Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[I Like Tea]

TheDeuce said:

But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time

Yes I agree we are products of our time, but you can’t guarantee that the drivers from previous eras, if growing up now, would have the bandwidth to step up to the current mental load. However, you can be certain the modern era drivers can step down.

[TheDeuce]

I Like Tea said:

TheDeuce said:

But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time

Yes I agree we are products of our time, but you can’t guarantee that the drivers from previous eras, if growing up now, would have the bandwidth to step up to the current mental load. However, you can be certain the modern era drivers can step down.

You're right if we imagine a time machine, and dragging the past drivers forward a few decades - dropping them rudely in to today's world. But if they had been born at the same time as Lewis they would have had the same modern benefits, their applicable skills as drivers could have been pushed further. Senna took advantage of all he could back in his day - were he to start 20 years later he would have taken advantage of all the same training, diet, mental coaching and simulator time that Lewis has.

The point being that any driver, from any time period, if dropped in to another will always seek any advantage or improvement they can. in 2020 the cars are superior mechanically to 1990. Likewise the 'production' of drivers is also superior. We make better drivers in 2020, because we've gotten better at making drivers.

[I Like Tea]

TheDeuce said:

I Like Tea said:

TheDeuce said:

But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time

Yes I agree we are products of our time, but you can’t guarantee that the drivers from previous eras, if growing up now, would have the bandwidth to step up to the current mental load. However, you can be certain the modern era drivers can step down.

You're right if we imagine a time machine, and dragging the past drivers forward a few decades - dropping them rudely in to today's world. But if they had been born at the same time as Lewis they would have had the same modern benefits, their applicable skills as drivers could have been pushed further. Senna took advantage of all he could back in his day - were he to start 20 years later he would have taken advantage of all the same training, diet, mental coaching and simulator time that Lewis has.

The point being that any driver, from any time period, if dropped in to another will always seek any advantage or improvement they can. in 2020 the cars are superior mechanically to 1990. Likewise the 'production' of drivers is also superior. We make better drivers in 2020, because we've gotten better at making drivers.

My point is a nature v’s nurture thing. I’m okay at maths and physics but you could teach me quantum mechanics for the next decade and I’m fairly confident I would never get it. Same with old v’s modern F1 cars, the bar for mental load has been raised and some drivers from earlier eras just won’t be able to cope, they won’t have the processing capacity. Whereas Lewis could jump in an older car and would find the mental demands very low.

I am thinking about 1/100ths of seconds of performance here, I wouldn’t expect that Clark would jump in a modern F1 car and wobble off the track at the first corner!

Your last point about making better drivers was thought provoking, I’m sure if you had a big enough pool of the global population from the 60s, you could find and ‘make’ a driver as good as Lewis, it might not be Clark or Stewart though and they would probably be better than either.

[RB Will]

ch37 said:

Lewis taught me something today. He posted a picture which looked like some sort of horrific sci-fi future with loads of crabs lined up in a lab being drained of blue blood.

Happy to admit my first thought was 'oh Lewis, what nonsense is this?'

Then did my research and realised it's absolutely a thing and I've almost certainly benefited (indirectly) from that blue blood at some point in my life.

Assuming it was horseshoe crabs? In which case it’s probably for LAL testing. I’ve got one on my desk at work

[nickfrog]

I Like Tea said:

My point is a nature v’s nurture thing. I’m okay at maths and physics but you could teach me quantum mechanics for the next decade and I’m fairly confident I would never get it. Same with old v’s modern F1 cars, the bar for mental load has been raised and some drivers from earlier eras just won’t be able to cope, they won’t have the processing capacity. Whereas Lewis could jump in an older car and would find the mental demands very low.

I agree. And even if the conclusion is still "we don't know", then ruling out Ham as the (potential) GOAT like Stewart does is absurd.

"We don't know" seems the only rational outcome where everyone can agree rather than "it's definitely not Ham".

[Mr Tidy]

nickfrog said:

I agree. And even if the conclusion is still "we don't know", then ruling out Ham as the (potential) GOAT like Stewart does is absurd.

"We don't know" seems the only rational outcome where everyone can agree rather than "it's definitely not Ham".

JS just comes across as an arrogant, gobby, lucky Tartan tw*t!

Jim Clark had way more talent until things sadly went wrong.

I just hope LH gets his 7th title - partly because I'm a fan, but equally because it might finallly make 2nd-raters like JS STFU!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-hamilton-sees-i...


Good article and the full Hamilton quote from which the comments about Stewart came from.

[kiseca]

I Like Tea said:

TheDeuce said:

But if they were driving today they would have grown up in the same generation as Lewis and would be used to the modern pace of life in general, along with the same standards in training etc...

All drivers, all of us in general, are products of our time

Yes I agree we are products of our time, but you can’t guarantee that the drivers from previous eras, if growing up now, would have the bandwidth to step up to the current mental load. However, you can be certain the modern era drivers can step down.

You also can't guarantee that modern drivers would be able to put up with the mental load of watching three of their compatriots die every season, or be willing to push a car to the limits that his predecessors did in face of such danger.

They had a different kind of stress back then, and since the human brain hasn't evolved significantly since 1950, I can't see why the old generation couldn't cope with today's workload either, if given the same training and practice since childhood that modern drivers get.

Neither way is a guarantee.

Edited by kiseca on Monday 19th October 07:45

[Polite M135 driver]

We did see all of the F1 drivers all go out and race the day after one of their compatriots died last year.

[kiseca]

Polite M135 driver said:

We did see all of the F1 drivers all go out and race the day after one of their compatriots died last year.

