Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
I've been criticised before on this forum for my views on Hamilton, but I'm finding it virtually impossible to see Nico's perhaps inevitable WDC this year as a paper championship for a plastic champion. If neither of the Mercs had reliability issues, where would Nico be? Keep in mind for all of Ham's troubles, Nico has had only a single gearbox problem that only resulted into a penalty of 1 place after the race. Despite his misfortunes, Hamilton has been able to keep the fight up with Nico - if Nico had Hamilton's mechanical woes this year, he'd be absolutely buried by now.
It seems some people hate Hamilton so much they will weave any sort of narrative they can in order to discredit him.
It seems some people hate Hamilton so much they will weave any sort of narrative they can in order to discredit him.
Biker 1 said:
I suppose the follow up question is: who is the typical F1 fan, either watching TV or going to the races? My guess, & its only a guess, is that the 'rapperz from da hood' are not massive fans.
Whatever, LH appears to be a very Marmite character, at least judging by this forum. I can't stand him, doubtless others think the sun shines out of his arse.....
You don't have to like him. I don't particularly like Lewis the personality, but I do like Lewis the driver. It depends if we want to follow F1 as motorsport or some sort of weird celebrity big brother (which I really can't stand). Whatever, LH appears to be a very Marmite character, at least judging by this forum. I can't stand him, doubtless others think the sun shines out of his arse.....
And the general expectation that Lewis (and all the drivers) should fit a pretty narrow stereotype is a little odd. But there are enough who do fit this mould. Lewis doesn't, and that shouldn't be a bad thing... To extrapolate your point, maybe F1 is keen to try and broaden its appeal and is keen to have some drivers who might connect with a different group?
Look at MotoGP and who different the key players are there.... I can understand anyone not liking Rossi, Jorge or Marc for behavior / personality traits, but we're privileged to see them on track together.
Hamilton's weekend went wrong after his phone conference.
He must have know the press would attack him after doing this so you really have to wonder why he would put this pressure on himself with daft actions.
I am sure many would expect Max Verstappen to be the driver doing these things when he is only 17 years of age instead of a 31 year old three time World Champion.
Unfortunately you will never win if you get certain aspects of the press against you. It was clear when Lewis walked out of the press conference on Saturday that it was in his head.
He then messed up on the grid which in turn cost him a race win.
Lewis was lucky Ferrari strategy team were still in bed as getting past Vettel in the pitstops gave him a huge advantage and the chance of 2nd place.
It was a very interesting weekend but things are far from over yet.
Might be best for Lewis to keep a low profile until the next GP in two weeks time. Let the press calm down
He must have know the press would attack him after doing this so you really have to wonder why he would put this pressure on himself with daft actions.
I am sure many would expect Max Verstappen to be the driver doing these things when he is only 17 years of age instead of a 31 year old three time World Champion.
Unfortunately you will never win if you get certain aspects of the press against you. It was clear when Lewis walked out of the press conference on Saturday that it was in his head.
He then messed up on the grid which in turn cost him a race win.
Lewis was lucky Ferrari strategy team were still in bed as getting past Vettel in the pitstops gave him a huge advantage and the chance of 2nd place.
It was a very interesting weekend but things are far from over yet.
Might be best for Lewis to keep a low profile until the next GP in two weeks time. Let the press calm down
Mastodon2 said:
I've been criticised before on this forum for my views on Hamilton, but I'm finding it virtually impossible to see Nico's perhaps inevitable WDC this year as a paper championship for a plastic champion. If neither of the Mercs had reliability issues, where would Nico be? Keep in mind for all of Ham's troubles, Nico has had only a single gearbox problem that only resulted into a penalty of 1 place after the race. Despite his misfortunes, Hamilton has been able to keep the fight up with Nico - if Nico had Hamilton's mechanical woes this year, he'd be absolutely buried by now.
It seems some people hate Hamilton so much they will weave any sort of narrative they can in order to discredit him.
You're the one weaving a narrative here It seems some people hate Hamilton so much they will weave any sort of narrative they can in order to discredit him.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Hamilton's weekend went wrong after his phone conference.
He must have know the press would attack him after doing this so you really have to wonder why he would put this pressure on himself with daft actions.
I am sure many would expect Max Verstappen to be the driver doing these things when he is only 17 years of age instead of a 31 year old three time World Champion.
Unfortunately you will never win if you get certain aspects of the press against you. It was clear when Lewis walked out of the press conference on Saturday that it was in his head.
He then messed up on the grid which in turn cost him a race win.
Lewis was lucky Ferrari strategy team were still in bed as getting past Vettel in the pitstops gave him a huge advantage and the chance of 2nd place.
It was a very interesting weekend but things are far from over yet.
Might be best for Lewis to keep a low profile until the next GP in two weeks time. Let the press calm down
I thought he seemed very calm and composed when he walked out. Can't believe for one minute that the press boys on their jolly were part of his poor start - I can 100% believe he was concerned at the damp patches and probably over thought the launch.He must have know the press would attack him after doing this so you really have to wonder why he would put this pressure on himself with daft actions.
I am sure many would expect Max Verstappen to be the driver doing these things when he is only 17 years of age instead of a 31 year old three time World Champion.
Unfortunately you will never win if you get certain aspects of the press against you. It was clear when Lewis walked out of the press conference on Saturday that it was in his head.
He then messed up on the grid which in turn cost him a race win.
Lewis was lucky Ferrari strategy team were still in bed as getting past Vettel in the pitstops gave him a huge advantage and the chance of 2nd place.
It was a very interesting weekend but things are far from over yet.
Might be best for Lewis to keep a low profile until the next GP in two weeks time. Let the press calm down
You're right about strategy, it all worked out very well for him and he seemed to again be pretty composed in the interviews after the podium and in the pits.
We're going to have to agree to disagree on the right and wrongs of the Thursday press conference. It's a nothing. And in the age of social media (which he is pretty clued up on - topically enough) the press don't have anything like the influence they like to think.... They're still living in the old days when drivers womanising, smoking and drinking - turning up for a drive hungover - was seen as a good thing by many on here. Let it go, it's the past.
Finally, if he was a messed up as you claim, would he have stopped the Merc appeal against Max....?
Mastodon2 said:
It seems some people hate Hamilton so much they will weave any sort of narrative they can in order to discredit him.
'twas ever thus.Nico actually had a superb, flawless weekend, if his lead had been built on these and not lewis car keep popping and some jammy luck - I dont see why he garnered so much praise for last week, he was lucky 3 times with an optomistic swoop at T1 not ending his race (not saying it was his blame so much as he could have used more caution at T1), clattering past kimi maldonardo stylee then picking up an ultimately worthless penalty... romps home in 3rd to cash some quality points while lewis superb flawless weekend gives him a dnf. That sums up 2016 for me.
Lewis needs to get tactical and try to get nico "no spatial awareness" rosberg and max "leeroy jenkins" verstrappon on the same piece of track together. I was thinking with lewis not backing mercs appeal he was gonna get his gangsta mates to sort out max but maybe he has other plans...
Edited by hairyben on Sunday 9th October 17:31
It's hard to argue that Lewis is one of the greats when he's coming second in a two horse race, even taking into account his mechanical issues there have been plenty of occasions this season when Rosberg has beaten him fair and square, today for instance, and prior to having a car that's substantially faster than the competition there was nothing to mark Rosberg out as anything special. With the car advantage Mercedes have Schumacher or Senna would have won every race they finished, leaving their team mate to win the rest.
Imo, all that can be said of Hamilton is that, on his day, he's faster than Rosberg and probably faster than Button, but only just.
Imo, all that can be said of Hamilton is that, on his day, he's faster than Rosberg and probably faster than Button, but only just.
The problem I see is that people will call Nico a "plastic champion" as some one did above and suggest he's unworthy. But how can you say that and not pass a thought at Lewis being a twice champion with only one other driver to ever beat, who is low and behold the 'plastic champion" in waiting...
Surely both Nico and Lewis are pretty much worthy WDC or neither are?
Both are lucky to be in the best cars by a mile both really are only fighting each other, plus their own mistakes and Mercs.
If people catch them or they drop back Merc just offer them a power boost engine map like today with Vettel.
Look at the records Nico is suddenly stacking up now, it's nuts really, but he is in the same car as Lewis so why should Nico's results be any less well deserved?
I'm not a fan of any driver, just love the sport, but Nico can't really win, if someones engine blows up or whatever should you park it and give up those points?
Surely both Nico and Lewis are pretty much worthy WDC or neither are?
Both are lucky to be in the best cars by a mile both really are only fighting each other, plus their own mistakes and Mercs.
If people catch them or they drop back Merc just offer them a power boost engine map like today with Vettel.
Look at the records Nico is suddenly stacking up now, it's nuts really, but he is in the same car as Lewis so why should Nico's results be any less well deserved?
I'm not a fan of any driver, just love the sport, but Nico can't really win, if someones engine blows up or whatever should you park it and give up those points?
RYH64E said:
It's hard to argue that Lewis is one of the greats when he's coming second in a two horse race, even taking into account his mechanical issues there have been plenty of occasions this season when Rosberg has beaten him fair and square, today for instance, and prior to having a car that's substantially faster than the competition there was nothing to mark Rosberg out as anything special. With the car advantage Mercedes have Schumacher or Senna would have won every race they finished, leaving their team mate to win the rest.
Imo, all that can be said of Hamilton is that, on his day, he's faster than Rosberg and probably faster than Button, but only just.
I understand what you're saying, but when you say Schumacher would have won every race they finished you do mean Ralf Schumacher I presume, since Rosberg beat his brother in points when they were in the same car? Yes, it was when he came back, but again you can only beat what is against you.Imo, all that can be said of Hamilton is that, on his day, he's faster than Rosberg and probably faster than Button, but only just.
I think too much is put down to drivers being better or worse than each other, when often it is actually who does the car suit in terms of driving style, feel etc. You can see it clearly with Vettel - who I would probably regard as being like Rosberg but a bit better/ more extreme. If Vettel has the right car he is very very difficult to beat from the front. If it's not the way he wants he will struggle (against Ricciardo, Kimi now for example). However I think he's better in wheel to wheel racing that Rosberg. Rosberg I think is a bit more flexible in how he adapts to a car, but isn't as good as someone like Hamilton or Alonso when the car is not so great. But put Rosberg in the front and generally he is pretty decent at leading from there (unless put under some pressure when he tends to collapse sometimes). He's got pretty poor racecraft in wheel to wheel racing. Kimi and Button again in the type of driver than needs a correct car, but can do very well when they have it. Hamliton and Alonso can drive around problems more, but can be a bit more emotional and more up and down sometimes which affects their driving.
Hungrymc said:
Look at MotoGP and who different the key players are there.... I can understand anyone not liking Rossi, Jorge or Marc for behavior / personality traits, but we're privileged to see them on track together.
Ahhh.... Lets not forget that if a Moto GP rider cocks it up, he risks serious injury & there is no second chance after an 'off'. If you get it wrong in F1??I appreciate that F1 drivers are undoubtedly extremely skilled, & have some sort of 6th sense in terms of reflexes, but FFS, its like some sort of pathetic shadow of what it once was, & LH, in my view, exemplifies all that is rotten, along with Ecclestone & the rest. Such a dull spectacle.
Biker 1 said:
Ahhh.... Lets not forget that if a Moto GP rider cocks it up, he risks serious injury & there is no second chance after an 'off'. If you get it wrong in F1??
I appreciate that F1 drivers are undoubtedly extremely skilled, & have some sort of 6th sense in terms of reflexes, but FFS, its like some sort of pathetic shadow of what it once was, & LH, in my view, exemplifies all that is rotten, along with Ecclestone & the rest. Such a dull spectacle.
So the element of potential injury to the participants is what makes it fun for you?I appreciate that F1 drivers are undoubtedly extremely skilled, & have some sort of 6th sense in terms of reflexes, but FFS, its like some sort of pathetic shadow of what it once was, & LH, in my view, exemplifies all that is rotten, along with Ecclestone & the rest. Such a dull spectacle.
Can I suggest MMA as an alternative? Motorsport doesn't need "fans" like you.
Some Gump said:
So the element of potential injury to the participants is what makes it fun for you?
.
.
Nope.The potential for some sort of second chance, partly due to risk, & partly due to those ridiculous run-off areas of modern F1 tracks. Oh, & DRS, tyres that 'fall off a cliff', the commentator saying that it was better strategy to 'gain track position in the pits' rather than actually overtaking.......
I gave up watching this 'sport' a while back, but having seen the LH news item, & not having anything better to do this afternoon, I decided to watch the 'race' on C4. I nodded off......
Edited by Biker 1 on Sunday 9th October 22:31
Some Gump said:
So the element of potential injury to the participants is what makes it fun for you?
Can I suggest MMA as an alternative? Motorsport doesn't need "fans" like you.
Don't think that's what he was getting at.Can I suggest MMA as an alternative? Motorsport doesn't need "fans" like you.
Look at the Hamilton mistake today - at many tracks in the past, that would have put you into the gravel and your race would have been over. Today's tracks have massive, abrasive tarmac, run-offs, meaning mistakes go largely unpunished.
It would be really interesting to see what a driver of today would make of racing a late 80s car on a late 80s track. It would probably terrify them.
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