the British GP have similar numbers of posts as this thread, Spa 2021 thread has 500 more posts, AD21 has 8500 more posts, cant think why.

[PhilAsia]

520TORQUES said:

HustleRussell said:

I'm not really trying to make a point here, I'm just taking the mick out of all the people who were protesting that the event is not interesting, was due a boycott, and was doomed... It's the fifth of six dead rubbers, it was in the wrong time zone, and this thread has seen more engagement than any other Grand Prix thread this season.

Was due a boycott and doomed?

You always get a spike in posts for a new event and you always get a spike in posts when something controversial happens, it's not a reflection on the quality or potential status of an event.

Spa and the British GP have similar numbers of posts as this thread, Spa 2021 thread has 500 more posts, AD21 has 8500 more posts, cant think why.

And you're certainly not allowed to mention why...

[NRS]

TheDeuce said:

GR actually drove into Max's line as he didn't see him. He has since acknowledged he didn't see him and the penalty is fair.

Don’t get me wrong, I called it as a racing incident at the time, but I do wonder in some ways how Russell got a penalty there. I think he was around 1/2 car ahead of Verstappen in the corner, so although he turned into Verstappen is it not equal fault as I don’t think Russell had anywhere else to go (would love an aerial shot to see if Russell had more space on the outside/Max had more space on the inside).

Verstappen never left enough space for the car in front of him to make the corner properly? Russell never looked and hit another car. Equal liability, and so a racing incident and no penalty for either?

[NRS]

HustleRussell said:

I'm not really trying to make a point here, I'm just taking the mick out of all the people who were protesting that the event is not interesting, was due a boycott, and was doomed... It's the fifth of six dead rubbers, it was in the wrong time zone, and this thread has seen more engagement than any other Grand Prix thread this season.

I was negative before it, not because it’s Vegas, but due to the big risk of it being rubbish due to the temps. In the end JSF was right and it wasn’t nearly such a big issue. Perhaps partly because it warmed up. If it had been the 5C or so then it could/probably would have been a massive embarrassment for F1 as cars slide off all over the place and we get lots of SC’s or red flags. Instead we got a very low grip circuit and temps that made the tyres turn on/off quite easily and resulted in random performance changes quite quickly, meaning more passes. Pretty much the perfect situation for a race to vary and be interesting.

[TheDeuce]

NRS said:

TheDeuce said:

GR actually drove into Max's line as he didn't see him. He has since acknowledged he didn't see him and the penalty is fair.

Don’t get me wrong, I called it as a racing incident at the time, but I do wonder in some ways how Russell got a penalty there. I think he was around 1/2 car ahead of Verstappen in the corner, so although he turned into Verstappen is it not equal fault as I don’t think Russell had anywhere else to go (would love an aerial shot to see if Russell had more space on the outside/Max had more space on the inside).

Verstappen never left enough space for the car in front of him to make the corner properly? Russell never looked and hit another car. Equal liability, and so a racing incident and no penalty for either?

The views shown weren't great - if you hunt for one you'll perhaps find a better one now.

But the conclusion at the time seemed to be that MV did leave a cars width and therefore GR could have made the corner without turning into MV - which is all that matters in terms of the penalty. The fact he didn't know MV was there makes the mistake understandable, but still the penalty is justified.

The fact the driver and team accept there was fault and didn't complain at the penalty pretty much confirms that all available evidence points to it being a slam-dunk.

[StevieBee]

Am I alone in thinking that the aesthetics we're quite as spectacular as had been imagined?

Given that Vegas is all neon and lights and stuff, I'd rather hoped that would in some way translate to the circuit yet for the most part, it looked like it was running through the industrial district.

[EmailAddress]

StevieBee said:

Am I alone in thinking that the aesthetics we're quite as spectacular as had been imagined?

Given that Vegas is all neon and lights and stuff, I'd rather hoped that would in some way translate to the circuit yet for the most part, it looked like it was running through the industrial district.

What we hoped:


What we got:

[TheDeuce]

StevieBee said:

Am I alone in thinking that the aesthetics we're quite as spectacular as had been imagined?

Given that Vegas is all neon and lights and stuff, I'd rather hoped that would in some way translate to the circuit yet for the most part, it looked like it was running through the industrial district.

It's a shame but the catch fencing is required and does make street circuits look like a tunnel these days - especially at night. Monaco looks great as it's during the day and the fencing largely become unnoticeable.

The helicopter shots were pretty good at least, probably no coincidence they put on two helicopters for this one.

[BunkMoreland]

TheDeuce said:

It's a shame but the catch fencing is required and does make street circuits look like a tunnel these days - especially at night. Monaco looks great as it's during the day and the fencing largely become unnoticeable.

The helicopter shots were pretty good at least, probably no coincidence they put on two helicopters for this one.

Just some ideas

Paint all the catch fencing black to make it blend in?
Reduce on track lighting, (its virtual day light) and fit cars with neon lighting?
More floodlights pointing at buildings, landmarks to highlight them?

Le Mans is obviously a different thing, but it seems to get the balance right. So a bit of tweaking here and there for Vegas might be enough

Edited by BunkMoreland on Monday 20th November 18:06

[TheDeuce]

BunkMoreland said:

TheDeuce said:

It's a shame but the catch fencing is required and does make street circuits look like a tunnel these days - especially at night. Monaco looks great as it's during the day and the fencing largely become unnoticeable.

The helicopter shots were pretty good at least, probably no coincidence they put on two helicopters for this one.

Just some ideas

Paint all the catch fencing black to make it blend in?
Reduce on track lighting, and fit cars with neon lighting?
More floodlights pointing at buildings, landmarks to highlight them

Painting catch fencing black is actually a really good idea - matte black ideally (I work in the film industry and we paint everything matte black if we want it 'gone')

No chance of fitting the cars with neon lighting!

I expect that now this first even is run, the casinos will be looking at the footage to work out what changes they can make to become more visible. I also think it's likely that temporary casino/hotel brand signage could be more tightly incorporated with the circuit for a price. These things need time to evolve but it goes without saying that making it look 'more Vegas' has a value and therefore the relevant people will be thinking about how to achieve it.