Most people will go back to work the day after one of their colleagues dies too. But that's not three or four a year. A few drivers in the '50s, '60s and '70s retired because they didn't want their luck to run out. The last one I know of who retired because of safety worries was Damon Hill, what, 20 years ago?

It's obviously not a factor in the sport now like it was then.

Anyway, my point is, the conditions have changed a lot and I disagree that we can say that a successful driver of today would have been guaranteed success in the 1960s any more than we can say those drivers would have succeeded today. It's impossible to say until someone manages to teleport a baby Lewis to 1940 and a baby Jim Clark to..... well, last week by modern driver age standards

[Drawweight]

kiseca said:

You also can't guarantee that modern drivers would be able to put up with the mental load of watching three of their compatriots die every season, or be willing to push a car to the limits that his predecessors did in face of such danger.

They had a different kind of stress back then, and since the human brain hasn't evolved significantly since 1950, I can't see why the old generation couldn't cope with today's workload either, if given the same training and practice since childhood that modern drivers get.

Neither way is a guarantee.

Edited by kiseca on Monday 19th October 07:45

My opinion is the modern racer would be able to handle that mental load in the same way that the older generation did.

You only have to look at the modern TT races where unfortunately fatalities are a fact of racing on a road circuit.

They accept the risks and carry on in the same way they have since the first fatality. That’s not to say every current driver would do so but then they wouldn’t be in F1 and someone else who can accept those risks would be sitting in their seat.

[vaud]

Aside from drivers, sponsors wouldn't accept multiple drivers dying in cars with their logos on.

TT is a niche event.

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle. which includes reasonable safety measures.

[nickfrog]

Mr Tidy said:

I just hope LH gets his 7th title - partly because I'm a fan, but equally because it might finallly make 2nd-raters like JS STFU!

We can live in hope but the minute he STFU then Jacques Villeneuve will take over . Now, that's proper bitter.

[rob.e]

what a great video - i think "soaking-wet-karting" should be a stand alone sport in its own right

his first race at that level, and he not only wins but completely dominates, in atrocious conditions, kart looks like its never going straight, just one continuous drift

[RB Will]

Kind of on topic.





I think the thing that stands out is the number of races and different classes ye olde drivers used to do. 85 different classes for Moss. Looking at Wiki Hamilton with a longer career has only been in about 12? Including various karts

[heebeegeetee]

Mr Tidy said:

JS just comes across as an arrogant, gobby, lucky Tartan tw*t!

Jim Clark had way more talent until things sadly went wrong.

I just hope LH gets his 7th title - partly because I'm a fan, but equally because it might finallly make 2nd-raters like JS STFU!

Lucky?! 2nd rate?

Hmm. Forgive me if I’m repeating myself: Stewart won 3x wdc and was runner up twice driving for Ken Tyrrell who operated his team from a wood yard. Apart from the odd race there was no Lotus, Ferrari, Cooper, Brabham, Mclaren, and no or very little input from Chapman or Enzo, no Forghieri, no Bruce, Jack or John.

To the best of my knowledge there was no significant success at Tyrrell before or after Stewart.

I don’t know how you know Jim was way more talented. I don’t want to take anything away from anybody but in Chapman Jim had unparalleled access to the sharpest mind by far in F1 at the time.

[Muzzer79]

heebeegeetee said:

Mr Tidy said:

JS just comes across as an arrogant, gobby, lucky Tartan tw*t!

Jim Clark had way more talent until things sadly went wrong.

I just hope LH gets his 7th title - partly because I'm a fan, but equally because it might finallly make 2nd-raters like JS STFU!

Lucky?! 2nd rate?

Hmm. Forgive me if I’m repeating myself: Stewart won 3x wdc and was runner up twice driving for Ken Tyrrell who operated his team from a wood yard. Apart from the odd race there was no Lotus, Ferrari, Cooper, Brabham, Mclaren, and no or very little input from Chapman or Enzo, no Forghieri, no Bruce, Jack or John.

To the best of my knowledge there was no significant success at Tyrrell before or after Stewart.

I don’t know how you know Jim was way more talented. I don’t want to take anything away from anybody but in Chapman Jim had unparalleled access to the sharpest mind by far in F1 at the time.

Much as he may be a bitter old fool, one can't deny Stewart's talent. In the early 70's, he really was the man - as you rightly specify.

Clark was clearly a huge talent though and I think it's wrong to lay too much credit at Chapman's feet for that. Clark demonstrated several times that he could win in anything - i.e Touring cars & the Indy 500.

[thegreenhell]

I think JYS earned the right to say whatever he wants about F1. I doubt he cares much about the opinion of a few nobodies arguing on an internet forum.

[paulguitar]

thegreenhell said:

I think JYS earned the right to say whatever he wants about F1. I doubt he cares much about the opinion of a few nobodies arguing on an internet forum.

I doubt he does either, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss why he sometimes spouts illogical views. I don't think anybody doubts his legacy or that of those that preceded him, so it's unnecessary for him to be insecure regarding Hamilton's achievements.

[vdn]

He’s definitely insecure, it’s been obvious for many years and also, a little odd.

When he says about the car but ignores the fact that the people he hails also found their way into the best cars, anyone can see he’s being disingenuous.

He also ignores and seemingly underestimates the sheer will to win needed to be so consistent over so many years. Merc engineers have said that Lewis can have had a perfect weekend but will still spend hours analysing the data, looking for perfection. Meanwhile, Max is pissing about on his jet whilst Leclerc and Norris are playing Playstation.