Sebastian Vettel
Discussion
LM240 said:
It is such a shame the ferrari dream didn’t come true. I truly hoped for a Schumacher mkII.
However, when it came to the crunch he made too many errors and threw away his chances.
He had his chance and it hasn’t worked out. On this occasion I think it was time to seek out a new direction for the team... maybe even a year or two sooner would have been better!
The way Schumacher exited I thought was a disgrace after everything he’d done for the team.
The Ferrari of recent years isn’t the Ferrari that Schumacher, Todt and Brawn built. Not by a long chalk However, when it came to the crunch he made too many errors and threw away his chances.
He had his chance and it hasn’t worked out. On this occasion I think it was time to seek out a new direction for the team... maybe even a year or two sooner would have been better!
The way Schumacher exited I thought was a disgrace after everything he’d done for the team.
Maybe Vettel's biggest mistake was thinking that it was.
I wouldn't put Vettel on the same level as Alonso or Hamilton, however he's clearly very, very talented. One of those drivers who spends much of the race thinking outside of the race car. It's no coincidence that he's always been good at overcoming cock ups (by him or the team) and ending further up the field than a middling driver would have done.
It'll be a sad moment when F1 has an Ocon, Kvyat and Gasly on the grid ahead of someone like Vettel.
It'll be a sad moment when F1 has an Ocon, Kvyat and Gasly on the grid ahead of someone like Vettel.
Horace Van Khute said:
vaud said:
I disagree. His style suited the heavily blown RB. He was very quick - even Webber - who was no slouch was clear that Vettel was the faster driver.
You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
What about 1 WDC?You could argue that he hasn't been able to adapt his driving style to the new era cars, but luck doesn't get you 4 x WDCs.
I would say that was a pretty lucky WDC for Rosberg?
On the question; if you win or lose a championship on the basis of one specific event at one specific race, that is entirely out your control, I think that's possibly the definition of luck.
The nature of a championship over a number of rounds should mean neither you nor your competitors are in a position at the end to win it due to luck alone, however a single piece of luck can determine an outcome one way or the other. Those are the fine margins that can determine the winner where two or more have performed at an equal level throughout.
The nature of a championship over a number of rounds should mean neither you nor your competitors are in a position at the end to win it due to luck alone, however a single piece of luck can determine an outcome one way or the other. Those are the fine margins that can determine the winner where two or more have performed at an equal level throughout.
Frimley111R said:
The key difference is that I hardly remember JB making any mistakes whereas all we seem to see is SV making error after error. it's not doing his rep any good and its easy to see why Ferrari ditched him.
Despite his lucky timing at RB he is a top driver, just not one as good as 4 titles suggest.
Buttons epic win in Canada where he came from the back had Vettel throwing away the win with a half spin at the end. Despite his lucky timing at RB he is a top driver, just not one as good as 4 titles suggest.
Someone should do a Vettel spin compilation.
jsf said:
Riciardo spanking him was the emperors new clothes moment.
Do you think it was Vettel's talent deficiency being exposed, or his motivation and reliability issues? I can only think of 2014 and last year when Vettel was out-qualified by a team mate, which is not bad form since 2007.How many seasons out of 13 or so has Vettel been outscored by his team mate?
I don't think Hamilton has always outscored his team mates but I don't see him being labelled as a fraud.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Do you think it was Vettel's talent deficiency being exposed, or his motivation and reliability issues? I can only think of 2014 and last year when Vettel was out-qualified by a team mate, which is not bad form since 2007.
How many seasons out of 13 or so has Vettel been outscored by his team mate?
I don't think Hamilton has always outscored his team mates but I don't see him being labelled as a fraud.
I've never rated Vettel as a top line driver like Prost or Senna. 2014 if not an expose of his best talent, certainly was the season that killed his reputation. How many seasons out of 13 or so has Vettel been outscored by his team mate?
I don't think Hamilton has always outscored his team mates but I don't see him being labelled as a fraud.
Hamilton has been blisteringly quick every season, he lost his head for a while whilst messing with a pussy cat, but even with an inferior car managed to win races.
TheDeuce said:
Quite. And now LeClerc..
The German GP unforced crash was a big moment for him no doubt, but also one of endless moments that must have slightly but significantly increased his level of self doubt. Self doubt isn't good for a racer.
Last race was interesting, he spun. If you watch carefully though he started to spin under (very) late breaking, ahead of the contact which ultimately completed that spin - he must have known the move was high risk and would take near perfect braking and accuracy to not mess it up. Did he mess it up due to worrying about messing it up?
He messed it up because he is crap in an inferior car. He'll throw it off again this year.The German GP unforced crash was a big moment for him no doubt, but also one of endless moments that must have slightly but significantly increased his level of self doubt. Self doubt isn't good for a racer.
Last race was interesting, he spun. If you watch carefully though he started to spin under (very) late breaking, ahead of the contact which ultimately completed that spin - he must have known the move was high risk and would take near perfect braking and accuracy to not mess it up. Did he mess it up due to worrying about messing it up?
CanoeSniffer said:
On track.. yeah he’s been pretty dubious for a while.
Off track, he may be the most likeable, intelligent and refreshingly honest driver in the paddock.
I don’t have much faith in him to bring anything outstanding to the car any more, but he brings something to the paddock and show in general that will be missed, there’s no value in a bunch of sponsor-polished ‘woke’ PC robots trotting out the same old s
te race in race out.
Russell and Norris are pretty good in not being drones out of the car, I'd say more have a personality than not this season.Off track, he may be the most likeable, intelligent and refreshingly honest driver in the paddock.
I don’t have much faith in him to bring anything outstanding to the car any more, but he brings something to the paddock and show in general that will be missed, there’s no value in a bunch of sponsor-polished ‘woke’ PC robots trotting out the same old s
te race in race out.LaurasOtherHalf said:
TheDeuce said:
Seb back to RB...? Maybe that would make a grain of sense if RB were short on sponsors and if Albon wasn't looking so promising! But they're not short of sponsorship and Albon looks like a fantastic investment for the future.
I think most of these rumours come down to nothing more than people simply not wanting seb to leave.
Of course he DID meet with Horner and Marko so possibly something is going on.. it doesn't necessarily mean it's a seat in the car though. Or quite possibly it was just a social given he won them 4 titles and him (probably) leaving is big news to those close to him.
Id like to see him and max together actually, they’d make an entertaining team especially with Horner at the helm!I think most of these rumours come down to nothing more than people simply not wanting seb to leave.
Of course he DID meet with Horner and Marko so possibly something is going on.. it doesn't necessarily mean it's a seat in the car though. Or quite possibly it was just a social given he won them 4 titles and him (probably) leaving is big news to those close to him.
Albon? He’s Torro Rosso material at best. He’s a mile away from max on times and a couple of good safety car strategy decisions by his team does not a racing genius make.
Is he any closer to max in session times than Gasly was last year?
He’s also had two very good chances to win/podium now and binned both opportunities. In a car his team mate has consistently shown is capable of wins.
TheDeuce said:
To follow up this... Horner just confirmed during FP1 that vettel is definitely not going to RB, they are committed to Max and Albon. So Albon for next year is all but confirmed too - unless he screws up of course.
That's Horner's position right now. By the end of FP1 it could be totally different. We should know by now there is no point in listening to Horner.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff